Honestly, I don't even see what Classified is doing as straight up classic OR modern. It's like "modernized classics". The earliest waves did a pretty good job of modernizing some aspects, but went a little too far with the leg armor and odd colors. I don't think it improved their classic designs.
Even what we are getting from the retro line, or with mainline figures like Spirit, Shipwreck, Bazooka, Quick Kick, etc, still get some modern twists and updates, while retaining a lot of the most recognizable characteristics of their designs. I think they've actually achieved the middle ground to keep as many people as possible satisfied.
If you want some truly faithful vintage looks, I feel like Super7 Ultimates scratches that itch.
what is a modern take really? The Joe Pro and laser guns? Anime style armor? Do they have to resemble something like Halo or personalized mech suits to be modern? Do they have to be like the Valaverse body armors? I’m not sure what this debate of modern v 80s looks is really about. The original Classified Duke, was he the modern look? I like him. Scarlet in her armor was ok just need better range of motion in elbows. Roadblock’s fork gun looked out of place. I do think the laser guns looked off. Not that laser guns and wild weapons aren’t part of GI Joe. Some of the designs just looked off. Cobra Commanders gun looks like a heat gun not a pistol then and now. The techno vipers have laser guns. Their design are less ornate than the first Classsified Duke’s rifle. ARAH had modern and standard military designs. Classified does too. I don’t think Hasbro bowed to bullying. They continued with desired designs.
Thwipp!
Question for those of you wanting modern updates....Why?
If the old designs aren't your cup of tea in Classified, why bother with the same character just in a new costume?
Because it's the character that I'm interested in, not the shirt he wore in 1984. As long as Duke is a blond dude in a khaki shirt, he's always recognizable as Duke.
So I say take advantage of the larger, 6" pallet and give us facial scars and 2-tone shirts. Use your imagination and give us an interpretation of what the original, nearly-featureless figures could have intended. Arm them with more modern weapons and equipment. As long as you have a blond dude in a khaki shirt, it's going to be Duke. Just a more visually interesting Duke.
Now, I was one of the collectors who thought they'd gone too far in the futuristic elements of the early waves, but really thought they'd dialed it in perfectly when they got to Major Bludd and, say, Flint. But then they immediately cranked the dial further and just started giving us nearly copy/paste versions of the original figures and I find them uninspired and visually uninteresting. By comparison, I find the Retro Duke really boring to look at.
But as a side-note, I would have been very interested in a more military-accurate G.I. Joe team. I'd seen some customs along those lines and they look badass. And honestly, if you look at early designs for the Valaverse Action Force Kickstarter, Condor and Eclipse look like they're based on Bobby's sketches for his proposed 6" G.I. Joe line's Duke and Scarlett.
Question for those of you wanting modern updates....Why?
If the old designs aren't your cup of tea in Classified, why bother with the same character just in a new costume? Why not brand new characters and a new lore. No more Duke, Cobra Commander et al, but something like a complete reboot just as when ARAH took over from Adventure Team.
Sorry, but that's such a myopic gate-keeping question, dude, lol.
Because they're good characters that look better when actual talent has gone into the design work instead of just buttoned up shirts & cargo pants? Because ninjas with seam lines & pouches looks better than dudes in pajamas & ski masks? (These are just our opinions, but when GeeWunners are spouting their opinions as facts, then why can't we?)
Because a good idea is still a good idea even if it wasn't executed that well the first time around?
Optimus Prime is a great character, but I think he looks better as the Earthrise design than the poorly animated disproportionate duckfooted GeeWun.
You're literally trying to argue black & white semantics when we're literally asking for shades of grey.
Everyone with nostalgia goggles that can't remove them are of the mindset that "only the original is the best," which doesn't take into account the ability to keep what works & change what doesn't, because their cognitive dissonance tells them "EVERYTHING WORKS, NOTHING IS BAD OR WRONG, NOTHING CAN BE IMPROVED UPON." It's the "the book is always better" people. No, sorry, Drax the Destroyer's comic book origin is the dumbest most convoluted thing ever. No, sorry, Steven King, but killer firehoses & hedge animals aren't scary, never have been, never will be. #KubrickForever
It's sad enough that GeeWunners can't grow or mature as their own people with their own personal objectivity, and instead stay stuck in "the first is the best & will never change" mindset, but to then demand that everyone else has to deal with their stunted limits or leave is why I have such a problem with them. I promise you I wouldn't even have such harsh insulting criticisms of any of those people if this wasn't their attitude. It would never even cross my mind that someone has nostalgia goggles, let alone can't remove them, let alone "is stunted & immature" if they preferred the original the way it was, but still accepted changes & improvements & modernizations for other people who appreciate those.
"GeeWun or don't make it," is a childish sentiment, forces my "everyone should be happy" mindset to retaliate with "modern or grow up," and then to bully a company into drastically changing their products to suit only you & yours, is the absolute most childish. And that's what happened. Maybe not from many here, but from the Joe fandom as a whole.
Sh**, can we all come together as one group to bully Hasbro into not delivering bad quality control for higher prices? Because I could get behind that "customers bullying corporations." How about society bullying their corrupt governments into NOT keeping the poor poor so they can get richer & more powerful? No, instead, let's fight about sh** that doesn't matter with each other, and ignore who the real enemies are.
All I know is I hope Hasbro really does separate the Retro and Classifieds line going forward. Joe Pros for Classifieds and old school for Retros. We got a V1 Retro Snake Eyes, but not a true V2 Retro SE. All the Classifieds SE and variants were great. Collected them all without regrets. But I still want that old school V2 SE specific look.
Question for those of you wanting modern updates....Why?
If the old designs aren't your cup of tea in Classified, why bother with the same character just in a new costume? Why not brand new characters and a new lore. No more Duke, Cobra Commander et al, but something like a complete reboot just as when ARAH took over from Adventure Team.
The evolution of looks for GI Joe characters in toy form is as fundamental to the brand as the cartoon, at least for many of us. For some, it's more important. That's where I sit. I want to see and buy different versions of Snake Eyes, a character I've appreciated for 30+ years. Why make a new all-black ninja when you have an awesome one already?
It does seem like "modernized" is tripping a lot of people up and causing disagreement where there might not be disagreement. I'm not going to sit here and say Wave One Roadblock is better than Amazon Roadblock, because IMO W1 Roadblock is ugly and his gun sucks. Modernized can be as simple as giving Spirit Iron Knife military pants, laced boots, and detailed accessories that were impossible in the old scale without digital sculpting.
Wave 1 Roadblock is too busy, and that head is just not good lol, Amazon Roadblock is too plain for me.
So I combined them.
And I was able to because of the options.
Like Robo says, "options are good."
The only figures I take issue with are wave 1 Scarlet and Roadblock. Just way too much going on with weird colors. Anything else after them was fine. I was even okay with that first Duke until I saw the retro one and knew I had to replace him, but would have been good with that as my representation of Duke forever if the retro had not been made.
Dunno why I seem to have struck such a nerve. I don't think Hasbro would change course unless it was the majority of feedback they were receiving calling for more classic designs.
Yeah, I think they balance it well honestly. I obviously love the Classic looks of the ARAH Toyline myself, having grown up in the 80's and 90's. So, any time they make a figure exactly like or close to the classic toys I like it the most. But I have been very happy with any modernization of tech, or just newer updated looks they've done.
But like you said Justice, Duke in Wave 1 was great, but Roadblock and Scarlet were iffy, and just didn't feel right. The colors and some of the armor looking pieces, it just didn't translate well.
But they seemed to have learned the good and the bad from each Wave early on and transitioned perfectly into a great blend of classic and new/modern touches.
Because every figure they reveal and let out looks great to me at this point. Honestly, I think all of them have since Wave 1. Roadblock and Scarlet were really my only major complaints.
In the upcoming Wave Jinx doesn't have sleeves, and that's not how I'd like her to look, but she still looks really cool and I'm getting her. And I'm sure we'll get a sleeved-up toy version in the Retro line at some point.
Hasbro is doing a great job.
Hasbro may make Skybound comics looks. They are keen on that partnership. I hear Duke is scruffy. That seems odd to me as Duke is like Captain America to me. That being said. There is a Instagrammer who makes slick mods to tell his own cinematic stories. He’s used old man Hawkeye bearded flowing hair head as well as Classified Rock n Roll to make a bearded Cap. They look good. G_Ronin is the guy. I’m sure you’ve seen his pics. He does Classified and Legends mash ups often. Great stuff!
Thwipp!
Hasbro had a perfectly good modern Duke design already and they just threw it away to cater to the geriatrics in the old folks home.
@boy_wonder Pfft, all this tan shirt love keeping us from getting the one true Duke!
The only figures I take issue with are wave 1 Scarlet and Roadblock. Just way too much going on with weird colors. Anything else after them was fine. I was even okay with that first Duke until I saw the retro one and knew I had to replace him, but would have been good with that as my representation of Duke forever if the retro had not been made.
Dunno why I seem to have struck such a nerve. I don't think Hasbro would change course unless it was the majority of feedback they were receiving calling for more classic designs.
I agree. I hate wave 1 Scarlett and Roadblock. I think the Duke repaint is better, but I still hate his legs. That shin armor is goofy. Major Bludd, Cobra Island Trooper, Stalker, 00 Snake Eyes and Tiger Force Outback are my faves in the line because they are modern updates that are still recognizable.
@nebraska the best tip for improving many early Classified figures is to spin the boot around to hide the shin guards, and then spin the feet back forwards. I did it with W1 Duke, Flint, Gung Ho, early Roadblocks, and Bazooka. Gives them better range for leaning forwards, too.
@tenime That one line you said about bullying them for better QC for higher priced figures is legit my only hill I'll die on for this line. I've loved the classic looks, I've loved the updates, I'm just happy as a pig in **** to have a goes line in this scale, and bonus points that I can make fun/funny displays with them with other lines where the scale matches. (I've got Duke driving the VAMP while Marvel Legends Hawkeye is firing an arrow from the passenger seat on my shelf right now cos it makes me laugh every time I look at it). But if we could make sure they aren't shipping frozen hips or gummy guns that warp in the package? There's some bullying I wouldn't try to stop.
Honestly, the one redesign element that puts me off - and I don't think they SHOULDN'T do it, it just doesn't sit well with me personally, is when they lean too hard on the modern realism. I think they do a fantastic job with it, but sometimes if I figure reminds me too much of real life... Look, I'm a weird guy. I'm a pacifist who collects toy soldiers. But part of what helps me love the Joes is when they're bloody ridiculous so I can separate real world stuff from my toys. Like I think Breaker and Clutch and Tripwire are phenomenally designed figures, but I'll always like when they're weird like Sci-Fi or even just a little goofy like Shipwreck or classic Gung-Ho more than when they remind me of real life. (Only figures I've skipped in this line were the 60th Anniversary Action Soldiers for this reason.)
But like... I'm psyched for the collectors who want those. Absolutely no shade. A bit of exaggeration or science fiction or oddball ninja stuff just makes me enjoy the line even more. (Plus not buying those saves me some scratch so I can buy the inevitable, expensive Dreadnoks vehicle some day, cos let me tell ya, I liked the Dreadnoks as a kid, but the older I get the more I love idiot anarchists...)
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