The tenor of the entire conversation around the line would improve if they would JUST get that stuff over with. If those fans who truly only want classic really do close up their collections (I think that amount would be in the teens), the lack of constant whinging and disappointment would be an overall improvement. I don't mean that to be insulting - we all want what we want - but if it they were just done and DONE WELL - the conversation could truly move forward and gratitude could replace the whinging.
As one of the whiners clearly being described I will whole heartedly agree. Give me those long ignored classic characters I have to have to round out my displays so I can more excitedly embrace the modern interpretations and continue to expand the collection. I am not interested in capping off my collection and going away. I just want my displays fleshed out appropriately. I've had Enchantress for nearly a decade without her right hand man. I've had half a dozen Namor figures at least but not his chief rival and foe. You've given me figures of oversize figures from Armadillo to Xemnu but can't give Black Panther's chief rival M'Baku? We've got the vast majority of the Avengers line ups done, and multiple versions of Thanos, but not classic Avengers member and Thanos' brother Starfox?
Just cross them off the list Hasbro. I promise I'll keep buying the modern stuff, too.
I'll just go on record as saying that while I'm 100% in on any plan that gets us the classic characters I want, there's nothing they could ever do to actually stop fans from whining. I see far more people crying about NWH figures than classic Attuma - you didn't hear Dan dropping hints to get the bronze age fans to leave him the hell alone. It's not the era that's the problem - people are always going to advocate for what they want. And that level of passion and engagement (unless done without tact) is a necessary part of any fandom, and keeps boards like this interesting and engaging.
Attuma, Executioner, and Man-Ape are becoming my big three though. Who wants to dress up in costumes and crash the next livestream in support of them getting made?
The tenor of the entire conversation around the line would improve if they would JUST get that stuff over with. If those fans who truly only want classic really do close up their collections (I think that amount would be in the teens), the lack of constant whinging and disappointment would be an overall improvement. I don't mean that to be insulting - we all want what we want - but if it they were just done and DONE WELL - the conversation could truly move forward and gratitude could replace the whinging.
As one of the whiners clearly being described I will whole heartedly agree. Give me those long ignored classic characters I have to have to round out my displays so I can more excitedly embrace the modern interpretations and continue to expand the collection. I am not interested in capping off my collection and going away. I just want my displays fleshed out appropriately. I've had Enchantress for nearly a decade without her right hand man. I've had half a dozen Namor figures at least but not his chief rival and foe. You've given me figures of oversize figures from Armadillo to Xemnu but can't give Black Panther's chief rival M'Baku? We've got the vast majority of the Avengers line ups done, and multiple versions of Thanos, but not classic Avengers member and Thanos' brother Starfox?
Just cross them off the list Hasbro. I promise I'll keep buying the modern stuff, too.
I'll just go on record as saying that while I'm 100% in on any plan that gets us the classic characters I want, there's nothing they could ever do to actually stop fans from whining. I see far more people crying about NWH figures than classic Attuma - you didn't hear Dan dropping hints to get the bronze age fans to leave him the hell alone. It's not the era that's the problem - people are always going to advocate for what they want. And that level of passion and engagement (unless done without tact) is a necessary part of any fandom, and keeps boards like this interesting and engaging.
Attuma, Executioner, and Man-Ape are becoming my big three though. Who wants to dress up in costumes and crash the next livestream in support of them getting made?
I'm totally in!
I call Attuma, although I'm probably much better suited for other frequent wish list mainstays like Swordsman, Jack of Hearts or Mastermind in his duster. If I keep eating the way I have for the past few months, I'd make a perfect Dr. Druid or Volstagg.
This wasn't the BAF Dwight was excited about, right?
Yes, it was. He said a few months ago that it's the best BAF in four or five years, and today he said it's one of the top 10 best figures he's ever worked on in his career.
Count me in wanting Reb Brown Cap and Ferrigno Hulk! Totally would buy a Hulk/Thor 2 Pack from Returns and a Banner/Daredevil one from Trial!
As for the MCU discussion, I still enjoy the vast majority of the MCU content. Been a few misses, but I largely still quite love what I am getting. The production issues on BNW concern me for that one's quality, but hope for the best. I still 100% despise what they're doing with Doom. But that's a rant for another time
I'm probably in a minority, but I'm more excited about the Hammond Spidey than anything else revealed today. My question of the day, why are we getting another X-Factor Cyclops before anybody else on the team?
Enjoyed today's reveals. I also enjoyed their draft because it helps me with my own top 10 lists. Dwight's picks are usually the figures he thinks had the most innovative sculpt and engineering design, so I'm always interested in which ones he goes with. Odin, Punisher, Jackman Wolverine, Phoenix, She-Hulk, and Power Princess are already on my in-progress objective top 10, so I wasn't at all surprised he picked those for his draft.
I'm definitely in for the Nemesis wave. Cyclops, Marrow, and Nemesis look particularly great. I'm not a fan of gender-swapped villains, but Electro's new lightning effects look great so I"m sure I'll get her, Agent Venom, and Lizard. The rest have no appeal to me for now. Kaine's design looks interesting, but I've either forgotten who he is or never knew to begin with. I did that with Morlun when they first showed him--I had actually read that whole Straczynski run where he first appeared in the comics, but I forgot until a few months after they first showed the figure.
I'm usually an MCU apologist, but there was some stuff post Endgame that was just plain bad to me. Love and Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, Quantumania, Wakanda Forever, just didn't do it for me. Secret Invasion was also very anticlimactic. I loved most of the D+ series. Hawkeye, WandaVision, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, were all enjoyable despite the decompression for some. Marvels was ok, Shang Chi was great.
Apologist is probably a strong word. I think everything pre-Endgame/No Way Home was legitimately excellent. But there was a distinct decline. And when nearly all of the movies going into Phase 4/5 were sure bets, the duds really stand out. The tone changed too dramatically, you could see all the cracks in the facade thanks to so many factors like the pandemic, the writers' strike, the loss of Boseman, the controversy with Majors.. it was one painful hit after another. I do think MCU is back on the rise, but won't know for sure til I see Brave New World and Thunderbolts*.
I feel I'm the same way, and agree apologist is the wrong word. Defender is also too strong. I unapologetically enjoy them I guess. A lot of things could be better, hell I still think they messed up taking out the Hulk and Banner coming to an agreement scene in Infinity War. Nothing has been 'perfect', but I do feel phases 1-3 were more consistent in quality. Some are a lot stronger than others for sure, but also, like PantherCult said, I do think the phases got better and stronger as a whole, as they went. Yeah they knew they were heading toward Avengers with Phase 1, but they didn't know what that would look like, who the villain would be, etc. They also planned to do 2-3 movies for each character before the big team up, but Disney said no and they did it when they did it. They left Incredible Hulk opened ended, knowing he'd be in Avengers, but possibly as the villain. My point is, a lot of it they were just figuring out as they went, and phase 4 and 5 kinda feels like that as well, along with the added aspect of throwing a lot more characters at the wall. Phase one they had four they were focused on, while introducing a few others like Widow, War Machine, and Hawkeye. In Phase 4 it feels like they're going nuts, but a big part of the problem was all the various delays they suffered. Had they continued on after Endgame with the planned 4 or so movies per year, everyone would have gotten enough spotlight and the teamup would have come way sooner.
So, I dunno... I forget my point now.
All this shit talking about MCU Phase 5 has me committed to doing a full rewatch this December. I bet with the lowered expectations now I might enjoy them more than I did originally.
That sounds pretty reasonable to me. I've thought the same way about Love & Thunder because I remember there being some good moments. Just can't bring myself to spend time on it.
I need to start with the back half of Phase 4 first. I actually enjoyed Eternals and Shang Chi the first time. I've watched Eternals 4 times now and Shang Chi at least 3. I've caught bits of Multiverse of Madness on TBS here and there, but haven't done a full rewatch yet. I need to sit down with Love and Thunder and then watch Wakanda Forever again. Love and Thunder was definitely my least favorite of all of them - Taika needed to be reigned in a bit I think. And Wakanda Forever just felt heavy. It's unusual for me that I haven't consumed it numerous times considering the material. I do think I need to.
Right? I dunno, I just felt awful for everyone. Yeah, they (and we) are mourning the main character and actor, but the situations... it's just massive tragedy after massive tragedy. Culminating in a showdown between two cultures where I don't want either to lose.
With phase 5 Quantumania will probably still be a mess - but I think there were some fun parts, so I'll be on the look out. Guardians 3 was actually good - so I know I'll enjoy seeing that again. And the Marvels deserves another pass probably. Secret Invasion was definitely my least favorite of the Disney+ shows, but I'll try again in a binge and see if I like it better. Loki Season Two and Agatha All Along were great and thoroughly enjoyable for me. Echo was decent, but I might like it better binging it.
The second time I saw Quantumania, it moved a lot faster than I remembered. And there ARE bits that are funny but... I dunno. The main concept never did anything for me, and I still maintain it was a massive misstep to not have his supported cast involved in some way. Not just the excons but also his ex and her new husband.
Marvels... is the weird one to me because I felt like they cut too much for once. But to me, it was a fun ride. I find Kamala adorable and Monica was really well done. And as someone who hates musicals, that planet didn't bother me one bit. I'd like to try Echo again. I liked it fine but saw a lot of flaws along the way and didn't enjoy it as much as I really wanted to. But I would still like to try again. Totally agree on Loki and Agatha.
I don't know - obviously Phases 4 and 5 suffered from not being as good as Phase 3 - which would be pretty difficult to top - Ragnarok, Black Panther, Infinity War and Endgame is a run that would be hard to touch no matter what. But I don't think all of it was as dire as people make it out to be. Eternals is way better than it gets credit for in my estimation. I'm actually bummed it didn't get it's planned sequel. I also thought Shang Chi was really good. I wanted more of that too. Specifically I think Quantumania and Love and Thunder were huge steps down in quality in their own series and those two put a stink on everything else.
I also feel Captain Marvel and A&W, which came between the Avengers movies, were enjoyable as hell. Then wrapping up with Far From Home... it really was the golden age of the MCU for a few years there.
Total agreement on Eternals and Shang Chi.
The Marvels had the misfortune of being the next movie up in less MCU friendly media space, the inevitable "eww it's all females" backlash it was always going to get from a toxic corner of the fandom community, and a bit of overall shared universe exhaustion. For that movie to truly make sense viewers would have had to watch the first Captain Marvel movie, WandaVision, and Ms. Marvel at the very least - that's a lot of pre-requisites to need.
It is, but I really don't see the problem with that. Every movie that follows something else needs to bake in some backstory explanation, even if it's just a throwaway line or two to catch people up. Doesn't need to be a half hour prologue. But also, the Marvel Universe feels like one franchise where you can kinda count on most of the audience having seen the previous thing, so I've never put much stock into the 'aw, that won't work because they'll have to have seen this, that, and the other'. A lot of the audience DID see those.
Anyway - I think most of the recent MCU content gets a bad rap and isn't as bad as a lot of people like to portray. It isn't as good as the Phase 3 stuff, but much of it is easily as good as some of the Phase 1 or 2 offerings. Most of those films listed - with the exception of Quantumania and Love and Thunder - stack up against Iron Man 3 or Thor 2 for quality.
I do agree, so... next:
I don't want to derail this thread with further MCU talk, but I disagree with this to my core. It's where my opinion diverges from the MCU stans. Phase 1 and 2 had a lot of bad-but-enjoyable movies. You could compare them to bad-but-enjoyable action movies like Bad Boys 2 or Face-Off. Phases 4 and 5 are chock full of bad-and-unenjoyable movies. They feel like they're being made to carry numbers on a spreadsheet.
Thor: The Dark World is bad, but it's fun. Eternals isn't fun. Love and Thunder isn't fun. Quantumania isn't fun. They all masquerade as fun, but the jokes are flat, the stories aren't compelling, and they aren't interesting. Maybe the formula went stale, but I think it's more than that. Before, they were building to something. Now it feels to me like they're just checking boxes to get the next one out the door.
I don't know if Eternals tried to be fun so much though. I know it had a few quips, which definitely were showcased in the trailers, but when I think about Eternals I think about their intended mission and the differing opinions the team had in what it meant or should be carried out, or they should carry on at all. That kinda stuff made it very interesting to me and some of those characters were pretty incredible in that capacity. I agree, when I watched L&T, it wasn't fun. What I remember about that one, when I want to be positive, was the ending with Jane. Not the VERY end, but the other part. And I feel like L&T, on its own merit, didn't earn that ending. had the movie been stronger, that ending would have hit me as hard as a lot of other.... endings. And I don't have a problem with tone shifts. Hey, I laughed at the lighter moments in Saving Private Ryan, yes there were some, but you need that release at times. A movie can't be utter and thorough depression. I mean it can but I don't think it should be, and not something like this. Also, I will disclose... I never stopped finding the goats amusing.
I think that sums things up really well. Not only was there a decline - sometimes modest and other times steep - in quality from Phase 3; but the dilated time frame with the pandemic and then the writer's strike really damaged momentum. The loss of Boseman entirely changing the trajectory of Black Panther; and then having to ditch not just the actor, but the character and framework of the phase you were building around Kang..
Absolutely agreed. They hit a few brick walls.
As you say it was a lot of negatives stacked up at the wrong time, just as the MCU was trying to rebuild momentum after sending off arguably it's two biggest name characters and actors as well.
Additionally the pandemic fundamentally changed the audiences relationship with movie going. It's just different now. People really need a reason to go out and see a movie in the theater these days. Way harder to get butts in those seats today than it was in 2019. And with some of the story already being told on the TV screen anyway - why not just wait for the movie to hit Disney+ too?
Right, and now the 'slew of mega budget blockbusters, and NOTHING else' model is no longer sustainable. Not that it ever truly was, and I feel they were foolish to think it was. Smaller budget super hero comedies, or smaller budget super hero horror flicks... please. Yes. Not everything needs to be a big CG slugfest in the end, and I can't see any studio that needs every release to make a billion as being sustainable either.
As for the trajectory of the MCU now - the scuttlebutt about Brave New World is still a tad concerning. I hear a lot about bad audience testing and reshoots and it's hard to tell how much is real and how much is that same contingent of "anti-woke" agitators pre-panning a film where the two heroes are a black guy and a hispanic guy.
I agree about it being concerning, and that's a bummer. I enjoyed F&WS for the most part, even though it was a big casualty of pandemic issues and reshoots. It's not as severe to me as Echo as far as spotting the flaws in the finished product, but there's still some things showing there. I don't know how to predict how well it will do, BUT... that last trailer really upped my interest in it. I feel like it could well be the second best Cap movie.
The talk about Thunderbolts seems much more generally positive though, so I am hopeful that the MCU will be finding it's footing again.
Yeah, if not BNW, then at least Thunderbolts may be a fun enough ride to get people to come back again. And that's, I feel, why the successful movies did as well as they did, repeat viewings. Even some of the most die hard marvel fans weren't seeing some phase 4 and 5 movies more than once though.
Denzel Washington claiming he's in the next Black Panther movie is probably good for it though. Hopefully Coogler can get in a better head space than he was in for the second one and we can get another good one. He's a good film maker so I gotta believe he'll deliver.
I agree. And I do have faith in him. I didn't hate the second one, but... I dunno. It was kinda a no win scenario for him.
Anyway - hopefully the movies get back on a regular release cadence and the figures can get produced more regularly for all the collectors who have been starved for their movie toys.
That would be nice, but as I've said before... for me personally, I've shaved my wishlist down to the absolute 'these are who I need or the collection won't make sense', which is the FF and essential mutants. And I've gotta believe Hasbro can handle those at least.
I have to believe Hasbro will be supporting the Thunderbolts film with a wave, right?
That's the rumor at least. In this very thread! heh. I'd forgotten it's original intent.
And maybe they'll get a MCU mixed 'make up' wave out that can deliver a Cassandra Nova, a masked Wolverine, handsome pool or Lady Pool, maybe a Daredevil figure from the Born Again show, and maybe another figure from Brave New World, if warranted - Leader or Seth Volker or something? (see, I made it toy related 😉 )
I have been begging for mixed waves like that for years now. Do the Black Series method! Not just a wave for the latest release, but stuff from the TON of releases the last 16 years.
As for the MCU discussion, I still enjoy the vast majority of the MCU content. Been a few misses, but I largely still quite love what I am getting. The production issues on BNW concern me for that one's quality, but hope for the best. I still 100% despise what they're doing with Doom. But that's a rant for another time
Heh, why not now though?!
I totally get that reaction to the Doom thing. I'm trying not to have any feelings about it until I see the movie, but yeah... not where I would have gone. I'll assume they'll make it work until they prove otherwise though.
And I think... even with the MCU stuff I didn't enjoy, I still... managed to like parts of. I don't hate any of them. I still found some parts of L&T amusing and some parts moving. Same even with Quantumania. Secret Invasion really stands out to me though as something I just COULDN'T care enough to continue. Just not my bag, I guess.
I have never seen the '77 Spider-man show, but that figure is probably the most interesting thing shown off, just from a historic standpoint. And of course it makes me want a Ferrigno Hulk even more.
He seems a lot more feasible now, I'd think.
I'll just go on record as saying that while I'm 100% in on any plan that gets us the classic characters I want, there's nothing they could ever do to actually stop fans from whining.
This. People will be (somewhat) disappointed when newly revealed items don't appeal to them. It's going to happen to all of us, unless you're a completionist who has no real favorites. With how much I collect (hint...it's way too much) across different brands and lines, I don't mind if ML product is revealed and it's something I don't want. I've been picking and choosing quite a bit from the last handful of waves. I just assembled Zabu, due to BF sales. But other than that, I thankfully haven't been dying to get my hands on too many recent BAFs. And these 2 wave revealed today don't do much for me. But again, that's fine. I'm not complaining. I can put my attention toward other stuff until something more appealing pops up in ML.
I was never into the live-action Spider-Man show. But I'll gladly take a Ferringo Hulk. Hell, they can make Reb Brown Captain America. And the live-action Thor from the Hulk tv movie, and you start to form a little 70s/80s TV Avengers.
My question of the day, why are we getting another X-Factor Cyclops before anybody else on the team?
A valid question with X-Factor Angel being an option now as well.
The rest have no appeal to me for now. Kaine's design looks interesting, but I've either forgotten who he is or never knew to begin with.
Kaine was one of the first revealed clones of Peter Parker by the Jackal way back in the once upon a time of the early-mid-90's.
All this talk/speculation about a Ferrigno Hulk got me thinking, if they do make one, will he be just a standard 6" figure or will they make him be the size he was supposed to be in the show?
All this talk/speculation about a Ferrigno Hulk got me thinking, if they do make one, will he be just a standard 6" figure or will they make him be the size he was supposed to be in the show?
If I had to guess - I'd bet they'd split the difference. Ferrigno was 6' 5" tall anyway - so bigger than most standard actors - but I don't think they'd make the figure as big as they make the comic Hulk figures. He'd probably be half a head taller than a standard male figure at least. At least that's my supposition. It also probably depends on whether they dedicated new parts or found something existing they thought they could use.
I'm probably in a minority, but I'm more excited about the Hammond Spidey than anything else revealed today. My question of the day, why are we getting another X-Factor Cyclops before anybody else on the team?
Cynically? Probably because his cultural stock is currently higher than it’s been in decades. People came out of X-Men 97 loving Cyclops and saying they finally understood why he’s cool.
I can’t imagine more of X-Factor is far behind. Angel is an easy repaint of the recent classic figure and Jean would also be insanely easy to make.
Thor the Dark World is fun? Really?
"Mew mew!"
Darcy was absolutely fun. And sorely missed in subsequent projects.
The X-Factor Jean was on a previous rumor list as well. I think the assumption was she would be in a 2-pack with Cyclops - but it could be released any number of ways.
We are absolutely going to get Angel repainted in that X-Factor costume. It's too easy not to do. I would frankly be shocked if we don't eventually get him repainted in the blue and white costume (maybe with an alternate blue skinned blonde haired head packed in) and possibly even the hideous "graduation costume" with the yellow shirt and red suspenders.
I'd be shocked if we don't get Jean in the green and yellow with the cowl on the head - maybe they'll include cowled and hair flying heads... and then the red and yellow with the hair out the top. Honestly probably then down the line they'll do a 2-pack of this same Cyclops with the uncowled head and Jean in the blue and yellow X costume from the Portacio cover.
Beast is the one that will take the longest to get because it requires new tooling to do him properly. Once they do it though we'll get him in both X-Factor costumes, as well as his blue and red X-Men graduation costume and his original X-Men costume. Mimic will also follow closely - since he can share the tooling for the limbs and use Angel's wings...
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