It's funny that this thread and the DC Multiverse have morphed into almost the same conversation.
I don't know where the "trading licenses" talking point originated, but I don't buy it happening either. I think someone was just venting and it took off.
@stuartgreen But if we're sticking with hypothetical talk, your comment about hoping the license goes to Playmates is pretty bold. Wouldn't be my pick, but interesting to think about. Nah, I'd go with your second pick, Jada Toys. If they got Marvel or DC I'd probably sell all I have and start over. And that's based on just the six or so Street Fighter figures they've done in the last year and a half.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy Hasbro and McFarlane Toys trading Marvel and DC licenses any time soon.
Despite the complete lack of evidence that it definitely maybe who-really-knows WILL happen? 🤨
It would be awful if Hasbro lost the license. The character selection we have now is so deep that no other company would ever be able or willing to match it.
It's funny that this thread and the DC Multiverse have morphed into almost the same conversation.
I don't know where the "trading licenses" talking point originated, but I don't buy it happening either. I think someone was just venting and it took off.
@stuartgreen But if we're sticking with hypothetical talk, your comment about hoping the license goes to Playmates is pretty bold. Wouldn't be my pick, but interesting to think about. Nah, I'd go with your second pick, Jada Toys. If they got Marvel or DC I'd probably sell all I have and start over. And that's based on just the six or so Street Fighter figures they've done in the last year and a half.
Agreed about Playmates/Jada. Playmates has never catered to the collector market. TMNT is their bread and butter, and they only make kid friendly stuff. Sometimes that can pass for stuff collectors might want, but it's never collector quality. Jada is really doing the best mass market stuff in this scale and price range right now. I only have Chun Li from the Street Fighter line, and the basic Mega Man. But both are excellent, and the kind of quality I'd want to see in Marvel figures if Hasbro were to stop making them. Unless I'm missing something awesome that Playmates is doing. Nickelodeon's best move has been to outsource TMNT stuff to NECA.
I'm hoping that Hasbro really starts pursuing a "Hasbro Heroes" Legends-adjacent line with their own properties. G.I. Joe is doing well, and like has been mentioned before I'd love it if other lines like ROM, Micronauts, Visionairies, etc. could stand equally on the shelves.
I just don't see a world where Hasbro willingly walks away from the Disney licenses and willingly "trades" Marvel for DC. It just doesn't make sense. While Batman is obviously an enormous seller - the breadth of character familiarity for Marvel is much, much wider thanks to the movies and the ever expanding cast of characters in that space. There is no track record for how James Gunn's new DC movie verse is going to perform so it would be an enormous risk for Hasbro to bank on that.
And in the comic space - Marvel still wildly outsells DC. Of the top 20 selling books in August, 16 were Marvel titles, 3 were DC titles and 1 was an Image title. For companies making comic based figures those facts might still matter.
Unless Disney/Marvel is done with Hasbro and wants a clean break I simply don't see it.
I just don't see a world where Hasbro willingly walks away from the Disney licenses and willingly "trades" Marvel for DC.
I agree with the second part, no reason they would target DC licenses in exchange for Marvel.
But I can see them walking away from Disney if what Disney asks for the license isn't viable in Hasbro's calculations, especially compared to putting resources into their own IP. I don't think Disney has the leverage with Marvel and Star Wars (in terms of perceived value) they had 5 years ago, or whenever the current license was agreed to.
But I can see them walking away from Disney if what Disney asks for the license isn't viable in Hasbro's calculations, especially compared to putting resources into their own IP. I don't think Disney has the leverage with Marvel and Star Wars (in terms of perceived value) they had 5 years ago, or whenever the current license was agreed to.
I can agree with that. I think there's multiple factors - I think the $25 action figure market took a bit of a hit overall in the past few years and the Marvel and Star Wars properties aren't as universally acclaimed and embraced as they were in the past. But I think Hasbro uses that as leverage in negotiations.
And I don't know if Disney is in quite the power position they think. I doubt there is any other toy company with infrastructure big enough to pay Disney what Hasbro won't. Maybe Mattel could scrape a bid together in the hopes that it would buoy them. But it's hard to imagine a world where Hasbro let's Mattel outbid them, unless the bid were so large as to be ruinous. And while McFarlane is doing fine he doesn't operate on the same level as Hasbro. There isn't a scenario where he can outbid them without the risk of sinking his entire company if anything goes even a little bit wrong.
Hasbro is still a publicly traded company - and while a break up with Disney might make sense on budget balance sheet it likely spells disaster in the stock market. News that Hasbro is losing Star Wars - a brand it has cultivated and worked with for 35 years since it acquired Kenner - as well as Marvel. Those aren't headlines that make investors feel good and confident, and stock price volatility is a definite problem for a company like that.
The thing about Disney is that even if the MCU shut down tomorrow and there were no more movies or TV shows to make toys of, Spider-Man alone brings in so much money from merchandising that I doubt Hasbro would want to walk away from that.
I could sooner see Legends adopting the very cynical approach DC Multiverse has to character selection where the line becomes like 85 percent Spidey and Iron Man/Wolverine variants before they stop making Marvel toys altogether.
I can see Hasbro giving up the Marvel and Star Wars licenses if they don't see them as being profitable for them going forward due to licensing costs. I've kind of gotten the impression that they might have some desire to get out of manufacturing of figures altogether as they continue to outsource some of their owned licenses to other companies. GI Joe Classified and Transformers may be the exceptions, but they've even seemingly given up on making their own Power Rangers figures, which is a license that I believe they own outright now. I hope that this doesn't happen with Marvel Legends for a number of reasons. I can't see any other company matching the combination of price, quality and consistent output that Hasbro has been doing while keeping the same scale. One or more of those areas would almost certainly suffer under any change. I also can't see any situation where Hasbro would be likely to take on DC.
I think that it's far less likely to see a divorce between DC and McFarlane, but I'd be much more likely to welcome that with open arms. I believe that both DC and McFarlane are very happy with their arrangement, even if I'm personally not as a collector. I don't foresee any changes there any time soon.
Jada has been knocking stuff out of the park at a reasonable price point (I'm thinking mostly Street Fighter here), but their releases are a trickle. I'd never want to pay the price point for NECA for Legends. Mattel gave up or lost the DC license, so I'd have a hard time seeing them pick up the Disney stuff from Hasbro - but I'd still peg them as the most likely if a change did occur. I don't see any of the other major toy companies as realistic fits.
I don't personally expect to see any changes with either of the two major comic licenses (Marvel or DC) within the next 2 years, at least. If a change does happen, it's likely because Hasbro decided that they just wanted out due to licensing costs or from manufacturing their own figures altogether. That's my take.
Legends and Star Wars are probably two of the best selling action figure lines going right now. If they're not desirable for Hasbro then that would mean Hasbro wants out of the industry. My shot in the dark guess is that any talk of not renewing the license is mostly posturing. They probably sell well enough, but probably not as well as they did a couple of years ago. Disney probably demands the highest licensing fee around and Hasbro would probably like to see it come down. And at the price point Disney likely demands, I can't imagine there are many suitors outside of Hasbro unless McFarlane really wants to make a splash like it did with DC. Mattel is always a possibility and they did take the Disney Princess license away from Hasbro not that long ago. I have no idea how well it's been working out for them though.
Hasbro's 2023 annual report pretty much calls out that sales of the Marvel and Star Wars licenses dropped compared to 2022, due in large part to the lack of hit media tie-ins to promote the toys. So they believe that having popular Star Wars and Marvel media helps sales quite a bit, even if the product is not directly (in Marvel's case) a media tie in like MCU Legends. And the partner license revenues really vary year-over-year - in 2019 with Endgame, Far From Home and Rise of Skywalker, they did $1.2 billion in partner brand sales, in 2022 it was $1.05 billion, and last year it was $690 million. (It is a little hard to compare year-to-year as Hasbro lost the Frozen and Disney Princess licenses at the end of 2022.)
Hasbro has been letting partner licenses lapse (the Disney stuff, Sesame Street before that) and not really replacing them with anything new - it is easy to forget they own the Power Rangers, Dungeons and Dragons, etc. Other than Star Wars and Marvel, Beyblade is their next largest license, they barely even mention things like Ghostbusters or Indiana Jones.
If they're not desirable for Hasbro then that would mean Hasbro wants out of the industry.
I think this is possible, at least the licensed industry. That might be an overreaction to the chaos in media starting with the pandemic and continuing with the various strikes - and the impact that had on Hasbro trying to get product out to match the delays of the films/media. Or if they feel Disney won't compromise on fees. I agree that Star Wars in particular has been with Kenner/Hasbro forever but it is not what it was.
My shot in the dark guess is that any talk of not renewing the license is mostly posturing. They probably sell well enough, but probably not as well as they did a couple of years ago.
I think this is the question for Hasbro, do they want to deal with licensed products still or use that to acquire their own IP like they have done with Power Rangers, Peppa Pig etc., to supplement GI Joe and Transformers and their gaming side? Do they want to continue to compete for consumer dollars and shelf space with their own brands vs their licensed product?
As a business case it is an interesting call.
While there's no concrete evidence, nor will there be until something happens, there is supposedly a buzz and/or concern it's not looking good with the Marvel license. I remember this conversation 5 years ago or so and that anniversary line was so good some of us wondered if it was the swan song. Now in 2024 the 85th anniversary line is amazing. I tend to think things stay the course just like back then.
However, something to consider is that new CEO Chris Cox is really cutting expenses and considering selling off the toy division from what I heard. They laid off John Warden who was a beloved designer/manager for 20 years. Honestly I wouldn't have gotten back into Transformers w/o him; hell I donated to his GoFundMe. And that was a brand that actually MADE them money. Disney makes the movies/shows they want but they cost Hasbro dearly for a while. It seems very reasonable Cox won't justify committing more money. He wants to license their IPs and just focus on Digital like Wizards of the Coast. This guy isn't exactly beloved and I can't imagine a world without Hasbro-made Transformers, but former designer Aaron Archer suggested it might happen. They're allegedly moving to Boston, which according to Archer, wouldn't likely be accomodating artists and engineers.
So I will enjoy the hell out of the heyday of Transformers, it's been amazing the last 6 years especially for me. Legends just got cool again and I will enjoy 2025. I guarantee it lives on, but maybe not with them. Maybe the license gets divided further. I don't know who else could afford the entirety of it and truthfully Hasbro will be a tough act to follow looking at character selection. I miss the detail and paint of Toy Biz, but some Hasbro pieces look damn good and there's so many. Best case scenarios to me are they continue with comics only and DTC grows with more Odin level, Dragon Man figures and whatever this Ultimate line becomes. OR Disney buys up a small toy company and lets Jesse Falcon run it again without worrying over licensing fees and see what happens.
They're allegedly moving to Boston, which according to Archer, wouldn't likely be accommodating artists and engineers.
Yes, there reports about leaving Newport RI for Boston that popped up recently, ironically around the 1027 event (1027 is the official address for the headquarters, at least for now).
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