but the Marvel Legends fanbase is much larger than the Transformers fanbase (of which I am also a part of) so even not including those people, you still have plenty of other people willing to pay for something cool. I agree with the people who say that a $300 Giant Man with Pym, Yellowjacket, normal sized GM and Wasp would have funded already. They absolutely learned the wrong lesson from EoV. They didn't have to strip it down and offer something as cheap as possible. Go back to what worked for Galactus and Sentinel. Reasonable price, awesome six inch figures that go with the Haslab.
Not that this is important but there is absolutely no way the Marvel Legends fanbase is bigger than Transformers..
While I think the $300 Giant-Man idea is a pretty great value, I'm not sure if it'll be funded by now either. A large part of what worked for Sentinel & Galactus was that it was Sentinel & Galactus. Not to mention a month's worth of negative discourse around the idea that a Wasp & Yellowjacket is locked behind a $300 paywall.
I don't think any of us nerds are in a position to say whether Marvel or Transformers toys sell more around the world :p
Several years ago (And this WAS a ways back) Jesse Falcon said at a panel that the biggest selling toy line in the world was Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. By a country mile. No one else even came close.
That ... surprised me. But I guess it shouldn't have. Girls wanted them just as bad as boys.
Never underestimate the power of pink.
I'd say we are more value-sensitive, not price sensitive. We're not just going to buy anything because they offer it.
I think you nailed it. That's a great and accurate distinction.
"Value" is subjective. The more the prices go up, the "value" many of the outspoken negative fans perceive dries up. Becomes more and more nitpicky.
As someone who has collected Legends for 22 years, the figures we're getting are phenomenal. We'd all love some additional paint apps or a unique sculpt more often. Some of my favorite all-time Legends came out in the past 2 years.
I think there's still an aversion on the ML's team to an honest post mortem of the EoV.
I said it at the time and I'm still saying it:
There's nothing wrong with pissing some people off. I don't think it hurts crowdfunding campaigns, which only need to succeed with a small audience. I don't think the EoV was hurt by people being pissed off or negative Youtube videos.
I think EoV failed because the team couldn't articulate a clear vision to 10,000 people that was louder than the people who were pissed off.
The campaign, if fully unlocked, would have included Robbie Reyes, RR Ghost Rider, Mephisto, Goblin Queen, and Damion Hellstrom.
There's no clear theme there aside from "spooky".
Nobody would want separate Robbie and GR figures. They wasted $25 of the price right there. They don't display together. Marvel Legends almost never makes secret identities so there's no place for Robbie to go.
Then there's Mephisto. Weird version. Okay. He is at least an enemy of Robbie's Avengers but they aren't really closely connected. That reveal shook things. It's not that it pissed people off. That's okay. Pissing people off isn't a threat to funding. But it's imprecise vision.
Then there's Maddie. WTF?! She's not related to anything else in the Haslab and the costume comes from one 2015 comic. It's not even a 616 Maddie. Someone Robbie's never met -- and not even the version from his universe.
By the time Damion rolled out, it was off the rails. He's met Robbie once but looked totally different and this is a mobile video game version. How did we end up with a Gamerverse figure?!
For comparison:
If Giant-Man was $300 and included Ant Man Pym in a lab coat, regular sized Giant Man, Yellowjacket, and Hank Pym Wasp? Okay!
If Giant-Man was $300 and leaned into the Avengers Anniversary theme? Okay! Maybe 60s Black Widow with the mask and fishnets, green Wonder Man, Swordsman, and Rick Jones! There's a theme!
If Giant-Man was $300 and included Micronauts Bug, Slingers Hornet, Red Locust from Captain America, and MCU GotG Holiday Special Mantis? Okay. That's a cute theme for a capsule or a wave and might diversify interest so different customers get different figures! But it's not a rational theme for a single purchase. Diversifying a Haslab's offerings is bad!
It's not any coherent sub-collection! It might as well be all red characters! Might as well do Erik the Red, first appearance Carol Danvers Ms. Marvel, Carnage Silver Surfer, and Mephisto! All because Giant-Man is red?
Again, you can piss off a million people if you appeal to 10k. But 10k people need a coherent vision so they can say, "Screw you guys, the Legends team as a plan!" It's only if there's no coherent vision that the doubters matter.
I agree with H-Bird that this is both great analysis and maybe a little off-base about the negative chatter. This place, even at its worst, is semi-sane. That EoV thread was as big of a cesspool as I can remember in 18 years on the board. There were folks in that thread who went from supporting the project to hoping it would fail. There's no way to say whether that cost Hasbro 100 backers or the success of the project, but I lean toward the latter. The Rancor was the same way.
There were folks in that thread who went from supporting the project to hoping it would fail.
It's funny because I know this is true but it was almost the opposite journey for me. Not that I started out hoping it would fail but I was NOT on board. And then slowly but surely I came around and backed the project because I figured out a way I could display it that wouldn't eat up a ton of shelf space. I was bummed when it didn't fund.
Maybe tomorrow they'll make one of the tiers Madelyne Pryor!!!
I don’t know enough about Transformers to comment on them specifically, but I think a lot of ML fans tend to have corners of the Marvel Universe they collect and only cherry pick outside of. I see a lot of people who will say they’re not interested in anything revealed from a stream or panel, “Saved me a lot of money with this one!” That’s not a criticism, it’s just different from my mindset which is I want EVERYONE from the comics. I know they won’t get to them all, but as many as possible. I’d rather have one good figure of a character and move on than several attempts to get it just right, it’s incredibly rare for me to get a new character and feel strongly that it wasn’t the version I wanted. But an MCU only fan, a cherry-picker, an X-Men fan, a comic fan, a 100% completist, they’re all Marvel Legends customers so the number goes up, but it’s likely impossible to make something that appeals to everyone, whereas with G.I. Joe, if you’re a fan of the line you probably want the majority of what gets made as it’s almost all from the same take on the property, especially now that the movie has passed.
I sympathize with what Dwight said. We all know the toxicity quick trigger most fan bases have. They are sorta damned if they do; damned if they don't.
Well, it's still within the margins for a Haslab campaign that has never moved backward, but I'm bummed that the law of averages says it isn't likely to hit any tier unlocks. Shame, that Skrull head is fire. I'm in for at least three if it closes around 11K units backed.
The value is there at $200 given that the market price for the BAF has been around that same price for years now. I can't believe this is even a question!
Money is really no object for me and I've gone back and bought every old figure that wasn't already upgraded, but I skipped that BAF because it looks a little wonky compared to newer figures. But this HasLab blows it completely away in every respect. Kinda looks like we won't be getting that skrull head, but hopefully people come to their senses and we get there.
Has an action figure of this size ever been made with this much articulation? I'm unaware of any.
I will say, and this goes for all action figure crowdfunds, if the number of backers isn’t met for the tiers but the campaign goes through, I wish the manufacturer would give the option for backers to pay an extra 25 dollars or however much to get them added on, I would gladly pay it if the choice was an additional 25 bones or never getting the Skrull head, for example. If there’s no interest then that’s one thing but at least give the option. The MOTU: Origins Eternia was funded and a tier unlocked, they weren’t that far off from Tier 2 but I haven’t heard any word about that figure since, I guess it’s just off the table permanently.
I told Dan that I barely have any Avengers, but I still might back this because it is that cool.
I guess this will make me break down and get the WCA set.
I would love to know more about how the whole Wasp figure release was discussed after the EoV didn't fund. I'm sure they were already planning for/working on the Avengers 60th subline and this HasLab before the EoV even launched, given what we know of their lead times.
Was a potential Hank and Janet 2-pack originally pitched for the main 60th Anniversary line, and then they got cold feet about including it with the other announced figures once they saw so many places speculating that those two figures might be tiers for the expected Giant-Man? Because Dan might be right, if they released that before the HasLab, some folks might have gotten worked up about them being sold separately...
Or, was it meant to be part of this HasLab and then pulled, both because they wanted to hit the $200 price point and also because they worried about the pushback on figures as tiers? I don't think there would have been too much outcry about 1st App Wasp as a tier, as she is so closely tied to Hank, much like there wasn't for the tiers for the Sentinel and Galactus as they also fit (other than that Doom head instead of the still AWOL Air Walker).
Because while I feel like 1st Appearance Wasp could have been a solo release, they (probably correctly) wanted to do a 2-pack with Hank, and then got into their own heads about when to announce it.
I was also thinking about the scale of Giant-Man, which is still keeping me for going in. While I agree the ToyBiz Giant-Man is more or less "only OK" at this point and this is a great upgrade, I think mentally I never looked at the ToyBiz Giant-Man as insufficient in terms of scale - which I felt about both the BAF Galactus and then the Marvel Universe version - so a huge Galactus was something I had wanted since the first BAF and jumped on it. I only bought the Sentinel once the MasterMold head was included, as I was OK with the MU Sentinels I had, even if a little undersized. If I didn't already have the ToyBiz version, I suspect I'd be more inclined to get this one. (And still might...)
And not to rehash the EoV (but I guess I will), I think the main flaw was that these are meant to be centerpieces of a collection or display - anyone with a half-dozen X-Men figures of any era could see adding a Sentinel to that; anyone who has one of the FF teams could see adding a Galactus; and obviously anyone with classic Avengers might want a Giant Man; but the EoV was kind of left to stand on its own as we only had the one Ghost Rider with bike in the Hasbro era and virtually no GR villains. The other three campaigns added to already existing teams/factions, EoV was essentially the start of a new one, and then the tiers were 2/3rds barely connected. Apart from the stand-alone Blaze figure and I guess the Orb, there was not already a GR shelf with Blaze, Ketch, Phanotm Rider, Vengeance, Blackheart etc. to add the EoV to and complete it - unless you planned to have Robbie with the Avengers. I feel the HasLabs work when it is taking what we have collected already to the next level (which is why I do think an X-Men mansion/danger room or a Quinjet or a Fantasticar would sell) and you see in your mind how cool it will look together with your current figures.
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