Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

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Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:14 am

Leia was the little surprise this series delivered. It delivered in spades when it comes to Leia.

To me the writing was well awkward at times, really awkward.

But I think the writers took the final part of the Princess’ message as a passion plea to introduce this childhood adventure. She’s 10. She remembers Obi Wan fondly from this. But her life and mission to build a resistance to the Empire did make that seem a long time ago.

I didn’t like Reva but I understand her arc. It is okay.

Duel was good.
Spoiler! :
Qui-Gon showing up at the end once Obi Wan final made peace with his failure and part in Anakin’s turning. It was funny he showed up in the desert as Obi Wan was heading to his Wizard hermit life. Learning how to become more powerful than Vader can possibly imagine. It was funny though to me. I do think it’s funny Qui Gon said I was always there…uhm so? But again the force ghost concept is they show up when story needs them. I still enjoy Force Ghost Yoda asking Luke, read them have you? When he’s flipping out about the Jedi texts burning. Already has what she needs. Force ghost Yoda is the best. Anyway. Force Ghost Qui-Gon cracked me up.
I liked the series. It’s not about raising or lowering my standards. I really enjoyed BoBF. To me I’ve watched Clone Wars, Rebels, Bad Batch, Solo, Rogue One, Mandalorian, Fett, and this program more than prequels and sequels. My desire to watch and enjoy these shows is just my desire to enjoy Star Wars content.

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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:45 am

Magnuz wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:40 pm
As for reva, again it was too ambiguous, obi wan just said ok bye and let her go, she has no cleat path and while you say she turned from the darkside, she was pretty deep in it before so I don't think you get to come back from that cause you choose not to kill one person after killing who knows how many purely on a quest for vengeance
Spoiler! :
hasn't Vader, a known men, women and children killer (of all races), been redeemed and became a force ghost because he didn't kill his son and threw the old guy in a well? What's the difference between him and Reva? I say that someone who's had a super screwed and PTSD filled life since early childhood is more redeemable than a dude who chose the dark path as an adult.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:23 pm

Spoiler! :
I'm fine that Obi-Wan logically knows Vader should be killed, but emotionally can't do it - not because at that moment he still believes in any good in him after Vader disabuses him of that belief directly, but because he just will never be able to kill Vader/Anakin - and certainly not once he hears Anakin's true voice and looks into his eye again. (In my head cannon, if Obi-Wan hadn't cracked open the helmet, he could have killed Vader and he entered the fight prepared to do so logically - but there was too much Anakin for him to make that leap emotionally) Plus the line is Obi-Wan once thought as you did - that could refer to any time when Obi-Wan, on Mustafar or this fight, still called him Anakin and said he felt sorry for what was happening for Anakin to turn to the Dark Side, while Anakin sees that as the right choice and his choice. So I didn't need it spoken out loud in this series that Obi-Wan sense good in him still - but I also get why the way they did it didn't work for some.

I was thinking how Obi-Wan / Vader is now like Frodo / Gollum - if Obi-Wan kills Vader here, then in the final conflict who defeats the Emperor? He'd get another apprentice and Vader, from the Emperor's point of view, has already served his purpose by leading the Jedi purge. But Vader living is what ultimately ends the Emperor* - its how Frodo not killing Gollum is what ultimately ends the ring.

One other note, I need to go back and watch it more closely - in RotJ when Vader is unmasked at the end, he has what looks like a scar/wound on the top of his head (on the right when looking at him) - I think he got that wound in the fight we just saw when the helmet is cracked. He did not get that on Mustafar.

(*Note this ignores the ST which makes most of what happens at the end of RotJ meaningless)
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:29 pm

Shinigami_PL wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:45 am
Magnuz wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:40 pm
As for reva, again it was too ambiguous, obi wan just said ok bye and let her go, she has no cleat path and while you say she turned from the darkside, she was pretty deep in it before so I don't think you get to come back from that cause you choose not to kill one person after killing who knows how many purely on a quest for vengeance
Spoiler! :
hasn't Vader, a known men, women and children killer (of all races), been redeemed and became a force ghost because he didn't kill his son and threw the old guy in a well? What's the difference between him and Reva? I say that someone who's had a super screwed and PTSD filled life since early childhood is more redeemable than a dude who chose the dark path as an adult.
Within the context of the OT vader was slightly easier to redeem, in the broad spectrum yes he did as bad and worse than reva but he also did more than just not kill his son, he sacrificed himself to kill the emperor. Also Lucas' often hated changes with Hayden in the ot emphasized that anakin was redeemed, not vader implying two different people, vader did terrible things including killing anakin, and when anakin rose back up and killed the emperor he killed vader and sacrificed himself and freed himself back to the light side of the force.

Reva was pushed to the darkside by revenge and spend 10 years becoming an inquisitor and showed she was violent bloodthirsty and ruthless, well into the dark side for someone who wanted to kill vader. Then with that failure turned to trying to kill a helpless child and that finally stopped her, but she did nothing else she just stopped. My issue is she was left with an ambiguous journey. Vader had a turn and anakin came back that was a completion and yes you can argue the weight of his actions for good not outweighing the bad but he did something.

All reva got to do was give up and sit there and rhe show just left her. After so much focus was on her and how divisive a character she was that was short changed and emphasized the poor planning and writing this show suffered from. She deserved more, like her or hate her she got no real ending.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:50 pm

Magnuz wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:29 pm
Also Lucas' often hated changes with Hayden in the ot emphasized that anakin was redeemed, not vader implying two different people, vader did terrible things including killing anakin, and when anakin rose back up and killed the emperor he killed vader and sacrificed himself and freed himself back to the light
He doesn't have two separate minds or souls in him. This is more of a figure of speech, Vader just considers the Anakin part of him dead, that's it. Arguing them actually being two different people is just weird.
Spoiler! :
And I'm not saying that Reva should be entirely redeemed. Just that if Anakin can be by (most likely) doing far worse things than she ever did, then it should be possible for the 3rd Sister as well.
I also don't see the point of killing her right now, unless she was killed in ep 5 by Vader, then I'd be down with that. Her actually getting conflicted and possibly growing a consience could lead to some great stories down the road.

Also also, keeping in mind all the fake out deaths in this show, even if she'd been stabbed with a lighsaber (again), she'd probably show up alive in season 2.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 1:36 pm

Had some time to reflect on the series, and I hate saying this, because I loves me some Star Wars, but this series was an abject failure. Cool Vader scenes, good acting, and an epic final battle. But the overall story had so many bad, w.t.f. storyline moments, it killed the series. Things that made no logical sense. I really hope season 2 happens, but I also hope they take the valid criticisms to heart and work out a much better story for it.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:46 pm

Even if you take Reva off the table, since criticizing her is an argument for itself, the inquisitors are a bunch of clowns. Outside the Grand Inquisitor, they’re caricatures of 80’s cartoon villains; they may as well have appropriated Dr. Claw’s line, shaking their fist and screaming, “I’ll get you next time Reva/Kenobi!” The twists with the Grand Inquisitor didn’t have enough meat to be impactful.

Idk…I’m on the side of the fence that didn’t think Reva had a story that mattered. And I don’t know what to do with that. Could they have done the core story without them? Probably. What probably would have been better was a separate series or movie about the inquisitors hunting down Jedi and establishing them as a group and individuals, and lead that directly into Kenobi. On one hand, you have too much spent in Kenobi establishing them, but on the other, only Reva gets to be more than a cardboard cutout, and it’s debatable if she gets handled much differently. If I thought they had a plan (since the sequels show they don’t think they need one), I’d wonder if she could be Jar Jar or Finn, sidelined despite potential for future development. She certainly has potential, but even with as much time as she got, I think she needed more (or at least the fifth episode exposition dump earlier) to make her a character the audience could root for either to commit to the dark side or start a redemption arc.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:33 pm

I'm in the exact opposite place as TFitz, where this is my favorite Star Wars stuff since RotS. This is like a missing episode in the main saga to me - there have been fun side trips in the SW universe (Mando series, Ahsoka stuff), but I feel like the core of this series elevates both RotS and ANH in terms of impact, and also serves as nice set-up from some of the themes between Vader and Luke in the OT.

Not saying it is perfect (and I can pick apart a story with the best of them at times), and maybe some of it is because I view the ST as the true abject failure of the SW live-action, but this to me is how you use the legacy characters to expand their story without totally kneecapping what came before or after.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:52 pm

fac wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:33 pm
I'm in the exact opposite place as TFitz, where this is my favorite Star Wars stuff since RotS.
And that's totally cool. Truly. I just cringed at too many scenes from Leia evading the kidnappers for so long in the woods to Vader and the Inquisitors letting Reva live to Obi letting Vader live. Hell, Obi being so woefully weak in his first fight with Vader. I'm still going to re-watch it all (likely this weekend). Got a new TV and need to see it on a bigger (and much better) screen.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:57 pm

TFitz wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:52 pm
fac wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:33 pm
I'm in the exact opposite place as TFitz, where this is my favorite Star Wars stuff since RotS.
And that's totally cool. Truly.
Same to you - not suggesting that it is wrong to have disliked this or felt it was a misfire. I am sort of intrigued how wide the range of reactions are however - and not in a divisive way about a specific plot point or moment, but just general favorable vs unfavorable opinions.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:10 pm

Magnuz wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 12:29 pm
Reva was pushed to the darkside by revenge and spend 10 years becoming an inquisitor and showed she was violent bloodthirsty and ruthless
This isn't me doing a 'gotcha', but genuinely asking because I can't recall right now: Was it ever made clear how long Reva was an inquisitor? And was Reva ever shown actually killing someone? I know she cut a hand off, but there are several instances where she is shown actively NOT killing. She threatens a lot but I honestly can't remember her killing a single person. Maybe when she and the stormtroopers are attacking the enclave on Jabiim?

And with how long she has been an inquisitor... it feels to me more like she is a recent recruit. If they'd taken her immediately after the temple assault, there'd be no question who she was and she'd know that. But Vader's line about how of course he recognized her, along with Granny mentioning how they found her in the gutter, makes me believe she was surviving on her own for some length of time before she was found, likely tortured, and recruited. But again, if they made it explicit that she was immediately recruited as an inquisitor, I missed it.

Either way, I sincerely feel it's reaching to claim, for any reason, that Anakin is more redeemable than Reva. I also think it's unfair, but like I mentioned earlier, I always equate the dark side with addictions and I'm a closet optimist when it comes to hoping some of the addicts I know find redemption. But I also believe doing competitions for size or depth of hardship/trauma/misdeeds is a dead end when someone is genuinely attempting to atone. And it seems like Kenobi feels the same way. For her, giving up on her pursuit of vengeance was as difficult a hurdle as Vader turning on his master of the last two decades. I had a co-worker lamenting to me the other day how difficult it is being a parent of one, then she confessed she felt dumb since she knows I have three but I told her it's a waste of time thinking that way. We all have our own frame of reference.
My issue is she was left with an ambiguous journey. Vader had a turn and anakin came back that was a completion and yes you can argue the weight of his actions for good not outweighing the bad but he did something.
And her story isn't complete either. I get the desire for a full story but sometimes they set a character up for a longer journey. Not just for you, but for a lot of viewers, one of the issues for this show was an impatience to let a story simply unfold.
fac wrote: this is my favorite Star Wars stuff since RotS. This is like a missing episode in the main saga to me - there have been fun side trips in the SW universe (Mando series, Ahsoka stuff), but I feel like the core of this series elevates both RotS and ANH in terms of impact, and also serves as nice set-up from some of the themes between Vader and Luke in the OT.

Not saying it is perfect (and I can pick apart a story with the best of them at times), and maybe some of it is because I view the ST as the true abject failure of the SW live-action, but this to me is how you use the legacy characters to expand their story without totally kneecapping what came before or after.
This is one of those posts where I have nothing to add beyond "exactly for me as well"*. I think, for me, it was Rogue One until yesterday. That finale was really just wonderful and added something I honestly felt was missing from ROTS. That secret aspect we had no idea about, even aside from the emotional value which I felt was high. But I remember after 2005, part of me was really let down there wasn't ANOTHER episode coming. Clone Wars was okay for what it was, but it was backtracking and I realize now this show is exactly what I was longing for.

And I completely agree with what you said about the ST. There are a couple of fun moments, and I can kinda admire the attempt with Last Jedi to rewrite what 'a star wars film' can be (my shallow examples are always it was the first saga movie to use slow motion and flashbacks, but obviously a lot of plot and character elements didn't feel like 'star wars', which was purposeful... for better or worse), but ultimately I pretty much pretend they didn't happen and will be hesitant to engage in any projects set in that era. But hey, if they do a show or movie that magically elevates the trilogy, I'll embrace it.

*obviously untrue
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:35 pm

Reva can't be more than 20years old, seeing as how she was still pre-pubescent for Order 66 and it's only been ten years since. Most of people's issues with her characterization should evaporate once they accept she's still just a punk teenager.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:40 pm

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:35 pm
Reva can't be more than 20years old, seeing as how she was still pre-pubescent for Order 66 and it's only been ten years since. Most of people's issues with her characterization should evaporate once they accept she's still just a punk teenager.
I would have thought that as well. When someone criticized her early on for coming across as someone who is simply ACTING tough, I was thinking...yeah, that's exactly what he comes across as. She's trying to fit in with a bunch of bullies. Turns out it was a character window.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:45 pm

Maybe it’s her age then? Moses Ingram is 28, which I think is accurate to how she looks. I don’t think she has the youthful appearance of many actors playing high school aged characters into their thirties. (Not that she doesn’t look young, just not that young).

Could have been opportunities for the either her to chide young characters or the other inquisitors to make comments on her age being why she’s inexperienced, etc.
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Re: Obi-Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:39 pm

fac wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:03 pm
Bip wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:12 pm
It left it open for a season 2 but I'm not sure what other story they could tell with him at this point because everything was tied up.
I agree, I liked where they left it.

Edited to add: You could get me interested in an Obi-Wan and Ahsoka story...
The only thing that springs to my mind is something with Darth Maul. But that would be another story of him facing a Sith lord opponent from his past he can't kill b/c the opponent needs to survive for another show. Unless the show adapted their Rebels conflict for the last episode of a live action show or something.

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