I just finished Echo. The last episode was beautiful, it nearly brought me to tears.
Watched the first three episodes, I am liking the pace so far, fine with a slow build, enjoying it overall. Liked the first two flashbacks quite a bit.
I have had a few nitpicks with some of it, but will save it until the end.
My biggest issue might not be an issue once the story is complete, but essentially, are we supposed to be rooting for Maya?
@fac heh, seems like we're at the same pace as I'm just as far.
I would think we are supposed to be rooting for her, but I definitely see why some wouldn't be. They're not showing a lot of her humanity.
Half way through the 4th episode and I am enjoying the show. It has done a great job of giving depth to a character I knew nothing about other than the Hawkeye show, Cox is turning in a wonderful performance. I really enjoy her return home and the characters it brings into the story. I love the Choctaw portrayal and flashbacks. And, of course, D'Onofrio IS the Kingpin.
We'll see how they stick the landing, but this has been my favorite MCU show since... well, Loki S2.... but, BEFORE that, since Hawkeye.
EDIT: Who is the actor that portrays "the First Choctaw?" I recognize her but I don't see her listed on the IMDB page.
DOUBLE EDIT: Found it, Julia Jones.
Also, love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs opening song. Man, I saw them several times live at small venues in Detroit 15 years ago. They put on a great show.
We'll see how they stick the landing, but this has been my favorite MCU show since... well, Loki S2.... but, BEFORE that, since Hawkeye.
I had the exact same thing where I was enjoying this and had to look at what else was before to remember, no, it was actually the last series that was great too. And I also loved She Hulk, so for me they've kinda just had one really solid dud in the last few years.
EDIT: Who is the actor that portrays "the First Choctaw?" I recognize her but I don't see her listed on the IMDB page.
DOUBLE EDIT: Found it, Julia Jones.
Also, love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs opening song. Man, I saw them several times live at small venues in Detroit 15 years ago. They put on a great show.
Well damn done! Yes, she was on The Mandalorian.
And I don't think I've ever heard that song until this show but I'm totally digging it as well. It's gonna kick off my Phase 5 playlist. (I make tons of playlists on Amazon music for series, eras, etc.)
Well done series, I liked it quite a bit.
I enjoyed the flashback to the creation story, unique to see that depicted. I disliked making the flashback in episode 3 the faux silent film, it was distracting and not needed. All of the Chocktaw parts were great, and I have been planning a trip to Oklahoma to visit many of the tribal museums there this year, if all goes well.
Episode 4's opening was heartwarming, seeing Maya and her "Uncle" bond over ice cream, and then no longer needing the sign language interpreter - which I thought might happen.
One nitpick was Maya's eyeline in the limo in Ep 1 - I found it odd they had her look in Fisk's direction more than the interpreter when Fisk was talking. I thought the automated sign language tech was very cool - I have dabbled in accessibility tech enhancements for work in the past and something like that would be fascinating to have so a person did not have to switch between the person speaking and the person interpreting.
I was rooting for Maya at the end, and the conclusion being her "fixing" Kingpin was unexpected, but nicely done. Grandpa should have been at the gathering at the end.
So here we had an ending that was not based on killing the bad guy but the importance of dealing with pain, not some crazy light show deciding who is more powerful, and a story featuring strong women, the importance of family, the importance of culture, the importance of kindness - and this is the show that they felt needed TV-MA violence at other times, which may keep younger kids from watching it. I am disappointed by that decision - this should have been PG-13 at worst and didn't need a few instances of gore for the story, and I wish they had decided to tone that down given the message of the story.
EDIT: Who is the actor that portrays "the First Choctaw?" I recognize her but I don't see her listed on the IMDB page.
DOUBLE EDIT: Found it, Julia Jones.
Also, love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs opening song. Man, I saw them several times live at small venues in Detroit 15 years ago. They put on a great show.
Well damn done! Yes, she was on The Mandalorian.
And I don't think I've ever heard that song until this show but I'm totally digging it as well. It's gonna kick off my Phase 5 playlist. (I make tons of playlists on Amazon music for series, eras, etc.)
Check out "Heads Will Roll," "Zero," "Skeletons," and "Dull Life" from their 2009 album "It's Blitz." Some of my favorites. It's a solid album all around.
Finished it, really liked it. Shout out to Bisquit, solid dude.
Check out "Heads Will Roll," "Zero," "Skeletons," and "Dull Life" from their 2009 album "It's Blitz." Some of my favorites. It's a solid album all around.
I will, thank you. I usually get to listen to music when I'm working in the mornings, so I will put those on the playlist!
I knew when they first introduced Biscuit he would be the most lovable character in a marvel show.
I finished the show. Fac, I agree the ending was wonderful. She defeated the bad guy by (at least trying to) heal his pain. I've said before but I love stories in the action genres where the main character wins by changing the bad guy's mind and this is like that for me. I also agree Skully was missing at the end. The silent style was.... Kinda fun and I appreciate they moved away from it by the end of the prologue but they could have sooner. The first people prologue was just outstanding and I was surprised it started that way. I hope the producers were proud to show that. And Moundville too! Most shocking was they had Tatanka Means and only used him for a couple shots in one episode!
I get why they had Maya looking at Fisk rather than the interpreter. At that point we get how it works and they focused on the scene between the two characters rather than adhering to logic. I can let that go. But I do agree it wasn't necessary to make it MA. I guess they were trying to appeal to the Daredevil fans who feel bloody knuckles are essential for a good story but... It isn't true and certainly not crucial for this story.
I also loved the suit and its significance. I know, like in The Marvels, the personal and significant costume with familial meaning will be replaced by whatever in her next appearance but whatever. I went into this show hoping for a figure of Maya in a comic accurate costume and now I definitely do not want that at all heh.
The show was far from perfect and it isn't my favorite marvel show but I enjoyed watching and was always eager to see what happens next. It wasn't as good as I hoped but better than I expected. It had some outstanding moments and ended well, even if it didn't fully earn that ending. Some of the relationships could have been better fleshed out, particularly Maya and Fisk. Yes they showed a lot of scenes between them but I wanted more of Maya's character. But even still, I enjoyed it. The cast was outstanding, Cox turned in some great moments, and I can't wait for her to come back. Presumably in Born Again.
I always thought Defenders on Netflix should have been an ongoing, encompassing ensemble show. I felt like some of those series would have really benefited to be part of a greater whole. They don't always have to connect the plots of all the heroes, but crossovers here and there until they all team up in the finale, but until then you get the plots of JJ, Luke, and Iron Fist seasons 2 and DD season 3 all running together. So part of me would be really happy if Born Again has a bit of that. Even if each character appears in one episode each, but also Punisher and now Maya, White Tiger (the whole family, which I also feel would make an outstanding show), and Moon Knight.
And... Spider-Man.
Anyone who enjoyed this show, even just kinda, and hasn't tried Reservation Dogs, you owe it to yourself to get on that show tonight. You'll see some familiar faces and get some outstanding stories.
I'd be happy if they added Echo to the "Young Female Avengers" - given I came out of Hawkeye not that excited by the character, I do want to see more of her and more of her becoming an actual hero. Maybe DD will work with her.
One thing that would have helped me a bit is why did Fisk take an interest in her at so young an age - as portrayed, she was just the daughter of one of his henchmen, even if a high up henchmen. I was hoping for more of a reason why he cared. For instance the scene with the ice cream guy - if that had been prefaced with Fisk reluctantly picking her up because her Dad was busy but didn't know her too well, and he reacted as he did despite not knowing her, and she reacted as she did, that's a great origin for them together. (That's my head cannon)
This would have been a nice 2 hour movie, and I am glad they didn't make it 6 or 8 episodes just to do so.
SpoilerEcho season finaleThe silent style was.... Kinda fun and I appreciate they moved away from it by the end of the prologue but they could have sooner.
Two things about it bugged me - a personal annoyance is using silent or black and white film to evoke a time in the past, like the 1880s - especially after vibrant color for the cave and lacrosse prologues - and when silent film really only existed for a couple of decades much later than that, so it is a anachronism to use it for 1880s, when that is really 1920s. It is just goofy to me to invoke the media at the time to imply an era, but if you do it, make it accurate - it would be like using low-res VHS to invoke the 1950's (which weren't black and white either despite TV from the time).
Then they started to transition the effect as it went along by adding sound effects (the horses in the water for instance timed to the image) along with the music before it went wide screen, meaning it wasn't a silent film that Maya or someone had seen (like maybe she liked silent films as a kid as she didn't have to rely on subtitles or felt she was missing anything), but an actual event being portrayed. Just was too obviously meant to be "filmmaking" I thought.
I agree about it being good they didn't make it longer.
As far as Fisk, I also agree about that needing something more. Like I said, the ending was great but I didn't feel it was entirely earned and you probably hit on why. I was thinking... Some.of the pieces are there but it was entirely linked or spelled out. Fisk saw himself in Maya and apparently always did, and her kicking the ice cream guy probably cemented that bond. But I wonder if he saw her dad as neglectful or even bad for her? Even if he kinda fabricated that in his mind to justify his relationship with her all the way through to her dad's death. Her dad was like his dad, she is like him, they're the same and can only trust each other etc. it's sorta there but it's not entirely clear.
I can't remember any leaks etc I've read on Born Again, and it doesn't matter all that much since they're reconfiguring a lot about it apparently, but I really want to take Matt's appearance here as a hint of what's to come. I saw some people asking why he left the at he did and taking that as bad writing. And maybe it was, but I took it to be that he recognized she wasn't like the others. Sure, she probably wasn't going to stop until he was either dead or gone, but she wasn't the villain the other guys were. He wasn't going all out on the fight like he normally might, and I'm hoping they go more into that if she shows up on Born Again.
If she is part of the new Avengers, I would be thrilled. Absolutely. But I also hope she is a part of whatever street level group forms. And yes, they really ought to do a new Defenders. I didn't hate the Netflix one, I enjoyed the interactions a lot and as a fan of that Elektra, I was all in on her plot with Matt. Yeah the Hand wasn't great and and it was clunky writing here and there, but I still liked/not loved it. But I would absolutely be for MS taking a swing at something similar.
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