Masters of the Universe: Revelation

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KnightDamien
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 pm

Aleks wrote: Didn't people have a problem with Abby being unlikable character? That you HAVE TO play for another 10 hours and then beat the character from the first game with your own hands? That she is "too big" for post-apocalyptic measures? Because in a "realistic game it was stupid to have such an unrealistic shape"? So it's not just "reee muscle woman threatens men"? People have other problems with this game as well...but that's another story.
Without delving into that whole thing, I do think the rationale people use is deceptive. And I also think Abby and Teela's 'controversy' mirror each other well. It isn't that people had problems with these characters foundationally.
It's that people saw a buffed up woman that didn't act like a sex object and immediately (IMMEDIATELY) hated it.
From that hate, they needed to reverse engineer reasons for why they hate it so much. Because even most hardcore sexists won't say things like 'I'm angry that I don't want to [email protected]#$ this female video game/cartoon character.' They'll say things about the character being 'too manly.' Or having a somehow unattractive haircut. Or being 'unrealistically buff' (in a world where the original main character, in the case of Joel, was clearly in excellent physical shape, or in a world like He-Man where -every- male character is a world champion-level bodybuilder). Sometimes they use coded language like 'butch.' Sometimes they use far less coded language like 'she looks like a lesbian.' But if you know how to untangle it, you can usually see where their problem really is.

Sometimes the reasons sound good. Sometimes they're more obviously transparent. But they, in my opinion, always seem to -start- with hating the character on sight and then having to work from there to reason it out.
Ru_1977 wrote: I mean, if we're really gonna get into what's wrong with apocalyptic movies/stories/shows, what's with all the times people happen upon a car and it starts right up, even if it's been sitting there for years? I'm fine accepting characters may know how to jumpstart, and maybe the engine is tip top, but doesn't gasoline only have a few months of shelf life? Not like it ever gets in the way of me enjoying anything but still something I think about.
If you want to go into 'what's wrong with post-apoc stuff' - the answer is almost always 'everything.' Why are they riding horses, which are very difficult to maintain and feed when they're living in a world with billions of discarded bicycles? How have all the world's nuclear power plants not melted down and literally killed off everyone that survived whatever the original apocalypse event was? Why are people only malnourished when it suits the storyline, but are otherwise in virtually peak physical health, capable of running, fighting, swimming, etc. Why are they not suffering from massive vitamin deficiencies as their bodies try to adjust to what would absolutely be a huge change in diet? Why do they create these ludicrous, goofball-looking melee weapons when we have a rather full understanding of 'how do people make weapons without modern technology' in our actual real world?
None of it makes sense. Which is why it's extra obvious when people only focus on the relative 'realistic-ness' of a girl having muscles in such a setting. You know, in that case, exactly what their problem actually is.

Ru_1977 wrote: I had a sneak attack where I was watching a youtube video about rumors for upcoming star wars projects that took a sudden turn into "AND THIS IS WHY THEY'RE FIRING KATHY KENNEDY AND PUTTING STAR WARS BACK ON TRACK" etc. Yeesh!
Haha. Yeah, I've had a few of those, too. I think that's how they drag people in to their weird world of sexist/racist conspiracies. Sound totally normal for a bit and then hit 'em with the crazy.
Ru_1977 wrote: I also STILL don't get the issue with Captain Marvel. But whatever, at least it's not like the Joker where nuts were shooting up theaters and such.
She didn't smile enough. And didn't wear her 'original costume' (i.e. didn't show enough skin). And otherwise was not presented as a character that needs men to help her. That really offends a certain group of people. If Captain Marvel was a male character and virtually nothing else in the film was changed, people would have shit themselves with how awesome he was. Make it a girl and all of a sudden it's a huge problem for reasons they can never quite articulate in a way that isn't absolutely ridiculous.
Rambo. John Wick. Punisher. Male characters can be as tough and stoic as the writer wants and it's never a problem for that same group of fans.

Maximoff wrote: It’s always “social justice warriors ruining everything”. Can’t have a strong female lead without “pushing an agenda”. What agenda is that? That women exist? That not everything has to be about a white straight male? Boy if Adam isn’t gay in this, he is definitely metro as all get out.

As soon as I saw teela I had Last of Us 2 “controversy” flashbacks. Why isn’t this woman character thin and pretty and weak like I like my women. A woman with muscle somehow threatens masculinity.
Bingo.

And I don't think they're going with a gay Adam for this. I don't think Mattel is even brave enough for that. But I do think he's ultra metro. Which is totally fitting. He's a snazzy dresser that is super nice to everyone and is so confident in who he is as a person that he even...
Spoiler! :
chose to be his regular, normal self in heaven.
MARVEL KNIGHT 2099 wrote: Which is basically the "controversy" in a nutshell. Most people who say they don't like it probably don't even know why, they just don't like it because others say it's not good cause feminism-sjw-agenda-oscar-niner-roger-wilco.
Also bingo.

Peak example is K from earlier. Never saw the show. Doesn't care about MOTU. But somehow has a very strong notion of exactly what the show is all about and why certain elements of it are 'bad.' Wonder where those notions came from for someone that doesn't know the property AND hasn't seen the show. Gee. Hard to suss that one out.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:17 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 pm
Aleks wrote: Didn't people have a problem with Abby being unlikable character? That you HAVE TO play for another 10 hours and then beat the character from the first game with your own hands? That she is "too big" for post-apocalyptic measures? Because in a "realistic game it was stupid to have such an unrealistic shape"? So it's not just "reee muscle woman threatens men"? People have other problems with this game as well...but that's another story.
I also think Abby and Teela's 'controversy' mirror each other well. It isn't that people had problems with these characters foundationally. It's that people saw a buffed up woman that didn't act like a sex object and immediately (IMMEDIATELY) hated it.
It may work for Teela, but not for Abby though. Even if there was some guy named Karl instead of Abby, people would hate him the same because of what happened at the beginning of the game. Only then people began to look for other things to complain about, which is nothing new.
Spoiler! :
This is also one of my problems with this game. After what and HOW her group did it, I had no desire to play for this character or "get to know her cool friends better". All I wanted for their story to end as soon as possible. Сan you blame other people for the same? I can't. I was surprised that game doesn't give you the option to simply skip this story arc or at least make a few different choices. And It also didn't help that you had collect all the supplies and gear from scratch, after you've already been doing this for several hours. Again, People mostly hate her for WHAT she did in the beginning, not because she's "big strong fit woman that didn't act like a sex object".

Sure, there will be some people who put this thing first, but really who [email protected]#$ cares about them?
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:56 pm

...what?

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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:03 am

Who the hell is Abby? :?:
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:15 am

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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:21 pm

Piffy wrote:...what?
He's talking about Abby, not Teela.
yojoebro82 wrote:Who the hell is Abby? :?:
Abby is the secondary protagonist from the video game The Last of Us 2. Despite there being other complaints surrounding the character, she got TONS of the same exact sort of hate Teela is currently getting for taking over the story (although Abby actually -did- become the main character) and being a girl that has muscles and that video game incels didn't want to have sex with.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:46 pm

I'm sure some cosplay models will do the "sexy" version of all these characters to soothe the incels' savage hearts.

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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:32 pm

Mister Skeezler wrote: I'm sure some cosplay models will do the "sexy" version of all these characters to soothe the incels' savage hearts.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:20 pm

Wow, there's a lot to dig through. Not sure I have the energy to read through it all. I'll just stick with the topic at hand and give my take on it.

I liked the show. I love stories set in this narrative framing. The whole how the world exists after the familiar peak glory days are long gone. It's similar to DKR or The Dark Knight Rises. Unforgiven. The last arc of the 2012 TMNT Cartoon. Those glimpses into the future are always fun. How do people live their lives after the adventure is over? Can they move on? Do they move on in a satisfying way or is part of them forever changed by the journey.

The whole controversy of He-Man not being the "main character" in the show didn't bother me. He was featured heavily in the beginning, we witnessed his final battle and his presence is clearly hanging over the rest of the show. The flashbacks keep him present in the show and the fact that he was clearly the glue that kept all these characters together. Plus the goal is to clearly bring him back...even though the characters think they are just setting out to restore magic.

The cliffhanger is just that, a cliffhanger. I'm surprised people freaking out about it aren't smarter. If the intention was for this to be a permanent change in the lore then it wouldn't have happened as a cliffhanger.

The female characters being buff. Was that an actual complaint/problem people had? That's crazy....people will complain about anything I guess. The show is set in a really weird fantasy world. Medieval combined with sci-fi. I mean the whole thing just doesn't make sense....but female characters being drawn with muscles is the hill to die on?

I've touched on Captain Marvel quite a bit in the past. So I'll keep it brief this time. The character lacks the normal Marvel charisma....which is kind of their bread and butter. Brie Larson didn't do herself any favors on the press circuit. She dove right in and doubled down on the backlash which did nothing but make things worse...and make her extremely unlikable as a person. The movie was just okay...mostly because her character boring and partially because the previous movie Avengers Infinity War.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:51 pm

I finally got around to watching this and I enjoyed it. I do miss a lot of the action sequences from the 2002 reboot though. A lot of the jokes didn't land for me and hit like the comedy in Whedon's version of the Justice League. This actually made me like Orko and I'm also glad this showed how badass Man at Arms is. Lena Heady's voice is.....I just like everything about her. All in all I really liked it and am pissed that they ended on a cliffhanger like that to make me wait for the second part. Those are my thoughts.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:13 pm

maverick10126 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:20 pm
I've touched on Captain Marvel quite a bit in the past. So I'll keep it brief this time. The character lacks the normal Marvel charisma....which is kind of their bread and butter. Brie Larson didn't do herself any favors on the press circuit. She dove right in and doubled down on the backlash which did nothing but make things worse...and make her extremely unlikable as a person. The movie was just okay...mostly because her character boring and partially because the previous movie Avengers Infinity War.
I've still not come to understand what she said that was so wrong. I get you've touched on this already but would you explain what she said that was so bad?

As far as charisma, I don't get that either. Danvers was moderately stoic, something action heroes get away with pretty often. She also was a woman in a male dominated arena, so the choice of having her be less emotive made complete sense when women are often forced to hold back on emoting much in such situations or risk being labeled shrill or hysterical. She was cool under pressure and capable even before the last act.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:50 pm

One of the issues fans had going into Captain Marvel is when it was implied...then later stated that she was the strongest character in the MCU. This is all well and fine except a lot of people were worried she was going to be an overly simplistic Deus Ex Machina in the Marvel Universe to swoop in and save the day in Endgame. The payoff isn't great when the answer to all your problems comes in at the last movie when there's a 20 movie build up. So there was this heavy worry amongst fans that this new character would be the face of the franchise moving forward and an undeserved win coming on the back of her.....and then what happens. Awful awful interview with Chris Hemsworth. Truly cringe worthy and really fed into the rumor that the actors weren't happy with this direction. The whole Captain Marvel could pick up Thor's hammer. I did all my own stunts why didn't you do all your own stunts thing. Hemsworth was riding high as one of the most popular MCU characters at the time and rather than a grateful passing of the torch interview it just came across as aggressive and confrontational. Sort of a "these older characters are in my way" moment. Tons of other interviews didn't help when the other actors clearly looked irritated that she was there and she just dominated the talking time. It's a minor thing...but it just planted things in fans minds that she was unlikable because her co-starts clearly didn't like her.

Stoic is just another word for lacking personality. And completely disagree that women need to be less emotive in order to not be considered shrill or hysterical. Ellen Ripley isn't just "stoic." Ellen Ripley is a fully formed character will a full breadth of emotions. She has fears, ptsd, a softer side, shows bravery, mental toughness. Sigourney Weaver was nominated for an Academy Award for her role! Sarah Connor, the Bride, Sidney Prescott etc. They aren't shrill, can still have emotions and still come across as tough.

You pointed out something....cool under pressure. That just means things come easy to her and the stakes feel low. Capable even before the last act points to the lack of her actual growth or arc. I mean we start the movie off by her using her powers to beat up Jude Law. He makes some point about how she can't rely on her powers to win....then at the end...we come full circle. She just uses her powers to beat him up again. How is that growth? What lesson did she learn? How has she as a character any different than she was at the beginning. In the beginning she was a high powered character...and at the end she's just the same high power character. There was no flaw to overcome. Where's the Marty McFly chicken moment of BTTF3? Or Han Solo coming back to save Luke? Or Ellen Ripley acknowledging Bishop as an equal.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:54 pm

I think Larson as Captain Marvel is pretty great.

While I see what you are saying about her being a high-powered character throughout the movie, that doesn't mean she didn't evolve as a character. Her growth comes from learning that the life she thought she had been living was really a lie, that life is not so black and white, that (while being immensely powerful physically) the necessary control comes from her own determination and resiliency. Her growth was maturing both mentally and emotionally.
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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:03 pm

Sometimes I wonder if all the Chicken Littles doing all the apocalyptic hand-wringing viewed different copies of these things than I did. Like the interview where Brie Larson went around being a He-Woman Man-Hater, or the Masters of the Universe show that was somehow not about He-Man even though you can't go five seconds during an episode without someone mentioning He-Man.

*shrug*

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Re: Masters of the Universe: Revelation

Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:24 pm

I don't hate Captain Marvel....I just found it to be an okay movie with a boring main character. Just saying where some of the dislike came from. I do however stand by her being a boring character. But enough about Captain Marvel. It's just not a movie worth getting upset over.

Back to the topic at hand. I liked this show quite a bit. When I compare this show to TF: War for Cyberton….this show is actually easy to get through. I'm also glad that part 2 isn't a long ways off...from what it sounds like.

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