@toonturts Nobody ever said that about the Foot. They did an open pre-order to let people order as many as they wanted.
@toonturts Nobody ever said that about the Foot. They did an open pre-order to let people order as many as they wanted.
Yes, they let all the people order it that collected the line back then, but that was a fairly early time in the line when it came out, as it was the third ultimate release and we have had eighteen ultimate releases currently. Therefore many collectors haven't had an opportunity to get foot soldiers into their collection.
Therefore it would have made sense for this to be an evergreen army builder release, particularly if they were retiring the foot soldier two pack, (which it appears that they have). However that doesn't appear to be the case, so I am a tad sceptical that these ultimate pizza club turtles will be evergreen as well.
Also I don't think NECA have officially said that these Pizza Club turtles will be evergreen either, but there is an expectation from some collectors that they might be, similarly to how there likely would have been an expectation by some collectors that the ultimate foot soldier would have been evergreen back then, despite no official NECA declaration that they would be evergreen.
@toonturts Nobody ever said that about the Foot. They did an open pre-order to let people order as many as they wanted.
Yes, they let all the people order it that collected the line back then, but that was a fairly early time in the line when it came out, as it was the third ultimate release and we have had eighteen ultimate releases currently. Therefore many collectors haven't had an opportunity to get foot soldiers into their collection.
Therefore it would have made sense for this to be an evergreen army builder release, particularly if they were retiring the foot soldier two pack, (which it appears that they have). However that doesn't appear to be the case, so I am a tad sceptical that these ultimate pizza club turtles will be evergreen as well.
Also I don't think NECA have officially said that these Pizza Club turtles will be evergreen either, but there is an expectation from some collectors that they might be, similarly to how there likely would have been an expectation by some collectors that the ultimate foot soldier would have been evergreen back then, despite no official NECA declaration that they would be evergreen.
All of that was ASSUMPTIONS on the collector's part then, when NECA has never specifically stated as such. NONE of the toon stuff has been "evergreen" though. Some stuff will get rereleases once in a while, and some stuff tends to hang around due to lack of interest, but nothing has been repeatedly produced and shipped out to stores every 4 months or so.
I think there's also some baseline misunderstanding of what an 'evergreen' figure is in the action figure world - from the production/distribution side of things. To some collectors, 'evergreen' refers to an item that they can literally always buy for retail price from a retail location or specialty store. Like.. never sells out because it is in a constant state of replenishment.
While I understand how someone would connect the word 'evergreen' to this idea; it's wholly erroneous and massively illogical if one knows anything about toy production. You just can't do that. And it's not what toy companies think of as an evergreen item.
The 'Toon Turtles are an evergreen item. Flat out.
So is Black Series Darth Vader. WWE Shawn Michaels. Marvel Legends Wolverine. Todd McFarlane Batman. He-Man in any given He-Man-centric line.
These are characters that are -semi-regularly- available. Not -always- available. Huge and important difference. Companies recognize that, if they are going to have any chance of onboarding new collectors, they need to make certain characters often enough that new collectors aren't left out for too long. And in the grand cycle of toy-making, that can mean as little as once every year or two, or as often as twice a year or more. That's what 'evergreen' refers to.
What it doesn't refer to is an endless production cycle of the same figure. That would be absolute insanity.
But you can see it in action. We had the original boxed set 'toon turtles. Then the two-packs for regular retail release. Then the advertising/character bible colors four-pack. Then the Turtles in Disguise. Now the Pizza Club. Whatever legitimate complaints people have about NECA - They have put thought into getting the Turtles back out there regularly enough to get new people involved, without glutting up the stores to the point where the Turtles themselves are pegwarming everywhere and retailers don't want to order new product.
What I don't see much evidence of is NECA considering any other characters to be evergreen. One could argue that they've put some effort into keeping April semi-regular on the pegs, but there's arguments to be made against that. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more effort from them to keep Shredder at least half as available as the Turtles but there you go.
@toonturts Nobody ever said that about the Foot. They did an open pre-order to let people order as many as they wanted.
Yes, they let all the people order it that collected the line back then, but that was a fairly early time in the line when it came out, as it was the third ultimate release and we have had eighteen ultimate releases currently. Therefore many collectors haven't had an opportunity to get foot soldiers into their collection.
Therefore it would have made sense for this to be an evergreen army builder release, particularly if they were retiring the foot soldier two pack, (which it appears that they have). However that doesn't appear to be the case, so I am a tad sceptical that these ultimate pizza club turtles will be evergreen as well.
Also I don't think NECA have officially said that these Pizza Club turtles will be evergreen either, but there is an expectation from some collectors that they might be, similarly to how there likely would have been an expectation by some collectors that the ultimate foot soldier would have been evergreen back then, despite no official NECA declaration that they would be evergreen.
All of that was ASSUMPTIONS on the collector's part then, when NECA has never specifically stated as such. NONE of the toon stuff has been "evergreen" though. Some stuff will get rereleases once in a while, and some stuff tends to hang around due to lack of interest, but nothing has been repeatedly produced and shipped out to stores every 4 months or so.
Correct, this is assumptions, and based on some level of logic too, so when these assumptions aren't reflected in reality, it can seem like a head scratcher.
It will be interesting to see if these Pizza Club turtles are indeed evergreen, at the moment collectors are split on what they think will happen.
I think there's also some baseline misunderstanding of what an 'evergreen' figure is in the action figure world - from the production/distribution side of things. To some collectors, 'evergreen' refers to an item that they can literally always buy for retail price from a retail location or specialty store. Like.. never sells out because it is in a constant state of replenishment.
While I understand how someone would connect the word 'evergreen' to this idea; it's wholly erroneous and massively illogical if one knows anything about toy production. You just can't do that. And it's not what toy companies think of as an evergreen item.
The 'Toon Turtles are an evergreen item. Flat out.
So is Black Series Darth Vader. WWE Shawn Michaels. Marvel Legends Wolverine. Todd McFarlane Batman. He-Man in any given He-Man-centric line.These are characters that are -semi-regularly- available. Not -always- available. Huge and important difference. Companies recognize that, if they are going to have any chance of onboarding new collectors, they need to make certain characters often enough that new collectors aren't left out for too long. And in the grand cycle of toy-making, that can mean as little as once every year or two, or as often as twice a year or more. That's what 'evergreen' refers to.
What it doesn't refer to is an endless production cycle of the same figure. That would be absolute insanity.But you can see it in action. We had the original boxed set 'toon turtles. Then the two-packs for regular retail release. Then the advertising/character bible colors four-pack. Then the Turtles in Disguise. Now the Pizza Club. Whatever legitimate complaints people have about NECA - They have put thought into getting the Turtles back out there regularly enough to get new people involved, without glutting up the stores to the point where the Turtles themselves are pegwarming everywhere and retailers don't want to order new product.
What I don't see much evidence of is NECA considering any other characters to be evergreen. One could argue that they've put some effort into keeping April semi-regular on the pegs, but there's arguments to be made against that. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more effort from them to keep Shredder at least half as available as the Turtles but there you go.
I think when people use the term 'evergreen' they are talking about the figures being semi-regularly available, not available permanently on tap whenever someone wants them. I doubt anyone would seriously think that is possible.
I saw someone mention about the Pizza Club turtles perhaps being part of next year's Haulathon for example. That would count as 'evergreen' by most people's definition, even though technically the figures weren't available for the latter part of 2024.
I found all 4 PC Turtles this week at Target, meaning I overpaid by going through AliExpress. I really thought I wouldn't see all 4 at retail. To be fair it was only 1 Donatello.
Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more effort from them to keep Shredder at least half as available as the Turtles but there you go.
I feel like Trevor more than hinted at an Ultimate Shredder release in one of those interviews he was doing around SDCC last year.
And just how quickly DID the Bebop/Rocksteady 2-pack sell out on Target's site? I was very glad to get one for myself, but man the frantic screen-tapping and speed-reading to make sure I got an order through before sell-out is not something I look forward to experiencing again once PC Mikey goes up.
They sold out fast, but then it is always hard to tell how popular they were as how many copies did they have for sale etc.?
The 'Toon Turtles are an evergreen item. Flat out.These are characters that are -semi-regularly- available.
ROFL.
Oh look - we may have found one of those people that doesn't understand what 'evergreen' means to toy companies, even after it was literally explained in the post they're quoting.
If you think the regular cartoon turtles are "semi-regularly available" to purchase then you are completely out of touch with reality.
If you think the regular cartoon turtles are "semi-regularly available" to purchase then you are completely out of touch with reality.
Ignoring the touch of rudeness there...
I did explain that toy companies view 'semi-regular availability' as being even as little as available once every year or two. It depends on the specific cycle of that line. What is considered semi-regularly available in Marvel Legends, and what's the same availability in Super7 G.I. Joe are going to be wildly different because of their different release schedules and expectations.
For NECA's Cartoon figures, the original boxed set came out sometime in mid-2017. We're in mid-2024 now. And, as discussed, the Turtles have been released 5 times in that period. So 5 times in 7 years. Not quite once per year, but also not as distant as once every two years. However, that doesn't tell a fair story either, really.
Most would agree, I think, that the line didn't actually start for MOST collectors until the 2-packs were released. That was the first time the 'toon Turtles were available to a wider audience and there was potential/promise for it to be more than just a one-off item at a convention. Well, sir, the two-packs were released in 2019.
So if we take the original exclusive boxed set out of the equation and call the cartoon line as beginning with the two-packs in 2019, then that means the turtles have been on shelves four times in 5 years. Literally almost once per year (statistically, not by calendar - important because that's how NECA would likely be looking at it).
One could argue more than that because the advertising colors versions of the Turtles were actually released on two separate occasions - first as two-packs and again as a 4-pack. So 5 times in 5 years. I'm certainly not trying to bury the lead here; it's absolutely true that being available technically 5 times in a 5 year period doesn't mean 'easily available every year.' Not AT ALL. I'm speaking only from the perspective of how a company like NECA or Mattel would look at it. They see things differently than collectors do. I'm not defending how they release things - just explaining their logic.
And ALL of this is only to point out the futility in arguing over whether or not 'these' Turtles are going to be 'evergreen.' The whole point is that NECA already views the Turtles as evergreen. The Pizza Club is simply the most current iteration of that semi-regular release schedule. But people just need to be clear that these turtles being 'evergreen' doesn't mean these (Pizza Club) turtles are going to be readily available for a long period of time, OR are going to be released exactly as-is again in the future. Probably neither of those things will be true.
So yeah - it's not a judgement call. I'm not trying to argue NECA's release schedule is good, or right, or best for the line, or even enjoyable/easy to collect. I'd probably fall on arguing it's none of those things. BUT, I do think NECA views the Turtles as evergreen, and the evidence is all there if you view it from -their- perspective and not the perspective of 'how easy has it been for me to get this stuff?'
I think it's just the toon and movie lines that aren't "evergreen", however you interpret that word. Gremlins, Gargoyles, ALF... I think all the other NECA brands are readily available either in store or online. Their distro window is enormous and they seem regularly restocked for years. Last Ronin, Universal Monster Turtles, most if not all of the Archie figures, most of the Mirage stuff, I can find at retail or less. Definitely online, but they also kick up at stores.
I figure the toon and movie stuff is stymied by their exclusive deals with Target and Walmart. That, or purposefully withholding the brothers is some sort of reverse collecting psychology marketing tactic that I don't fully understand. The expectation that a classic, normal Leonardo figure would be as readily available as a classic, normal Goliath figure, seems fair and makes sense, as it would help onboard new collectors 24/7. But there must be something behind this Tickle Me Elmo logic, I just don't know what it is.
That is a really good post Knight Damien and you talk a lot of sense.
I think the reason why collectors are hoping that these individual Pizza Club releases finally become evergreen unlike the previous releases, is because those previous releases were either released as a four pack which is expensive for people to just casually pick up while in Target, or they were released as two packs that had other figures in with the turtle brothers that people may not want. I will exclude the Style Guide releases as they are more of a variant really.
So these individual releases are more friendly for the casual collector to get in on the line, as they can get them cheaply one at a time etc. so that is why of all the releases so far, these Pizza Club turtles make the most sense to semi-regularly release. However it does seem that NECA are mostly just catering to the collectors that are already deep or semi-deep into the line and so just want to continually come out with new releases all the time, even if some of those 'new' releases keep using the same tired old molds that some of us have purchased many times over due to slight differences in the releases.
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