They sold out fast, but then it is always hard to tell how popular they were as how many copies did they have for sale etc.?
The 'Toon Turtles are an evergreen item. Flat out.These are characters that are -semi-regularly- available.
ROFL.
Oh look - we may have found one of those people that doesn't understand what 'evergreen' means to toy companies, even after it was literally explained in the post they're quoting.
If you think the regular cartoon turtles are "semi-regularly available" to purchase then you are completely out of touch with reality.
If you think the regular cartoon turtles are "semi-regularly available" to purchase then you are completely out of touch with reality.
Ignoring the touch of rudeness there...
I did explain that toy companies view 'semi-regular availability' as being even as little as available once every year or two. It depends on the specific cycle of that line. What is considered semi-regularly available in Marvel Legends, and what's the same availability in Super7 G.I. Joe are going to be wildly different because of their different release schedules and expectations.
For NECA's Cartoon figures, the original boxed set came out sometime in mid-2017. We're in mid-2024 now. And, as discussed, the Turtles have been released 5 times in that period. So 5 times in 7 years. Not quite once per year, but also not as distant as once every two years. However, that doesn't tell a fair story either, really.
Most would agree, I think, that the line didn't actually start for MOST collectors until the 2-packs were released. That was the first time the 'toon Turtles were available to a wider audience and there was potential/promise for it to be more than just a one-off item at a convention. Well, sir, the two-packs were released in 2019.
So if we take the original exclusive boxed set out of the equation and call the cartoon line as beginning with the two-packs in 2019, then that means the turtles have been on shelves four times in 5 years. Literally almost once per year (statistically, not by calendar - important because that's how NECA would likely be looking at it).
One could argue more than that because the advertising colors versions of the Turtles were actually released on two separate occasions - first as two-packs and again as a 4-pack. So 5 times in 5 years. I'm certainly not trying to bury the lead here; it's absolutely true that being available technically 5 times in a 5 year period doesn't mean 'easily available every year.' Not AT ALL. I'm speaking only from the perspective of how a company like NECA or Mattel would look at it. They see things differently than collectors do. I'm not defending how they release things - just explaining their logic.
And ALL of this is only to point out the futility in arguing over whether or not 'these' Turtles are going to be 'evergreen.' The whole point is that NECA already views the Turtles as evergreen. The Pizza Club is simply the most current iteration of that semi-regular release schedule. But people just need to be clear that these turtles being 'evergreen' doesn't mean these (Pizza Club) turtles are going to be readily available for a long period of time, OR are going to be released exactly as-is again in the future. Probably neither of those things will be true.
So yeah - it's not a judgement call. I'm not trying to argue NECA's release schedule is good, or right, or best for the line, or even enjoyable/easy to collect. I'd probably fall on arguing it's none of those things. BUT, I do think NECA views the Turtles as evergreen, and the evidence is all there if you view it from -their- perspective and not the perspective of 'how easy has it been for me to get this stuff?'
I think it's just the toon and movie lines that aren't "evergreen", however you interpret that word. Gremlins, Gargoyles, ALF... I think all the other NECA brands are readily available either in store or online. Their distro window is enormous and they seem regularly restocked for years. Last Ronin, Universal Monster Turtles, most if not all of the Archie figures, most of the Mirage stuff, I can find at retail or less. Definitely online, but they also kick up at stores.
I figure the toon and movie stuff is stymied by their exclusive deals with Target and Walmart. That, or purposefully withholding the brothers is some sort of reverse collecting psychology marketing tactic that I don't fully understand. The expectation that a classic, normal Leonardo figure would be as readily available as a classic, normal Goliath figure, seems fair and makes sense, as it would help onboard new collectors 24/7. But there must be something behind this Tickle Me Elmo logic, I just don't know what it is.
That is a really good post Knight Damien and you talk a lot of sense.
I think the reason why collectors are hoping that these individual Pizza Club releases finally become evergreen unlike the previous releases, is because those previous releases were either released as a four pack which is expensive for people to just casually pick up while in Target, or they were released as two packs that had other figures in with the turtle brothers that people may not want. I will exclude the Style Guide releases as they are more of a variant really.
So these individual releases are more friendly for the casual collector to get in on the line, as they can get them cheaply one at a time etc. so that is why of all the releases so far, these Pizza Club turtles make the most sense to semi-regularly release. However it does seem that NECA are mostly just catering to the collectors that are already deep or semi-deep into the line and so just want to continually come out with new releases all the time, even if some of those 'new' releases keep using the same tired old molds that some of us have purchased many times over due to slight differences in the releases.
I think it's just the toon and movie lines that aren't "evergreen", however you interpret that word. Gremlins, Gargoyles, ALF... I think all the other NECA brands are readily available either in store or online. Their distro window is enormous and they seem regularly restocked for years. Last Ronin, Universal Monster Turtles, most if not all of the Archie figures, most of the Mirage stuff, I can find at retail or less. Definitely online, but they also kick up at stores.
I figure the toon and movie stuff is stymied by their exclusive deals with Target and Walmart. That, or purposefully withholding the brothers is some sort of reverse collecting psychology marketing tactic that I don't fully understand. The expectation that a classic, normal Leonardo figure would be as readily available as a classic, normal Goliath figure, seems fair and makes sense, as it would help onboard new collectors 24/7. But there must be something behind this Tickle Me Elmo logic, I just don't know what it is.
I always thought the reason those other lines that you mentioned are always available is because they are less popular than the turtles and people aren't picking them up anywhere near as much, meaning that there is usually stock available somewhere from the original release of them, not because they have been restocked.
The toon line sometimes has releases that don't sell as well, for example the Punk Frog two packs, so they were easily found at Targets for multiple years after release, (they perhaps have sold out now), but that didn't mean those Punk Frogs were evergreen for a bit with new releases, it just meant they were peg-warming, (or shelf-warming rather as those boxes don't have hooks on).
Right, there is pegwarming vs being "evergreen", but I think of the case of lets say, the Gremlins figures... I think they are getting steady reissues over the years and it's not just one huge original production run of each figure pegwarming. But either way, I think it's easy to assess that the TMNT bros in their vanilla forms will sell really well. So - why not make more and keep them readily available? I don't have an answer there but I do wonder if it's a Target restriction somehow, which is why they are always reboxing the brothers instead of just reissuing them. Like Target will only ever agree to buy X amount of each barcode, but you can double that amount if you switch around the accessories and box and give it a new barcode, they view it as an entirely new thing.
All speculation though.
@hopethisworks I would interpret things kind of the opposite way. What you're describing feels a lot more like lack of consumer interest. Goliath, for example, isn't readily available because NECA keeps producing more of him to make sure he's always on shelves. He's just.. still around. That is to say, you don't see Goliath at Walmart six months after his release because NECA made more. It's because Walmart still had some. That's just not what 'evergreen' refers to.
'Evergreen' asks the question; 'if those Goliaths do sell out, will NECA make more?' Darth Vader versus Antoc Merrick. Hasbro might make nearly the same number of both characters in a wave for one production run, but which one is going to appear in future waves over and over again as part of new production runs?
In short; something being available for a long time isn't what makes it 'evergreen.' That's just not how that term is applied. It just means it hasn't managed to sell through on its production run. It's still eventually going to sell out -- provided it's not deeply unpopular -- and the longer that takes the LESS likely the item will turn out to be 'evergreen' (i.e. be put into a new production run to make more). Evergreen doesn't mean 'they made a lot.' It means 'they have plans to make more when these sell out - many more times if necessary.' Darth Vader. Wolverine. Ninja Turtles. Batman. Those are evergreen not because they make fucktons all at once, but because they -keep making them-.
None of that is a defense for Turtles being hard to get for some collectors. I'm getting mine from shady Chinese resellers because Target exclusives basically don't come to Canada anymore. I KNOW the frustration, and I know what it's like to feel like these characters are NOT readily available. I'm only explaining the -toy company- side of that conversation as I understand it.
I think it's easy to assess that the TMNT bros in their vanilla forms will sell really well. So - why not make more and keep them readily available?
My point from earlier in this thread is that.. they do make more? Like, I'm not sure where people are getting that they don't. Depending on how you quantify the age of the line and number of releases, the line is like 5 years old and has 5 independent releases of the Turtles. You might not like how they do it - but NECA very clearly sees this as 'keeping them available.' It just has to fit into existing production cycles.
I think it's easy to assess that the TMNT bros in their vanilla forms will sell really well. So - why not make more and keep them readily available?
My point from earlier in this thread is that.. they do make more? Like, I'm not sure where people are getting that they don't. Depending on how you quantify the age of the line and number of releases, the line is like 5 years old and has 5 independent releases of the Turtles. You might not like how they do it - but NECA very clearly sees this as 'keeping them available.' It just has to fit into existing production cycles.
Yes, they 'make more' in the sense that they keep coming up with creative new ways to sell the same turtle buck, but are they actually releasing more of the exact same type of release? I know that they did re-issue the 2021 Turtles In Disguise set, as the first run was accidentally glossy, and the second run was the matte finish version that the first release should have been.
However how many times were those first four two packs released? Just once in 2019 right? How many times did they release the Style Guide two packs and four pack? Just once each in 2020 and 2022 respectively right? In 2023 there were no turtle brothers releases, and in 2024 we have the Pizza Club's, but will these Pizza Club's finally be the version that actually comes back in 2025 and 2026? Personally I hope so.
I've yet to see Bebop and Rocksteady. I missed the online drop as well. Probably something I'm going to miss out on because I'm not paying them scalper prices.
@theknightdamien by "make more" I don't mean putting out a different set in limited quantities two years later, but actually having enough product to fulfill demand at time of launch, like how they do it with just about every other one of their action figures, which are readily available without using eBay.
I'm personally not complaining; I have my turtles. But I do think it's factually of note that these guys always seem to be produced in inadequate quantities, and particularly break the mold of what NECA usually does with their figure distribution, which is make enough to meet demand and keep their figures consistently on shelves, in stores or online, for years at a time. The brothers come in little quick bursts. Maybe repetitive quick bursts, but it's still quick bursts, and without the NECA store they are actually unattainable for some folks.
I don't think potential customers are crazy for thinking "hey, can I just buy a Leonardo?"
Turtles are just popular. I wouldn't be surprised if NECA has made significantly more Leonardos, Donatellos, Michelangelos, and Raphaels over these past 5 years or so than any other action figure they produce. There were refreshes of the original two-packs, two production runs on the Turtles in Disguise set (including an open preorder), and not these individual releases. And during that time, they did have to share some molds with the video game line and the style guide interpretations and we'll see what they do with this current set. Will anyone be surprised if after Haulathon comes and goes that NECA does a preorder for these Pizza Club figures? I wouldn't count on it as a sure thing, but it definitely wouldn't shock me.
TMNT, and the actual turtles in particular, are NECA's golden goose right now and I think they're trying to manage the demand. They don't want the turtles to join the ranks of Gizmo, Predator, and the less popular figures form this very line in sitting on shelves for months. They make a lot and they sell a lot and I'm sure from their point-of-view things are going pretty well in that respect. They probably also view other iterations of the turtles as something that can over-saturate the market so, whether it makes sense or not, the Mirage four-pack of last year and even the Archie set coming this year might give them some pause about when to go back to the turtle well after this release window. Plus, we have the Mikey and Donatello variants and you know there's likeley a Raph and Leo two-pack coming soon as well. As a collector, I would personally just like to know if these Pizza Club turtles are basically the "new" turtles and all future sets are going to try to match them for color and such.
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