How about a HasLab centered around a giant, articulated Phoenix Force and related hosts? 

The project could be contain a large Phoenix to depict the Force on it's own, then also include a smaller effect that you can plug individual characters (Jean, Rachel, Necrom, Echo, etc) into, plus all kinds of power blasts and effects.

EDIT: And, while I'm at it, Hasbro could release 2-Packs of the Imperial Guard, Starjammers, X-Men, and Excalibur characters to coincide with it's release.

Posted by: @sepster

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How about a HasLab centered around a giant, articulated Phoenix Force and related hosts? 

 

The project could be contain a large Phoenix to depict the Force on it's own, then also include a smaller effect that you can plug individual characters (Jean, Rachel, Necrom, Echo, etc) into, plus all kinds of power blasts and effects.

 

EDIT: And, while I'm at it, Hasbro could release 2-Packs of the Imperial Guard, Starjammers, X-Men, and Excalibur characters to coincide with it's release.

This is a solid suggestion, and sorta fits with the idea of moving Haslabs to themed sets of figures with a big centerpiece that wouldn't really work at retail. A big articulated Phoenix raptor + various hosts. I'll throw the Phoenix Five out there as a group that would fit well here, even though I recently read AvX for the first time and sorta hated it. The designs of the Five were fun though.

Posted by: @enigmaticclarity

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Why is that BAF in so much lower supply than other BAFs from the 2000s, does anyone know?  Was distribution limited, or did Hasbro just not make as many figures as Toy Biz did when they first took over the license?  I've always wondered, so if anyone knows why there are so few Fin Fang Fooms that aren't knockoffs please do share.

I think partly it's because Fin Fang Foom required 9 figures to build it -  significantly more than a normal BAF wave (tied for the most with Giant Man)   and included 4 versions of the Hulk, plus the Son of Hulk and She Hulk.... it was a lot of Hulk to buy to build.    I think fewer people went all in to build the thing maybe...

Even I would have a tough time justifying an exorbitant cost for a giant flame effect - locking demanded figures behind that would cause... nerd rage. As seen previously.

I think the only other viable HasLab would be Foom. That original figure was great for the time, and as Norm said - is showing it's age. I think it would manage to fund, but not with the numbers Galactus did. 

Past that - I think Hasbro is dipping back into vehicle territory and I am not looking forward to the insufferable response to another one of those campaigns. 

Apocalypse might make for a nice figure, but the demand for a large scale figure of that character... I don't know. I have the BAF, and it's nice. Half the time I forget I own it and it's not my go-to Apocalypse for any figure photos I do. It might do OK because he is an "A" list villain, for sure. It's just not his iconic form - I think even when Toy Biz did the baf it was a bit of a head scratcher after the Sentinel. 

Posted by: @sepster

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How about a HasLab centered around a giant, articulated Phoenix Force and related hosts? 

 

The project could be contain a large Phoenix to depict the Force on it's own, then also include a smaller effect that you can plug individual characters (Jean, Rachel, Necrom, Echo, etc) into, plus all kinds of power blasts and effects.

 

EDIT: And, while I'm at it, Hasbro could release 2-Packs of the Imperial Guard, Starjammers, X-Men, and Excalibur characters to coincide with it's release.

This idea is genius.    I would LOVE a set like this and would make it the centerpiece of my X-Men display.   This would be 100x better than the Blackbird.   

I know people are down on figures included as add ons -  but a version of Dark Phoenix - maybe with translucent hair -  and then Rachel as Phoenix would be necessary -   but first announce a version of Rachel at retail so people don't lose their minds about a much needed character locked behind a paywall - and then make the HasLab version just slightly different.... and maybe include a tier that's D'Ken and the M'kraan crystal.

And then, like you say -  a 2-pack of Fang Wolverine and Hepzibah,  maybe a wave that includes Deathbird and Raza,  Rachel Summers and the inevitable Wolverine in Space Suit...    that would be amazing.

Anyone thinking we might see an announcement of classic 1st app style Wasp and classic Yellow Jacket 2-pack to coincide with or peak some more interest in Giant Man. I'm sure the Vision in an avengers themed wave perhaps would do the same as well.

If I were a betting man I'd bet we see 1st appearance Wasp at PulseCon and Pym Yellowjacket in 2024 as either part of the annual Avengers BAF wave or released Fan Channel when Giant-Man is shipped, similar to Galactus and  Firelord. 

I can also see Hasbro tease Yellowjacket at PulseCon, then reveal it's actually Rita DeMara Yellowjacket, which would be cool anyways, then tease us with clues to Pym Yellowjacket being released in 2024.

Now that we already have Galactus & the Sentinel, I feel like Foom would be the only ML I would want in Haslab format personally.   Unless you start getting into celestials or something maybe.  Giant Man looks awesome, I love this $200 campaign - but I'm passing because I've just always preferred Pym as Ant-Man and am perfectly happy with that last Target exclusive figure. 

Vehicles would be a different story - I would LOVE a Punisher Van, but we know that's never happening.  Fantasticar, quinjet, etc... would all be welcomed, but yeah there's no chance of any of that now.

@enforcer I think the Phoenix is an interesting idea that's more than a fire effect with articulation.

As far as hosts go, there are quite a few without tapping the big ones.

Off the cuff:

Korvus Rook'shir, Thane Son of Thanos, Giraud, Diamanda Nero, Captain America (Phoenix Tournament), Spider-Man (Variant cover), Cosmic Ghost Rider, American Eagle (Squadron Supreme), 1 Million BC Phoenix.

I'd lay odds none of those ever hit retail.

I'd think you could probably do the Phoenix Force and 1M BC incarnation plus another 4 as tiers and sell it for under $200.

I'm in for a Phoenix Force! Hasbro could finally get back around to releasing White Crown Phoenix, or go all out and do the black/red version and other versions of just Phoenix!

Phoenix Saga is worthy of a HasLab. Jean Grey in Space Suit, Jean Grey in cocoon, a giant water splash effect could be a tier - the new Funko Phoenix cover page edition I bought exactly because it did this (nicely). And if Sideshow can do their ginormous and gorgeous statues at $900, a HasLab at half that or less would be awesome.

I wonder if multi-packs without figures as tiers would work.  The tiers could be cool added accessories, but acknowledging the pricing for figures goes into the base price by putting them all in the base offering could work.

Phoenix Force would be interesting, but again, it would depend on the scale for me. If I can't get it in my X-Men display, what would be the point?

I wouldn't be so sure about Marvel/Disney nixing the Punisher van. Before the board crashed, we had a thread about Marvel putting Frank on the back burner, but there isn't a ton of evidence to support that. Punisher had an ongoing book from 2022-2023 and another Punisher title starts in November. If the Hasbro team determines that a Punisher van is the most viable HasLab in 2024, that's what we'll get.

Posted by: @stephenwdavis

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As someone who works as a data scientist for a living the idea of who is an A-List, B-List, etc character is not something that is subjective for me, personally. I use hard data based upon number of comic appearances. I don't care about movie, tv or animation appearances because quite frankly those versions of the characters are often so different than the source material that they can rarely even be considered the same character.

Based upon comic appearances, here is some hard data. The only 2 comic book characters that have appeared in over 20,000 issues are Batman and Donald Duck. For Marvel only:

15,000+ issues: Only Spider-Man and Wolverine

10,000+ issues: Captain America, Cyclops, Iron Man, Storm

5,000+ issues: 17 more characters (in order: Beast, Thor, Iceman, Thing, Jean Grey, Hulk, Colossus, Professor X, Angel, Nightcrawler, Human Torch, Mr Fantastic, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Invisible Woman, Emma Frost, Magneto)

That's probably where the line for "A-List" ends.

1,000+ issues: a total of 165 marvel characters make this list - this is your "B-List".

There are nearly 23,000 different characters who have appeared in Marvel comics over the years and the vast majority have under 100 comic appearances. Generally, villain appearances are far lower than hero appearances because the hero doesn't fight the same villain all of the time.

There are 22 remaining characters who have at least 1,000 comic appearances who have never been made in Marvel Legends form (in order they are Rockslide, Pixie, Anole, Phoenix Force, Armor, Robbie Robertson, Edwin Jarvis, Husk, Magma, Rick Jones, Cypher, Crystal, Hellion, Sage, Betty Brant, Valerie Cooper, Madelyne Pryor, Surge, Jim Hammond, Liz Allan and Mercury).

In terms of characters mentioned recently in this thread as HasLab candidates (in no certain order):

Apocalypse 1,742 appearances

Fin Fang Foom 382 appearances

Giganto the Mole Monster 108 appearances (my favorite HasLab candidate!)

Arishem the Judge 190 appearances

Dragon Man 438 appearances

Mangog 103 appearances

Living Tribunal 172 appearances

For what it's worth, Hank Pym has appeared in 3,680 issues. Galactus in 1,719 issues, Sentinels in 2,504 issues. Robbie Reyes in 239 issues.

Sorry, I could go into far more detail but don't want to derail the thread. Appearance/Issue counts based upon most recent data available and updated weekly.

It's a fascinating conversation because without funding a focus group, we'll never know the truth. It harkens back to pre-internet debates.

As a data-interested guy, this is a great starting point. As with sports, though, I think the best approach is raw data + the eye test. I love Kitty Pryde, but there's no way she, Angel, or Invisible Woman are more popular/recognizable than Daredevil. If we're talking about popularity/recognizability, you can't remove movies/TV.

The other part of this conversation that I love is how you measure "A-list." For me, it's recognizability. There's also a case to be made that A-list is too broad. You could argue:

S+:
Spider-Man

S:

Wolverine

Hulk

Iron Man

A:

Captain America

Thor

etc.

Posted by: @enigmaticclarity

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Posted by: @grumpymatt

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I'm not sure about Fin Fang Foom either. When push comes to shove, are there 10,000 folks big enough fans to shell out $250 or whatever?

No.  Legends collectors think there would be because for some reason I've never heard explained the BAF is quite rare.

Why is that BAF in so much lower supply than other BAFs from the 2000s, does anyone know?  Was distribution limited, or did Hasbro just not make as many figures as Toy Biz did when they first took over the license?  I've always wondered, so if anyone knows why there are so few Fin Fang Fooms that aren't knockoffs please do share.

That wave was designed and sculpted by ToyBiz before the Hasbro deal closed. There were some other waves that happened on either side of that deal where production was really low. My recollection is FF Classics (with Dragon Man), Ghost Rider movie wave (Target passed entirely because of the 'Satanic' connection) and this Hulk set.

As someone mentioned, you had to get two waves of Hulk figs to build FFF, and the price was going up because Hasbro a) has more overhead, so their margins are bigger than ToyBiz' and b) Hasbro wasn't going to cut corners on manufacturing (TB was notorious for using re-grind, which didn't seem like big deal at the time, but some of those old figues are falling apart).

They saw that whole Hulk wave as a pain, but they inherited it in progress, so it got made. I think the second wave was only at TRU (maybe both waves?) and in the SDCC "suitcase" pack. Even with the higher price, my understanding is they only broke even.

There was some agita between the companies at the time because Hasbro intended to reuse a lot of TB molds, but when TB essentially closed up shop, the plant they worked with closed too and all the tooling vanished with them. Hasbro was pissed.

The first full wave that Hasbro did top down was the Hercules wave with the Annihilus BAF. Glad they took that break to re-think ML, because those early Hasbro waves were stone cold trash, aside from the BAFs. I still have a few of them in my collection as placeholders (Banshee, Hercules) but will be glad to see them go.

Posted by: @tsi

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Phoenix Force would be interesting, but again, it would depend on the scale for me. If I can't get it in my X-Men display, what would be the point?

 

Any sizeable Phoenix Force should be displayed hanging from the ceiling. It's the most reasonable space-saver Marvel HasLab there is 😉 

Could I use that Phoenix Force for a Battle Of The Planets display instead of an X-Men one?