Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Looking for a dose of entertainment? For movies, TV, and music - the Multiplex is your spot.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:55 am

Supposedly he wanted to do two films but the rights situation with the first movie meant the profit was split between, what, three studios? But all the money made from sequels only went to one studio. I'm sorry I don't remember which it was, Warner Brothers? But that's why they pushed for two sequels rather than one. And the mood, as reflected on Jackson's face, in BTS stuff I've seen seemed pretty bleak. It didn't seem like the same sort of experience for anyone involved as LOTR was.
User avatar
DerRabbi
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1772
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:08 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:02 am

I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he wanted 2 films and the studio pushed for the 3rd. I won’t give him the benefit of the doubt for his stylistic action choices growing too much "kid throwing his action figures in the air" style. It was on display before the Hobbit. It was creeping in in LOTR near the end. ROTK suffers from him trying to mash the more tension button a few times when it’s not needed. That said he still pretty masterfully executes many moments in that film.
fac
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 pm

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 4:16 am

Well, the studios may have wanted three films, but Jackson could have submitted three 2-hr films (cut 30-40 minutes from each), and not a total of 8 hrs (including credits). Not like the studio makes more money if the film is longer, if anything they and theaters like shorter so more showings a day.
User avatar
DerRabbi
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1772
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:08 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:50 am

Totally true. Guy can't edit himself at all.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 16254
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:37 pm

Ru_1977 wrote: The bonus features were why I kept buying new versions of the Extended cuts, and some of that stuff is nearly as rewatchable to me as the films themselves,
Totally agree. And when you really watch all that stuff, you really see how little involvement PJ even needed to have for large chunks of the project. There were so many people involved that were utterly dedicated to making that trilogy the best it could possibly be.

fac wrote: That's mainly because I think Jackson loves developing action sequences more than anything
That would be weird because he's SO bad at them. The action sequences in LotR are actually not very good. We love them because they're dramatic and because we care about what happens. Not because they're John Wick level planned out and executed. I won't do it here because it would take -pages-, but it's actually very easy to sit down with LotR and pick apart every action scene. To the point where there's barely a moment in any scene that something kind of stupid isn't happening.

And if PJ doesn't like the 'violence action' scenes and only loves the 'goofy' action scenes like the barrel bullshit - he's not really good at that either because those are some of the worst, dumbest, most drawn-out nonsense in any fantasy movie ever.


Ru_1977 wrote: Supposedly he wanted to do two films but the rights situation with the first movie meant the profit was split between, what, three studios? But all the money made from sequels only went to one studio. I'm sorry I don't remember which it was, Warner Brothers? But that's why they pushed for two sequels rather than one. And the mood, as reflected on Jackson's face, in BTS stuff I've seen seemed pretty bleak. It didn't seem like the same sort of experience for anyone involved as LOTR was.

Maybe it's a controversial opinion but the real problem with The Hobbit -wasn't- that it was too long. It was just trash. It's about filming the -wrong- stuff, spending too much time on the wrong things, and just generally making a bad series of films. I forgot which channel, but one of the YouTube channels I watch (or one I have watched?) did a break-down really going into heavy detail on how The Hobbit could have been an amazing trilogy and that there actually -is- enough material (because of how much Tolkien largely glosses over or just the difference in mediums) for three films.
Jackson just either wasn't talented enough, or had stopped giving a shit (this is a common accusation about him after he got so wealthy from LotR) to sit down and really figure out how to make The Hobbit into a film series properly.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:48 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Ru_1977 wrote: The bonus features were why I kept buying new versions of the Extended cuts, and some of that stuff is nearly as rewatchable to me as the films themselves,
Totally agree. And when you really watch all that stuff, you really see how little involvement PJ even needed to have for large chunks of the project. There were so many people involved that were utterly dedicated to making that trilogy the best it could possibly be.
Right. They just needed that PJ stamp to continue along. People worked through holidays and missed early years of their children's lives.
KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:37 pm
Maybe it's a controversial opinion but the real problem with The Hobbit -wasn't- that it was too long. It was just trash. It's about filming the -wrong- stuff, spending too much time on the wrong things, and just generally making a bad series of films. I forgot which channel, but one of the YouTube channels I watch (or one I have watched?) did a break-down really going into heavy detail on how The Hobbit could have been an amazing trilogy and that there actually -is- enough material (because of how much Tolkien largely glosses over or just the difference in mediums) for three films.
Jackson just either wasn't talented enough, or had stopped giving a shit (this is a common accusation about him after he got so wealthy from LotR) to sit down and really figure out how to make The Hobbit into a film series properly.
I can get behind that. I have no problem with the length exactly, but I guess I feel like if Jackson hadn't inflated it, he would have been able to tighten everything up more. That may be a commentary on what I think his strengths and weaknesses are, so maybe I'm in agreement without realizing it. But I would LOVE to see that youtube stuff you're talking about if you happen upon it again.

I went looking at fan edits again and saw one guy took all three movies and edited it into a two hour forty minute version, cutting out all Dol Guldur related stuff, all love triangle stuff, apparently removing Tauriel entirely and Legolas only appears as a cameo, etc etc, and apparently it was great. But he also took all the Gandalf/Dol Guldur stuff and made a feature length movie from that footage as well. Which I find really fascinating. It sounds almost like some of the stuff Del Toro was talking about when they were still breaking down the plot of what these movies would be.

I would fall into the "he didn't give a shit" camp, but not because of money and so on, I think he really just didn't have the passion for it anymore. And I think he knew it since he was so resistant to making the movies himself.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 16254
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:25 pm

Ru_1977 wrote: I can get behind that. I have no problem with the length exactly, but I guess I feel like if Jackson hadn't inflated it, he would have been able to tighten everything up more.
I think the important take away is that PJ inflated it with the wrong stuff. So yeah, if he was told 'make it ONE movie' (for example), it would have been leaner. But given what he chose to include in 3 movies, there's actually no assurance that he would have chosen the -right- things to include in two films either. It comes down to PJ doing what he thought was fun or what he wanted to do for whatever reason he had, rather than doing what was best for the story and the audience.
I'm just... not convinced.. that ANY length, shorter or longer, would have served. Because I'm not convinced PJ had any shits to give about this project and was doing it solely for the cash (or, if you're less jaded than me, because he cares about the fans and felt like he needed to be the one to do it for them even though he didn't have any passion for it).

Ru_1977 wrote: I went looking at fan edits again and saw one guy took all three movies and edited it into a two hour forty minute version, cutting out all Dol Guldur related stuff, all love triangle stuff, apparently removing Tauriel entirely and Legolas only appears as a cameo, etc etc, and apparently it was great.
I have that one, and it's quite good. It's called the There and Back Again Edit. Ultimately.. it's still got the PJisms in there, but drastically reduced. Unfortunately, there's still problems because some of the issue with The Hobbit isn't what's been needlessly shoved in, but what was left out. And no fan edit can really change that. And, I mean... that's the real problem. People say it's too long, but you can still find stuff that's -missing- from the story. Why? Because it's not too long. It's just bloated with PJ's own nonsense because he seems to think he knows how to Middle-earth better than Tolkien did (me being jaded again).
Ru_1977 wrote: I would fall into the "he didn't give a shit" camp, but not because of money and so on, I think he really just didn't have the passion for it anymore.
There's a case to be made that PJ stopped having passion for -anything- after LotR. He made a ton of money and built this amazing reputation (deserved or otherwise). You'd think someone that just loves making films would have cranked out projects on the back of that kind of success. But he just like.. stewed around in his vault of cash and made like.. 3 things after LotR, not counting The Hobbit, and not counting 'Producer' credits, since that mostly means 'he didn't do anything except slap his name on it for the benefit of the studio/a buddy.'
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:08 pm

Yeah, you sound like a more level-headed version of me talking about Lucas 20 years ago. And I totally see your points. I don't think I've seen anything of his since King Kong, which I mostly actually enjoyed. I also had an almost morbid sense of humor about a lot of the PJisms throughout that. I haven't tried anything else since.

I remember in high school, friends would come over frequently to watch "the movie with the karate priest" since I'd turned them on to Dead Alive. I was into Feebles and Bad Taste as well, enjoying them for what they were. I even liked Forgotten Silver and Heavenly Creatures yet was still surprised he was the one behind LOTR. I still kinda am really. I have similar feelings about Raimi too.
User avatar
KnightDamien
Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 16254
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:17 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:44 pm

Ru_1977 wrote: Yeah, you sound like a more level-headed version of me talking about Lucas 20 years ago
:lol: Not to derail but... George Lucas is pretty terrible. He gets way too much credit for, as with PJ, what was a huge team effort, and the prequel trilogy really showed off that George's weaknesses in film-making can be summed up as 'almost everything.'

Ru_1977 wrote:I don't think I've seen anything of his since King Kong
Have a laugh and go look at his directing credits since LotR. You've missed -almost nothing- and I'm willing to take that as not proof, but very solid evidence that he stopped giving a shit about making movies once he made a bunch of money and didn't really need to work anymore.
fac
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sat May 30, 2020 10:22 pm

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:15 pm

PJ's documentary work is great - They Shall Not Grow Old, Get Back - that seems to be his filmmaking focus at the moment. Maybe for him going back to another big budget adventure film is boring because he has already done it. That's different than assuming he lost motivation for making movies, I think he is using his freedom to do what interests him. Some creative people find revisiting the same sort of ground not that engaging, while others find a niche and stick to that. Neither is bad, its how folks are different.

All films are a huge team effort, the director sets the tone and provides the feedback on every aspect of the production - hiring good people and getting them and their departments to perform well and in sync which each other is a major part of good directing. I think evidence that a director's team is great and brings alot to the table is indicative of a director (or any leader/manager) who recognizes talent, listens to it, and brings out the best in people.
User avatar
Ru_1977
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5545
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:23 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:20 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:44 pm
Ru_1977 wrote: Yeah, you sound like a more level-headed version of me talking about Lucas 20 years ago
:lol: Not to derail but... George Lucas is pretty terrible. He gets way too much credit for, as with PJ, what was a huge team effort, and the prequel trilogy really showed off that George's weaknesses in film-making can be summed up as 'almost everything.'

Ru_1977 wrote:I don't think I've seen anything of his since King Kong
Have a laugh and go look at his directing credits since LotR. You've missed -almost nothing- and I'm willing to take that as not proof, but very solid evidence that he stopped giving a shit about making movies once he made a bunch of money and didn't really need to work anymore.
Nope, you've now derailed. Right, there was a period where I was really hyping people like Marcia Lucas, Gary Kurtz, McQuarrie, Kasdan, Kershner, etc. Not to mention the cast. And I did feel even with ROTJ, you could see the cracks already.

This has nothing to do with Boba Fett. Next to nothing to do with Boba Fett.

But yeah, I know PJ did... Ugh... That one with Tucci that I never even gave a shot. Is that about it?

I remembered I'm holding the internet in my hand and looked, yeah not much I was into at all. Although! I was utterly obsessed with Get Back all last month and actually want him to devote the rest of his career curating Beatles footage. He also did that West Memphis 3 documentary which I didn't think was all that great...
fac wrote:

All films are a huge team effort, the director sets the tone and provides the feedback on every aspect of the production - hiring good people and getting them and their departments to perform well and in sync which each other is a major part of good directing. I think evidence that a director's team is great and brings alot to the table is indicative of a director (or any leader/manager) who recognizes talent, listens to it, and brings out the best in people.
True. I think Carpenter said a good part of his job was simply getting the right talent for the roles and positions.
maverick10126
Have You Heard About Todd's DC Line?
Contact:
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 5277
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:18 pm

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:27 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 9:44 pm
Ru_1977 wrote: Yeah, you sound like a more level-headed version of me talking about Lucas 20 years ago
:lol: Not to derail but... George Lucas is pretty terrible. He gets way too much credit for, as with PJ, what was a huge team effort, and the prequel trilogy really showed off that George's weaknesses in film-making can be summed up as 'almost everything.'

Ru_1977 wrote:I don't think I've seen anything of his since King Kong
Have a laugh and go look at his directing credits since LotR. You've missed -almost nothing- and I'm willing to take that as not proof, but very solid evidence that he stopped giving a shit about making movies once he made a bunch of money and didn't really need to work anymore.
100% on George. Coppola wasn't convinced George couldn't write, forced him to write and his take away was George cannot write.

ANH would not have turned out the way it did had George not been bouncing ideas off all of his friends (who were all great filmmakers) at the time. The dialogue would have been garbage had the Huyck's not given the entire screenplay an uncredited pass. The original edit was garbage until George's Academy Award Winning wife saved it.

ESB would not have been the movie it was had Kershner been a "yes man" director and if him and Gary Kurtz hadn't kicked him out of the meetings. There's a reason Gary Kurtz was not brought back as Producer for ROTJ. There's also a reason Marquand was hired to direct ROTJ.

But GL loves re-writing history and downplaying everyone else's contributions and elevating his own to the lightning in the bottle that was Star Wars. He especially seems to like letting the myth that he had the whole story planned out (original trilogy and prequels) grow without a firm correction that no, he was just making it up as he went along.

As far as PJ goes, I know he was overseeing it all as the director...but they were shooting so much stuff simultaneously. They had a bunch of different units working and he was checking on them remotely for a lot of the shoot. I mean we have to give him credit for being the one in charge but it was so much a joint effort. It being the huge success, I could totally see that going to someone's head. You forget the thousands of people who helped you pull it off. I also can see how such a massive shoot would burn someone out. They definitely wouldn't want to go through something that stressful again. Hiring a bunch of yes men to make future productions go smoother would definitely make sense.
Benedict
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1224
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:39 am

Jackson spent well over a year doing upto 21 hour work days just shooting the films, and several more in post production and pick up shoots. I’m not surprised he was so burnt out and barely directed after. I don’t hold that against him. He and his crew/cast made the most awarded film series in history.
After that, I guess you just do whatever you feel like.
User avatar
DerRabbi
Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Posts: 1772
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:08 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:29 am

It would be one thing too if Jackson was off making smaller budget films but he for the most part isn't. The one he did make "Lovely Bones" was particularly bad. To make matters worse, he basically stole the rights from the film when a better small / medium budget filmmaker than he (Lynne Ramsey) had been working on the project for years effectively wasting years of her life to make a worse film. The investors get whiff of his interest and she was out the door like that. Really is a mark on his rep as a defendant of independent film. Her work may not be to a lot of people's taste on this board (there is very little "genreness" to any of it), but only Jackson's "Lovely Bones" is really in the quality level of most of her smaller budget films like "Morvern Callar" or "You were Never Really here".
User avatar
Prophet924
Thwipp!
TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Location: Close enough to hear TMS roar.
Posts: 10415
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:19 am

Re: Lord of the Rings - The Rings of Power (Amazon Series)

Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:12 am

George Lucas is to Star Wars as Stan Lee was to Marvel. Both worked very hard and in collaboration or in opposition of other very talented story tellers.

So is the Amazon story expanding on the prologue of Fellowship of the Ring? It’s telling the story of the rings Sauron used to build his power from syphoning off men/elves/dwarves?

Thwipp!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Return to “The Multiplex”