Another thing I noticed with Koril is she comes across as far more aggressive in episode 7 than episode 3. If nothing else, you see the same moment in both when she finds the twins outside of their fortress and reprimands them. The exact same line in 3 comes across as almost jovial, but when Sol sees it in 7 she seems harsh. They do something similar with Osha's perspective of Sol just before Mae falls, as opposed to Sol's perspective of that moment. Just little subtle things showing how perspective can skew things.
Hrrmmm. Not sure what I think of the finale. May need to revisit the series as I am not sure it fully held together.
I'm kind of struggling with the motivations of Osha and Mae at this point, them flipping roles like that, not sure it was fully earned - seemed more like we were supposed to be surprised, while I was more annoyed I think.
I have forgotten when Master Vernestra learned the truth about what happened?
I will say that RU was right about Sol - at least from the standpoint I had assumed he was going to ultimately be a hero, and RU questioned that.
Edited to add - why did the tracker disable Sol's ship, he was concerned he was about to shoot at Mae?
Also...
Hrrmmm. Not sure what I think of the finale. May need to revisit the series as I am not sure it fully held together.
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. I didn't rewatch the whole season before the finale like I'd planned, but I'll continue the rewatch with my son then revisit the finale. Ultimately, yes I did have a couple of issues but they didn't ruin the show for me overall. Finale could have been a little stronger, but I still think it stuck the landing for me.
I'm kind of struggling with the motivations of Osha and Mae at this point, them flipping roles like that, not sure it was fully earned - seemed more like we were supposed to be surprised, while I was more annoyed I think.
'not fully earned' is definitely how I would put it. I guess Mae's motives were never super clear. Once she learned her sister was still alive, she was ready to abandon her quest for revenge because she did have some family left out there. That made total sense to me, but losing her sister all over again seemed sudden, except that it meant finally letting Osha have what she wanted. This time, Mae wasn't getting in her way.
I have forgotten when Master Vernestra learned the truth about what happened?
I'm not sure that was ever explicitly shown. She was never shown or mentioned, that I can remember, in the flashbacks, and Sol certainly didn't come out and state what happened on Brendok to her, or even reference it ("Yeah, I'm talking about, you know... you know what I mean, Vern. Wink wink. That, you know, the 'shush' on Brendok?") So I'm guessing it happened off camera? Or she was able to piece it together just from Force echoes of the night as well as Sol's corpse.
I will say that RU was right about Sol - at least from the standpoint I had assumed he was going to ultimately be a hero, and RU questioned that.
Thank you. I feel like I wasn't entirely correct, but I rarely am. But I appreciate the shout out. He made a lot of mistakes, maybe for noble reasons, but either way he wasn't a great Jedi. I was kinda ready for him to go fully dark side by the end
Edited to add - why did the tracker disable Sol's ship, he was concerned he was about to shoot at Mae?
Maybe? Maybe he saw a Jedi preparing to do something Jedi shouldn't be doing and stepped in the way of it? Too bad he wasn't on Brendock 16 years earlier.
I also just learned Bonadan, Torbin's homeworld, and the Tynnan species (Bazel the tracker) were both first ever mentioned in an old Han Solo novel from 1979. Talk about knowing their Star Wars.
Also...
SpoilerwarningIf they make Yoda some sort of morally ambiguous political guy who learns about the Sith creating Osha and Mae in season 2 but not only does nothing about it but doesn't recognize the same scenario with Anakin - I will be very displeased...
Obviously I don't know, but I seriously doubt that will happen. I really hope for a season 2 though.
So the Jedi aren’t liars, manipulators, or murderers?
The main players in this story were. To me this story was not critique on missionary abuse but commentary on corruption in the institution of the police. The call for outside review by the Senate hammered that home to me. How is there no other Jedi in that meeting at the end of this Finale. Bald lady speaks for Jedi. They don’t have council? They don’t have at least three Jedi Masters in that room? Bald lady continues in this crap version of the Jedi.
This is the decision of Disney to portray the Jedi this way. It’s hard to stomach. Tales of the Jedi told much better narrative in much less time. Ahsoka wasn’t stolen for indoctrination. She’s not chosen to be a Jedi for controlling her people. The whole community embraced and celebrated the choosing of Ahsoka.
Then of course war happens and she’s a warrior. They explore that in episode five of Ahsoka series. That episode alone is better than all eight of these. Ahsoka does leave the Jedi order as they betrayed her in the trial and she lost faith in them. So yeah the Jedi are flawed.
This whole narrative is inconsistent and frankly no fun. I guess this is balance? God I hope beyond hope Skeleton Crew is not wrapped up in this stupid Jedi narrative they are weaving. Make it the space western please.
Thwipp!
So... what was the point of all this?
I felt nothing for Osha and Mae because I never understood what either of them wanted. Mae wants to kill everyone - then decides she wants her sister and... not to kill anymore? Osha wants to stay out of it and then decides she'd like to start murdering. Oh, and she kinda wants her sister back, but not really, but maybe?
Then the whole relationship is mindwiped away. Then Mae goes to prison and Osha is evil now. Because why not? WTF.
And what the hell does Qimir want this whole time - WHY does he even want an Acolyte? Y'know, this story might have made sense if you delete Osha and Mae and Qimir was the child orphaned on Brendok. I think that's actually where this story breaks down - either Mae wants to kill those who killed her family of her own volition - or she's a pawn who waited 16 years until some dude told her to?
What?
Don't care one bit about Sol. At the end of this, I felt mildly bad for Flashback Torbin, Aniseya and... and... I guess Jecki and Yord for being too interesting for this show, so they had to get skewered to keep the most boring secret in the galaxy a secret.
Venestra was terrible. Awful, flat acting, almost as bad as those Jedi walking with zero purpose or drive in the woods. Find a motivation, maybe, or some urgency? And to not answer a SINGLE plot thread about her and Qimir - infuriating. Oooooohhhh, it's implied, it's deep storytelling - it's just trash.
Also, why am I supposed to care about a vergence in the Force in the first place? Did Sol ever actually finish that sentence? Why was Mae disintegrating in the first place? I get it - Aniseya was doing something - but WHAT?
I should care about Osha going red saber - I kinda wish Rey had sided with Kylo at the end of Last Jedi, which would have made her PALPATIN-ESS make some sense - but here, what's the point? Just more HEAVY STARE.
Oh, and can't forget the three seconds they found Gorr in a galaxy far, far away! Another nothing cameo in a major franchise that holds zero in-narrative weight.
Oh, and they may as well have just left the wires in the fight scenes - hardly any of that looked believable.
If all these thoughts seem jumbled that seems like a correct summation of this misguided series. And the gall to think this deserves/d a Season Two - Disney+ has got to figure out what kind of TV they are making - is it a miniseries or ongoing series? And then f'ing write it correctly and INFORM THE AUDIENCE about the story they are about to invest in - that it will or won't have an ending. I never want another second of this junk but I am SO ANNOYED that for my investment I was given a stupid ...
I liked the High Republic Jedi uniforms, and I would have liked to have seen more Carrie Anne Moss in this role. And Qimir's island was a beautiful location shot nicely. There, said something nice.
I think this Forbes review is pretty spot-on. Also spoilers.
So, the show definitely had some flaws, but by far the biggest for me were some of the casting choices. Using Amandla Stenberg as the lead doomed the project as she is awful. I have never seen her be good in anything and I'm not sure how she gets so much high profile work - I guess her stint as Rue in the Hunger Games did a lot of heavy lifting. And Rebecca Henderson as Vernestra turned in such a wooden one note performance. Those two casting choices did the project no favors. Daphne Keene is awesome so of course her character got killed off halfway thru.
I enjoyed much of the show, but feel like there was a better show in there with just a few different choices - and better casting for the lead.
@panthercult I admit I only ever saw her in Hunger Games, but I still don't see an issue with how she portrayed the twins. She definitely was doing subtle little things with her body language throughout to differentiate, then they bled together during the fight. Which made total sense since they're one person split into two. Thinking on that more, it makes more sense to me that they switched roles after the fight. Almost like the fight bonded them together, then followed by Osha learning the truth finally. I dunno, it certainly was a little clumsy, but I'm feeling better about the ending after some time.
Vern was definitely wooden but I still see that as an acting choice. She did a lot of acting with her eyes while remaining outwardly calm and collected.
Definitely ready for a season 2 announcement.
I basically had to watch this show because of the discourse I kept seeing online. People I know were telling me this show is destroying Star Wars. I've avoided outright spoilers below, but I'd recommend not reading if you haven't watched the show and plan to.
Obviously, such hyperbole is never true. This show is just a big old ball of "Fine." I think the cinematography was an improvement over more recent outings. It felt like there was an emphasis on using more real locations and sets, or maybe the green screen stuff has just become that much better. I thought the action was pretty damn good. It was a bit sparse, but that helps elevate the scenes when they do take place. Only fight I didn't like was the Wookie because they went back to the flippity-flop junk with the character when he's the one that, more than any other Jedi, should keep his feet on the ground. I felt the overall theme, that institutions that are allowed to amass power with no oversight are bad, is a worthwhile path to walk where it concerns the Jedi. They're not perfect and expecting Star Wars to portray them as flawless heroes seems unrealistic to me. As such, I liked Sol. I thought he was the best and most interesting character in the show and I thought his arc was appropriate. Qmir was pretty good, as well. He did get a few too many token lines and the show should have given us a little more info about him as reward for watching the whole thing, if nothing else, but overall he's a solid character. And this show gets an extra star as well for not having a single scene set on fucking Tatooine. I never want to see that planet again.
The show was not without flaws. It did not explain what was so bad about whatever Mae and Osha are. Is it Jedi bias? Is it the stuff of pure evil? I don't know, I only know that Sol and the Jedi were looking for it, Sol found it, and then everything went to hell in a handbasket. I didn't care for the resolution with Mae and Osha, I guess Mae felt like she owed her? I wasn't surprised by Osha's outcome and I suspected that was the ending all along because why else would she have left the Jedi? Still, up until basically the last two episodes, the lead of the show was boring. The show killed off too many characters before we had much of a chance to feel any attachment to them. A character death should mean something, but the ones in the big battle in the middle of the series were just fodder. And I agree with everyone who criticized the portrayal of Venestra - what the hell was that? I want to think the actor is a fine actor and just received the worst stage direction. Was the show trying to get across that she's wound tight? I guess that would coincide with her motion sickness or whatever the source of that is when she travels. I hated her scenes though and it was too much of a reminder of how most of the actors were instructed to play Jedi in the prequels.
I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but I am interested in the continuing adventures of Darth Smile and crew. It feels like an opportunity to present a more nuanced take on the dark side, though who knows where they'll take it? I'm the type of Star Wars fan that thinks the prequel trilogy is terrible and I wish they didn't exist so I dislike that any of these shows that are set even further back are essentially stuck with them as an endpoint, but at least showing us how the Jedi became this flawed organization of unchecked power that failed to snuff out the rot within has potential. Though if the teaser character in the end is shown to share a lot of blame in that then I suspect the fanboys will become even more outraged in the future.
So, I suppose it's fair to wonder if the stiffness of the performances is on the actors or on the direction they've been given. But I feel like Carrie Ann Moss did a fine job of portraying a Jedi that keeps emotions in check and maintains an even keel without coming across stiff as a board and delivering every line in a monotone.
And I'm sorry, there's no way you can convince me there aren't tons of performers who could have brought that Mae/Osha tug of war to life more evocatively, more intricately than Stenberg. Daphne Keene made me care more about Jecki in her 12 minutes (maybe) of total screen time than Stenberg did about either Osha or Mae. Hell the girls that played young Osha and young Mae were better.
Anyway, I am interested to see what happens next. I did enjoy Manny Jacinto and am intrigued by where Qimir's arc goes. I feel certain we aren't done with Mother Koril quite yet. So, assuming season 2 gets a green light I will be watching and hoping my nitpicks about the performances can be overcome by my interest in the tale they tell.
After watching the finale last night I went back and watched the first episode again, and was honestly surprised at how much better it made me feel. Like I wasn't fooling myself about liking the show all along. I really enjoyed Episode 1 again on a rewatch a lot. But it put the things I felt let me down in the finale in better relief, and that was a much heavier lean on the characters and performances I liked least.
there's no way you can convince me
I definitely agree, heh.
Anyway, I am interested to see what happens next. I did enjoy Manny Jacinto and am intrigued by where Qimir's arc goes. I feel certain we aren't done with Mother Koril quite yet. So, assuming season 2 gets a green light I will be watching and hoping my nitpicks about the performances can be overcome by my interest in the tale they tell.
Right. I imagine people who hated the show would be happy to not see any aspect of it continued, but come on. I loathed BOBF yet still want a better second season. I am no fan of the ST but am open to taking the characters in an entertaining and well thought out direction. The Knights of Ren were a massive disappointment, but I'd still take a cool origin show.
Koril, I could see coming back, but it's also easy for them to write her off as killed by Indara with the others and we just didn't see her body.
After watching the finale last night I went back and watched the first episode again, and was honestly surprised at how much better it made me feel. Like I wasn't fooling myself about liking the show all along. I really enjoyed Episode 1 again on a rewatch a lot. But it put the things I felt let me down in the finale in better relief, and that was a much heavier lean on the characters and performances I liked least.
That is truly awesome. I mentioned I enjoyed it more upon rewatch as well. I think one issue could have been expectations that the murder mystery was THE plot of the show, when it was really just the first episode. To be fair, I'd read interviews with Headland stating as much, but I didn't really grasp that until seeing the show for myself.
I definitely feel there are things that could have been clearer, even beyond the intentional vagueness. And some things were clumsy, for sure. But ultimately, it was a fun thing to think about for almost two months, and I'm glad it's something I can rewatch as well.
@panthercult These are my issues. I think the show did ask a few interesting questions about mismatched cultures encountering each other but the shows inability to see which characters and performances are working is baffling. The show ends with only the most boring characters left. Darth Arms from the Good Place being the only borderline interesting character left alive is baffling. The witch mother, Sol, X23 and the space cop were all well acted and fun to watch. So yep better get rid of them. Ma/Osha while I don’t really blame the actor but there is no way an averagely talented 24 year old can do those roles. Star Wars needs to quit casting young twenty something’s as the heavies. It doesn’t work. They have no gravitas.
Well...at least it's over.
Darth Arms from the Good Place
This made me literally laugh out loud after spitting coffee on my keyboard.
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