Rightfully so.
Back in the olden days you could get pilloried for things like this.
Pillory would be too good for these people.
SpoilerThunderbolts trailer footage
Interesting.
My main concern for this film is that everyone is going to be dour.
@fac well, everyone but Red Guardian.
And yes on Bob. Formerly Stephen Yuen.
I almost don't care if everyone is dour in Thunderbolts. In some way, it might be a nice change from the standard MCU formula of quippy and sarcastic. Having most of the characters act more self-serious will likely give it more of a CA: WS feel, and that is still one of the MCU's best films.
And as Ru pointed out, it can never be too dour with Red Guardian around.
I was open to Thunderbolts enticing me, and that trailer REALLY did. Almost to a surprising degree. I know I need to just keep away from comments sections already, but I've seen other nerds whine about the team is mostly regular-person as far as strength etc, how can they face off against Bob, and so on. But... that's really not going to stop me from seeing it. I imagine that's something the writers worked out before the trailer came out.
But yeah, as much as I don't have an issue with quippy and sarcastic, I really enjoyed the tone balance in Winter Soldier (there was humor here and there, even from Steve), but it wasn't quite in your face, and the metal armed murder machine really overshadowed a lot of the jokes anyway.
I was open to Thunderbolts enticing me, and that trailer REALLY did. Almost to a surprising degree. I know I need to just keep away from comments sections already, but I've seen other nerds whine about the team is mostly regular-person as far as strength etc, how can they face off against Bob, and so on. But... that's really not going to stop me from seeing it. I imagine that's something the writers worked out before the trailer came out.
But yeah, as much as I don't have an issue with quippy and sarcastic, I really enjoyed the tone balance in Winter Soldier (there was humor here and there, even from Steve), but it wasn't quite in your face, and the metal armed murder machine really overshadowed a lot of the jokes anyway.
You're too nice, so I'm just gonna say it; people complaining about the 'regular guys' fighting the superhero are being fucking dumb. Absolute dingletwat simpleton nonsense. If you meet these people, sit them down, give them a crayon to write with, and ask them to write down how many comic books they've ever read.
Comics are filled with plenty of normal-strength people fighting supervillains. Punisher does it. Batman does it. More importantly - lots of actual super-powered individuals don't have the kind of superpowers that would necessarily let them fight Thor/Superman-level threats, but they do anyway. The fuck is Ant-Man ACTUALLY going to do against most high tier supervillains? Get big? Yeah, that worked out really well for Goliath against Clone-Thor, didn't it.
It's a bad argument. And it's also kind of disingenuous too. Aren't like four of the main characters super-soldiers and another one is a Hulk? C'mon.
You're too nice, so I'm just gonna say it
Haw! You're absolutely right, and that's one reason I appreciate having you around. You often say the things I'm not willing, for whatever reason, to put out there. But yeah, it's a dumb argument. I imagine Batman V Superman didn't get as many such comments.
"What am I supposed to write with?"
"...I gave you a crayon."
"Oh! That's why it tasted so bad."
But knowing what I know about Bob, I immediately recognized very few even heavily-powered people have a chance at defeating him, especially when fully voided. heh. But his mind and those issues are the way I'd go, if I was writing it. The entire team seems to be made up of people with ptsd, guilt, etc. If Bob were to sympathize with anyone, and thus get talked down, I feel like this team has the best shot as far as who has been introduced into the MCU so far.
But knowing what I know about Bob, I immediately recognized very few even heavily-powered people have a chance at defeating him, especially when fully voided. heh. But his mind and those issues are the way I'd go, if I was writing it. The entire team seems to be made up of people with ptsd, guilt, etc. If Bob were to sympathize with anyone, and thus get talked down, I feel like this team has the best shot as far as who has been introduced into the MCU so far.
That's the thing. I don't get how anyone could miss the most obvious element of 'sometimes you can't beat up your problems.' Having a villain that none of the heroes could reasonably just beat the shit out of is a core element of superhero comics. We -joke- about how they always have to invent more powerful enemies for Superman specifically so he can't just beat them in a fist-fight. Many of Batman's core enemies wouldn't even -try- to fist-fight him.
Like.. I don't get any complaint about THIS movie having a bad guy that the good guys can't beat in a fight. That's not even new to THE MCU, let alone Marvel Comics, let alone superhero comics, let alone fiction in general. Jesus. Some people are just mad because they want to be mad. And coming from me, that should say something.
@theknightdamien ha!!!
But yeah, that's why I feel how Dr. Strange 'defeated' Dormammu is one of the best endings in all of the MCU. I also love how Serenity (spoiler for a 20 year old movie) is won, despite a LOT of fisticuffs, by changing the villain's mind.
By dour, I wasn't saying it would be too serious, but too many of the characters might be too - broody maybe, all PTSD victims, all angsty? Elena's detached and deadpan outlook makes her a good character, and Red Guardian being the over-the-top guy has a personality, but what the character traits of the rest? Bucky, Walker, Ghost and Taskmaster never made an impression on me as characters - as plot points and as a story beats and decent motivation they work but what defines them as characters beyond that. They just, on the surface, all seem to be the same character. I mean, I like Bucky's story arc, but as a character is he compelling?
Of course the film can change that and fill them in, and I would like to see Walker redeemed as I felt they sort of did him dirty in FatWS. But my initial reaction is that, right now at least, for a film filled with returning characters, only Elena did I really want to see more of, and the trailer didn't really change my mind on that.
I agree F&WS did Walker dirty, but I liked that. That conflict was my favorite part of that show. But I'm also ready for him to be redeemed. And same with Ghost and Taskmaster. You're right, we didn't get much character from either, but I do hope this movie changes that. Come for Yelena, and maybe stay for the rest. And Bucky, I feel like may be a supporting character to the 'team', but I do find him compelling still and I hope they have something interesting for his next stage.
I agree F&WS did Walker dirty, but I liked that. That conflict was my favorite part of that show.
It's interesting, I felt that the reaction by Sam and Bucky to him at first was understandable, but then they held his being picked to be Cap against him and did not support him in what they should have known was a tough spot to be placed in. This following WandaVision where they appeared to excuse Wanda's behavior too much.
They could have been trying to go for us to question Sam and Bucky, or question Wanda, but because they never showed the hero characters question their own behavior, my sense is that wasn't the point. Which to me was two missed opportunities in a row to say even the good guys might not always be able to get past some negative emotions immediately - but in the end they either ought to admit they were wrong or, in Wanda's case, clearly say she really didn't regret it, just that it fell apart. But the show made us think Wanda was justified because she was mourning, or Sam and Bucky were justified because Walker went off script killing the guy.
I believe, and God know I've been wrong before, that most of the team is going to get wiped out (completely annihilated) in the first 15 or 20 minutes of the movie. Possible exceptions being Yelena, USAgent and Bucky. Everyone else will be taking a dirt nap. And then before the third act, we'll see the REAL cast ... The Dark Avengers. I believe that's Val's ultimate plan.
Hence the asterisk in the title "Thunderbolts*".
USAgent? There's your Dark Captain America. Yelena? There's your Dark Black Widow. The Swordsman from the Hawkeye series? Dark Hawkeye. The tiny symbiote that jumped off Eddie Brock when he was visiting Earth 616? Dark Spider-Man. President Ross = Dark Red Hulk. Hercules = Dark Thor. I don't know about Iron Man yet, but maybe Val can try and trick Riri into it.
Most of those characters aren't evil but they can be duped.
The big showdown between Dark Avengers and whoever becomes the real Avengers will be in Secret Wars.
Of course, I'm probably wrong about all this. In which case ... carry on.
:::walks away whistling:::
@fac Right, I definitely get what you're saying. I haven't watched Wandavision since it aired but what I remember was Monica letting her off the hook in the end, and even I was like "... What? No!"
Walker didn't stand for it too much..maybe they could have made him more brash or full of himself to justify their reaction.
I dunno. I still feel that show is like book of Boba Fett where you can skip it because the title character/s is/are more or less where you left them the last time you saw them.
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