Posted by: @panthercult

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For example - a Serpent society set that could include characters that would require some intense new tooling like Anaconda, Sidewinder, Bushmaster and Death Adder.   

I think this is a viable use for HasLab. Not just the Serpent Sqad (which I totally want), but as a way to fund unique sculpts at no risk.

On the other hand, they released MODOK to mainline, so what do I know? 

Posted by: @fletch

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On the other hand, they released MODOK to mainline, so what do I know? 

Unfortunately the sales data they got back on MODOK was that people don't want to pay that price as it went on heavy clearance.    In fact,  I think Blob is the only oversized (I almost typed overpriced - oops) offering that didn't hit clearance price eventually.

A character like Cameron Hodge is also nearly anonymous compared to MODOK. MODOK has (had?) his own TV show and appeared in an MCU movie.

There's definitely a thin line between BAF-sized figures viable at retail and not.

Blob hasn't hit clearance - yet. And he may not because production numbers are down from MODOK era. Back then (what, two years ago?) costs were lower and they thought the TV series was going to mean something. I haven't seen Squadron Supreme2-pack  marked down either (except briefly on Pulse), and I thought that would be instant clearance, so maybe lower production is working.

You can't compare NECA to Hasbro - NECA works with niche (aka cheaper) licenses (or only have a narrowly defined license, like 7" scale or 18" scale) and they have waaaaaaay less overhead than Hasbro.

Major retailers must have a different deal with NECA (and possibly Funko and Super7) than they do with Hasbro - I wouldn't be surprised if the Walmart, Best Buy & Target product from these companies is there on consignment.

Think of the turnover in the collector section of Target, which has a ton of NECA stuff - there's rarely any clearance. Meanwhile, any ML Wave is lucky to get a month in Target before they get marked down. The movie stuff is usually blown out before the film is out or its theatrical run has ended (never mind waiting for home video).

Saying the "big Marvel Universe figures from 10 (?) years ago got into stores" isn't a good argument because those figures would be exponentially more expensive to make now. Look at Super-Adaptoid - that thing is hideous and even with a lower production run, will get clearanced, just like the 12" figures it is frankensteined from.

The idea that there will NEVER be Haslab figure box sets is ridiculous. As has been pointed out here, there aren't many more large (Galactus & Sentinel scale) figures or vehicles left that would easily fund, and more than anything, they want and NEED these things to fund.

For Avengers 60th Hasbro is pushing $50/$60 two-packs into retail. They aen't going to sell. Every Target I've been in for the last month is deep in all of them, it's only a matter of time before they blow them out. Every Amazon box set gets clearanced. Basically, ML multipacks at retail are no longer reliably viable due to cost, but cheaper Titan figure box sets are.

Legends in general is on the ropes - costs are killing Hasbro, Disney/Marvel forcing them to do modern characters and 100% new scuplts for movie figures no one wants (which decimates their budgets) while the classic comic character selection shrinks, is also hurting (example: the new carded Spidey wave; the DD kinda sells, the Rose and Tarantula sell (!!) at retail, but IME the Spideys are pegwarmers).

I'm hearing there will be more focus on top tier characters, meaning fewer long-wanted deep cuts. See the single boxed movie figure releases they announced today and expect more of that - total reuse.

For all these reasons, I expect ML box sets  will inevitably become Haslabs (and/or Pulse exclusives).

Finally, I was told conflicting info about the Avengers Haslab reveal. I first heard at NYCC, but they may just be showing it publicly for the first time there after launching campaign during Pulsecon. It would be at Marvel booth, because Hasbro is not having one.

I think NYCC is more likely, ony because Pulsecon will have a bunch of $$$ eating reveals that usually hit pre-sale shortly thereafter. NYCC gives everybody's wallet a mental breather.

Who is your source? Timmy from the local Comic Rack?

Posted by: @panthercult

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Posted by: @enigmaticclarity

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If they offer something as a Haslab that could easily just be a Pulse or Fan Channel exclusive then they're diluting the concept, and every impression I've gotten from everything they've ever said tells me they keenly understand this. 

 

I'm not suggesting it would be something that could "just as easily be done" as retail box set.   You acknowledged your ignorance about the Legion of Super Heroes pack from Mattel -  but that pack was a set of 12 figures - one of which was a 10 inch tall Colossal Boy.   No retailer is ever stocking a 12 pack of figures - so that was not the kind of project that could be done at retail 'just as easily'.   

 

The suggestion here would be something like a multi-pack that could get a swath of wanted or needed characters out in one fell swoop -  maybe that would require extra tooling that would be harder to budget into a retail wave.

 

For example - a Serpent society set that could include characters that would require some intense new tooling like Anaconda, Sidewinder, Bushmaster and Death Adder.   Such a set could also include some less tooling forward members like Asp, Black Mamba and Diamond Back.      That's the kind of set that would be a tough sell at retail - especially with the mark up necessary for the unique tooling for some of them... but could make sense as Project offering.   Maybe include a battle damaged Captain America or a Serpent Crown scarlet witch or something for them to work against.     If you want to add in some bonus tiers it could be an extra set of stretchy arms for Anaconda,  alternate head sculpts for Bushmaster or Cottonmouth or whatever.   

 

It's the kind of thing that would be tough for a retail partner to sign up for but could generate enough interest to get a HasLab type crowd fund effort moving.    Give me 9 figures for $300 and I'll take the up charge to knock out a huge segment of my want list one quick effort and get the attention that figures like Anaconda, Bushmaster and Death Adder need but would struggle to find in any retail format.

 

I don't think that's the impossible dream you think it is -  especially if they can't get other oversized products off the ground.    And let's be honest there is not a single vehicle HasLab that will fund and I'm not sure there's a ton of giant figure projects that will work out for them either.

 

This, or the Sh'iar Imperial Guard (ala the LOSH set from Mattel) are two of my biggest wants.  I would be down for either as a Haslab. 

I really think Giant-Man might be a good test for the ML team, and Haslab, for what kind of tolerance there is in the fandom for more expansive "sets" of figures. 

Giant-Man will probably have to be very large, maybe even too large (personal opinion) for what he comes in at in the comics for this Haslab.   That could deter some buyers, but maybe a smaller Giant-Man with a couple extra figures (6 total instead of the usual 4) could be feasible.   Then if something like that did well maybe it could lead to further expansive sets down the line, because as someone pointed out a larger (10+) figure set at modern 6" pricing for retail isn't probably going to be a big seller to the big retailers.

But what do I know, I'm just spitballing and hoping for more crazy ass large team boxsets.

Posted by: @jroug

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Blob hasn't hit clearance - yet. And he may not because production numbers are down from MODOK era. Back then (what, two years ago?) costs were lower and they thought the TV series was going to mean something. I haven't seen Squadron Supreme2-pack  marked down either (except briefly on Pulse), and I thought that would be instant clearance, so maybe lower production is working.

You can't compare NECA to Hasbro - NECA works with niche (aka cheaper) licenses (or only have a narrowly defined license, like 7" scale or 18" scale) and they have waaaaaaay less overhead than Hasbro.

Major retailers must have a different deal with NECA (and possibly Funko and Super7) than they do with Hasbro - I wouldn't be surprised if the Walmart, Best Buy & Target product from these companies is there on consignment.

Think of the turnover in the collector section of Target, which has a ton of NECA stuff - there's rarely any clearance. Meanwhile, any ML Wave is lucky to get a month in Target before they get marked down. The movie stuff is usually blown out before the film is out or its theatrical run has ended (never mind waiting for home video).

Saying the "big Marvel Universe figures from 10 (?) years ago got into stores" isn't a good argument because those figures would be exponentially more expensive to make now. Look at Super-Adaptoid - that thing is hideous and even with a lower production run, will get clearanced, just like the 12" figures it is frankensteined from.

The idea that there will NEVER be Haslab figure box sets is ridiculous. As has been pointed out here, there aren't many more large (Galactus & Sentinel scale) figures or vehicles left that would easily fund, and more than anything, they want and NEED these things to fund.

For Avengers 60th Hasbro is pushing $50/$60 two-packs into retail. They aen't going to sell. Every Target I've been in for the last month is deep in all of them, it's only a matter of time before they blow them out. Every Amazon box set gets clearanced. Basically, ML multipacks at retail are no longer reliably viable due to cost, but cheaper Titan figure box sets are.

Legends in general is on the ropes - costs are killing Hasbro, Disney/Marvel forcing them to do modern characters and 100% new scuplts for movie figures no one wants (which decimates their budgets) while the classic comic character selection shrinks, is also hurting (example: the new carded Spidey wave; the DD kinda sells, the Rose and Tarantula sell (!!) at retail, but IME the Spideys are pegwarmers).

I'm hearing there will be more focus on top tier characters, meaning fewer long-wanted deep cuts. See the single boxed movie figure releases they announced today and expect more of that - total reuse.

For all these reasons, I expect ML box sets  will inevitably become Haslabs (and/or Pulse exclusives).

Finally, I was told conflicting info about the Avengers Haslab reveal. I first heard at NYCC, but they may just be showing it publicly for the first time there after launching campaign during Pulsecon. It would be at Marvel booth, because Hasbro is not having one.

I think NYCC is more likely, ony because Pulsecon will have a bunch of $$$ eating reveals that usually hit pre-sale shortly thereafter. NYCC gives everybody's wallet a mental breather.

also people have to realize super adaptoid is not a regular release. Amazon didn't get him, nor did target or walmart.  He's fan-channel.  Online stores that don't have to worry about shelf space, pulse, and shop disney. 

He'll probably go on clearance, but the turn around will be 6months to a year, not targets like 3 week thing.

Posted by: @enforcer

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Who is your source? Timmy from the local Comic Rack?

You can be better.

Posted by: @jroug

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The idea that there will NEVER be Haslab figure box sets is ridiculous.

Never is a strong word, but you won't see one for quite a while.  Steve Evans or Ryan Ting aren't going to tell the Hasbro execs anytime soon that the Marvel barrel is empty and they need to start scraping the bottom of it.

I generally do agree that they will hit that point, but not for another five to ten years at least.  You'll see them try a Quinjet or Blackbird, probably even a diorama or two, before Steve or Ryan make the Marvel Legends team the first of the teams at Hasbro to admit defeat on the Haslab large item concept.

That's an interesting thought.    Unless the threshhold number for the project is really low I am highly skeptical that a Quinjet or Blackbird concept would succeed as a HasLab.     I'm a pretty avid Legends collector but space is already at such a premium that it's very difficult to imagine a scenario where a vehicle large enough to hold an entire team of Legends figures would make sense as a purchase.   And I think they have to be careful about putting desired characters as incentives for those projects since that can backfire.    And as someone else pointed out earlier -  vehicles make sense for a line like G.I. Joe and even Star Wars where the vehicles are actual combatants in the battles,  but in a superhero setting those vehicles are for transport and much less integral to the action sequences that drive displays.      I'm betting if the the Legends team tries the Quinject and it fails and then tries the Blackbird and it fails they will pivot faster than you seem to think they will.

Posted by: @panthercult

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That's an interesting thought.    Unless the threshhold number for the project is really low I am highly skeptical that a Quinjet or Blackbird concept would succeed as a HasLab.     I'm a pretty avid Legends collector but space is already at such a premium that it's very difficult to imagine a scenario where a vehicle large enough to hold an entire team of Legends figures would make sense as a purchase.   And I think they have to be careful about putting desired characters as incentives for those projects since that can backfire.    And as someone else pointed out earlier -  vehicles make sense for a line like G.I. Joe and even Star Wars where the vehicles are actual combatants in the battles,  but in a superhero setting those vehicles are for transport and much less integral to the action sequences that drive displays.      I'm betting if the the Legends team tries the Quinject and it fails and then tries the Blackbird and it fails they will pivot faster than you seem to think they will.

I agree almost entirely, and I was the one who pointed out how GI Joe and Star Wars vehicles are the functional equivalent of superpowers in the minds of Marvel fans.  Marvel will run out of Haslabs first, but I don't think it will be for a while--and it may be after a string of failures as you're suggesting.

But I'm convinced Steve and Ryan would rather experience those failures than tell whichever exec brainstormed HasLab as a premium, large item brand that maybe they can lower expectations and re-brand it as HasHovel, or whatever name implies something less grand than a lab research project.

Posted by: @enigmaticclarity

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But I'm convinced Steve and Ryan would rather experience those failures than tell whichever exec brainstormed HasLab as a premium, large item brand that maybe they can lower expectations and re-brand it as HasHovel, or whatever name implies something less grand than a lab research project.

I guess this is the piece of your argument that I wasn't twigging to  -  but what you say makes sense.   We are of like mind on this after all    😉 

I still think Leopardon is the ace up Hasbro's sleeve as a Haslab.

First of all, the comics version is a bit smaller than a Sentinel, without the ridiculous space constraint of needing a car inside a head. So it fits inside a space budget.

Second, it's a Spider-Man and Spider-Verse set piece and you can bundle in other Spider-Verse figures along with a Toei Spider-Man with unmasked alt head, trigger fingers, and a gun. (Gun-toting Spidey was probably not viable at retail.) i do think even if most tiers are other Spider-Men, this is essentially the best chance to do Leopardon's nemesis, Dr. Monster. Maybe you can do one of the show's monsters as a companion release at shipping too. Also, more Spider-Verse variants adjacent characters around then like Peter Palmer Spiderman (no hyphen, blue spider on back) or Nightbird Gwen to also fill out Squadron Supreme collections.

Third, Japan. They spend hundreds for smaller mech figures. Much like the last two Transformers Haslabs banked on close to 50% of their numbers from Asian territories, Leopardon could succeed largely on Japanese sales without even factoring in the Spider-Man/Spider-Verse U.S. market.

Fourth, quirky internet appeal. Japanese Spidey is essentially a meme in western countries.

I feel like this is a hell of a lot less obvious than Galactus or Sentinel but would probably outperform a lot of stuff that is more recognizable or famous than Leopardon. I think it has more going for it than a Quinjet or Blackbird and would likely even outperform Giant-Man because of a lot of quirky factors.

Posted by: @pg-superfan

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I still think Leopardon is the ace up Hasbro's sleeve as a Haslab.

I seriously had to google that.  I hope that is indeed the haslab.

I'll save a lot of money.

Yes let's go even more obscure this time.