“This is about power and those who are able to use it.”
“Fear leads to the Dark side.”
What “fear” leads to the Dark side user giving into “hate” then the “suffering”? Sure fear of loss as Anakin was fooled into which lead to hate for the scapegoat put in front of him the Jedi then it leading to self loathing.
This statement about power is that of one suppressed. That’s not fear. This is a hate for the oppressed fighting back.
How are the Jedi suppressing those who would want to embrace the Dark side? Destroying their teachers? Destroying their teachings? Being an exclusive club which opens doors for resentment? Those brought into the fold are admonished/punished if the follow the path to the Dark side?
To me the trailer is misdirecting indeed. This is not about Dark v. Light; red sabers v. Other colors.
I think this is commentary on distribution of power. Why does Maul feel he is getting his revenge? Revenge from what act against him? More commentary on how the Jedi failed which corresponds to our own social systems failing.
Thwipp!
Given the trailer, I assume the youngling that sees "fire" is the older one attacking Carrie Ann Moss.
So, one might assume the Jedi expel those younglings who get in touch with the darker side of the Force - effectively ostracizing them - and there could be a philosophical debate about whether the Force is in and of itself a "moral" or "ethical" thing or if the only moral or ethical component is how it is used - is the light/dark a feature of the Force or does it pull that direction out of you from inside?
The Force could be viewed as kind of like any weapon, some people you trust (possibly inaccurately) with it and others you make every effort not to let them near it. But either way, often when using a weapon is justified and against whom is it used is the ultimate debate and often depends on point of view. The Jedi don't own the Force, but they utilize it to what they see as the benefit of society, maybe in theory the Sith might feel the same way.
And of course, does being attune to the Force on the light side actually make you a better person (the Jedi might say so, or will it only let good guys use it fully), and therefore does the dark side corrupt or merely tie into what you already are in terms of evil? That's at the heart of the Luke vs Ben and Yoda position on Vader - Luke believed he was good but corrupted and redeemable, Ben and Yoda decided he was not. So the films have taken a position already - the dark side can corrupt a good person. Although whether that was the Emperor's undoing in that he also believed that once corrupted you can't go back - so he missed the threat from Vader being ultimately good that was right in front of him.
So maybe the Jedi made a distinction, ironically out of fear of tapping the dark side, of deserving and undeserving force yielders.
That was a great post! It definitely puts things into better perspective.
It’s definitely the user that determines the morality of light and dark. The Force can aid in changing the position of a person or thing. The Force can block one’s ability to breathe. Neither is evil. Both can be dark. The user of the Force tapping into those abilities are showing a reflection of themselves. Perhaps the path to the dark side is indulging your own dark desires as demonstrated by unhealthy fears leading to anger then hate.
Thwipp!
I'm apparently pretty sheltered from the ugly star wars fans still, so this trailer was my first exposure in a while. But it's good to be aware they're still active and angry I guess.
I'm pretty simple when it comes to Star Wars. I like lightsabers, so I will watch this. I don't know what I expect from it or if I think it will be a great show. But I have a feeling, like -most- things Star Wars, I'm going to have fun watching it. And that's all I need here.
That's right. Fetts don't follow the way; they make their own.
Since I assume the Acolyte will be dealing somehow with the origins of Palpy or Plagueis, what are the Sith actually all that mad about and trying to do?
One of the more interesting questions for me is why did Palpatine want absolute power? He makes it pretty clear that is his goal but it is not like we see him living opulently, or with a harem, or anything like that, after he gets it - he just uses it to oppress people and be in charge. He seems indifferent to kindness and human life, but we don't see him be directly cruel or insane, more pragmatic. (Vader is the one who somewhat cavalierly kills his subordinates if they fail him.) If he is full of hate, who is it directed at - everyone?
Anakin meanwhile talks to Padme about bringing order to things - which as kid who grew up a slave in a lawless community, that outlook makes sense - it is the played as his first step down the wrong path. He finds the current society to have a downside, which it can if you are on the bottom rung of the ladder or society ignores you (the Jedi didn't seem to care about there being slaves of the Hutts, for instance), and which Padme really can't connect with. (I am reminded how I really wished they hadn't cut that Padme was elected as Queen but came from a humble background, so she and Anakin could bond over not having real childhoods but were focused on "service").
One of the many ways the Prequels have more depth than they get credit for, while the Sequels have less depth than they get credit for...
Since I assume the Acolyte will be dealing somehow with the origins of Palpy or Plagueis, what are the Sith actually all that mad about and trying to do?
That seems like a good idea for a trilogy!
One of the more interesting questions for me is why did Palpatine want absolute power? He makes it pretty clear that is his goal but it is not like we see him living opulently, or with a harem, or anything like that, after he gets it - he just uses it to oppress people and be in charge. He seems indifferent to kindness and human life, but we don't see him be directly cruel or insane, more pragmatic. (Vader is the one who somewhat cavalierly kills his subordinates if they fail him.) If he is full of hate, who is it directed at - everyone?
I feel I have some good guesses at what you would do with absolute power, heh. But I guess the whole point was to control everything, AND wipe out the Jedi. At last they revealed themselves, at last they had their revenge. But yeah, what they need revenge for, as far as the movies go, was kept vague.
Anakin meanwhile talks to Padme about bringing order to things - which as kid who grew up a slave in a lawless community, that outlook makes sense - it is the played as his first step down the wrong path. He finds the current society to have a downside, which it can if you are on the bottom rung of the ladder or society ignores you (the Jedi didn't seem to care about there being slaves of the Hutts, for instance), and which Padme really can't connect with. (I am reminded how I really wished they hadn't cut that Padme was elected as Queen but came from a humble background, so she and Anakin could bond over not having real childhoods but were focused on "service").
I agree. I also think hiding her on her home planet should have ended up being a mistake, and you could have had some action beats of them 'falling in love' while actively on the run from baddies who recognized her. Running to Tatooine could have been not only to solve his nightmares but also a tactical decision.
One of the many ways the Prequels have more depth than they get credit for, while the Sequels have less depth than they get credit for...
People give the ST credit for depth?
One of the more interesting questions for me is why did Palpatine want absolute power?
Bragging rights? Seriously, I don't think he wanted power for some end result, but rather as *the* end result. Having an entire galaxy fear you seems like the ultimate Sith goal.
I suspect this is really all he wanted in life:
Probably right, the power itself was the draw, like a drug.
I kind of want to find out what the Sith want and see full threat Palpy in action. When Alderaan blew up, did Palpy get the opposite reaction of how Ben was staggered, like pure bliss? Is the suffering caused by his rule something he, or more directly the dark side of the force, feed off of? Seems that way a bit when he is goading Luke. Had the Sith worked out how to create life (Anakin) and live forever "unnaturally" and the Jedi stopped it?
I should note it's not just a Star Wars thing, many movie and fantasy/sci-fi villains just want to run everything even though it's never entirely clear what they think they'll get out of it as they end up living in some dank, terrible location and seem miserable. In Star Wars it is just kind of interesting to me that the need for power is so all consuming you can't have more than 2 Sith at a time as they'd start fighting each other. And the Jedi seemed terrified of the Sith as a concept. So the SW films paint it as more of a cosmic/philosophical battle between good and evil, with the Jedi proactively trying to suppress the Sith.
And no, I don't think the ST gets credit for depth, but there is even less depth, like negative depth or anti-depth, than they intended. I do think they tried for depth with Luke and there were some things with him that were intriguing, and it might have worked if I ever thought that Luke Skywalker would consider killing his nephew out of fear and then run away when his friends needed him.
Anyway, rambled about this enough. Looking forward to The Acolyte.
It's my own baggage here, but after a lifetime of Star Wars and spin offs and fan films, I think I've seen everything they have to say about Jedi. That's really why I was (briefly) so excited about Kylo Ren's idea to just burn it all down and move on from Jedi and Sith.
So, I kind of see where youre coming from... but the Jedi Order has influenced the politics/governance of the galaxy for thousands of years - surely you haven't heard every story there is to tell about that?
That would be like me saying - I don't ever need to see another heist movie ever again, it's been done. Sure it has but people still keep coming up with ways to tell new good ones, so there we are.
I'm not saying the Jedi are all anyone should focus on - I'm happy that we got stories like Andor and the Mandalorian and the Bad Batch to flesh out some of the non-jedi spaces in the universe and I will be super happy for that to continue to happen and for there to be more of that going forward.
But there are clearly also plenty of stories still to be told about Jedi throughout history and throughout the galaxy. To date the stories we have that feature Jedi all essentially revolve around Anakin Skywalker or his legacy in some form or fashion, so it's nice to finally get something like this that features Jedi that is (I sincerely hope) divorced from Annakin's story. Even Ahsoka was a bit of an extension - I mean Annakin was literally in the show.
I am hopeful that this may be the first but not the last of shows that give us views of Jedi that are entirely unrelated to the Skywalker/Palpatine arc.
My thoughts on the whole Sith 'what do they want' thing is about as straight-forward as it gets; There is no actual answer because George Lucas never thought one up because he's not actually very good at any of this beyond a broad strokes kind of creativity. Period. We could speculate and make up our own reasons, but they will definitely just be ad hoc reasons, not something baked into the setting. That just doesn't exist. Sorry, fellas.
That being said, there will probably need to be a reason created eventually if they are, indeed, delving into the origins of the Sith and the Dark Side Perspective. The reality is that, in the real world, no one in the history of ever has accumulated power for the sake of power. Because power has no inherent value or meaning. Every single person acquires power for a reason; wealth, protection, respect, etc. In a fantasy setting you could certainly even argue that the Sith might want to accumulate power solely for the sake of protecting the knowledge they have, with the understanding that not being powerful could mean being wiped out and that knowledge ultimately being lost.
Will Disney get into that? Who knows. I'd be surprised. I don't think anything Star Wars has really been that deep, either before or after the Disney acquisition.
surely you haven't heard every story there is to tell about that?
You're certainly right, it's just the only way I could think of for describing my lack of enthusiasm for another Jedi story. For scale, I saw Star Wars when I was 6 years old. Forty-seven years later and I've seen a ton of movies, shows, and fan films. Read some books and comics, played some video games and roleplaying games. And almost every single one of them featured some sort of Jedi.
It's for sure more ennui on my part than lack of creativity on theirs.
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