Justice League Snyder Cut

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yojoebro82
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:19 am

I'm two hours in (just finished Part 3.......how many parts are there again?) and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. Unfortunately being a father of two little girls, staying up late to watch a 4 hour movie means it's going to be a rough morning the next day, so I need to break this one up into chunks. Looking forward to finishing it.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:24 am

I didn't care for "Man of Steel" at all, and I was underwhelmed by "Batman v Superman". So, I didn't have high expectations for the Snyder Cut of the Justice League going in, but I must say was extremely pleasantly surprised.

I thought that this versions improved on every aspect of the theatrical release from the characters (good guys and bad), to the action scenes, the overall unfolding of the plot, editing, and etc. And I am one of those people who actually enjoyed the theatrical release (I've seen it around 5 times), but the Snyder version is far superior, IMO.

It's a shame that this wasn't the movie we got to see the first time around. If so it may have performed much better and spawned a sequel or two. It's a bummer that they'll most likely never produce any other JL movies in this universe because it looked like it was shaping up to be an interesting ride.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:51 pm

I think it is a little unfair to compare this to the released version - I liked this better, but would this version have ever made it to theaters at 4 hrs long? Probably not. Part of job of a writer and director is to construct a story that actually makes sense in a reasonable amount of time - something would have to have been cut, or shortened, or revised to get this to 3 hrs. That version might have been as disjointed and abrupt as the Whedon version was at times.

I think ultimately the decision to go into the Death of Superman story in the second film was too early, and then to follow-up with this Darkseid but not-Darkseid story and immediately bringing Clark back was too soon. Especially as he was barely needed - Cyborg and Flash were the key actors in the victory, Superman was just more muscle in some ways. I can imagine a version of the film that drops Superman entirely, ends the same way but with Aquaman and Wonder Woman doing more of the heavy lifting, only for Diana to realize who Darkseid is (have the mural scene and flashback as an epilogue) and how they will need more firepower to possibly defeat him, and Bruce to have his nightmares not of Superman going bad but what will happen with him not around.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:30 pm

Superman going bad, Lois death which Batman let happen, Earth taken by Darksied...all things that didn’t happen in this film. They are irrelevant and not even remotely developed in any way. So I agree with the previous poster. Alive Superman was unnecessary. His death was essential to the story. But I liked this Superman only slightly more than Snyder’s previous attempts. So yay, progress.

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:16 pm

I just finished it and man I don't know where to start. First of all I'm incredibly happy that the music by Zimmer and Junkie XL is back because as good as Danny Elfman is, his score was out of place in the theatrical cut. He also butchered Wonder Woman's theme by making it orchestral. It was also crazy how much of this was actually in the theatrical cut and how much was cut out. Whedon and Johns did no one any favors with their rewrites but there were a few scenes i did like and would have liked to have seen, namely their version of Superman and Cyborg separating the motherboxes and Wonder Woman's interaction with the public after she stopped a robbery at the end.
fac wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:59 pm
TFitz wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:24 pm
First Wonder Woman fight still pisses me off...
Spoiler! :
I was really hoping this was going to be fixed. She's told there are 4 bombs, but she never goes after the others, nor do we here about them again. The last baddie; she can block 30 automatic shots while moving across the floor saving kids, no problem. But when he has to reload by ejecting the magazine, grabbing a new one, slap it in, and get it up to fire again, all she can do is slam her bracelets together shooting a ton of debris out on the street potentially killing people outside? What the [email protected]#$?
Spoiler! :
Agreed - the initial section where she is throwing the bad guys around you can justify given the time crunch so she can't hold back - even the guy whose head hits the wall - but the last guy is pure vengeance plus the possible collateral damage outside (or if the building collapses, those inside). Not in her character really.

I get the feeling that this was an instance where the filmmakers had a great visual they wanted to use - in this case to establish the power of the bracelets coming together for later - and had to find a reason for it.
Spoiler! :
I'm not really sure where all the hate for Wonder Woman is coming from lately. The 84 movie had its problems but was overall an okay movie and the terrorist didn't say that there were four bombs. He said four city blocks. I took that as meaning that the bomb would take out four city blocks not there being four bombs. Though I do agree with you on the last guy.
There were a few problems I had though.
Spoiler! :
There was no explanation as to why Superman took the black suit. It was just "Hey guys, I'm going to wear the black suit." Some explanation other than he wore it in the comics would have been great. I also would have preferred to have seen the blue and red at the end when did the classic s symbol reveal.

I loved Darkseid but kind of think they made him look like a little bitch during his first appearance on Earth. He had his moments in battle but I was expecting him to just go full beastmode on everyone before he was defeated. Granted, it took three gods to do it but still.

I love Snyder's vision of the DCU but I wish he would stick to a few current traditional aspects to characters like for instance Batman's arc in BvS would've been way better and more effective if he wasn't just going around killing criminals and would have meant more when he looked at the spear before he was about to kill Superman realizing that he was becoming like the very monster he despises. I also don't like the idea that the Joker killed Dick instead of Jason. It gives them more of a history knowing that Jason is dead and Barbra was crippled by him.

While I like this version of Barry way better then the theatrical version, I don't like the appearance of the way he was running. He looked weird. No one runs like that....not on purpose anyway. This one is just a nitpick but it bugs me none the less.

More nitpicks: The cgi to all the cgi heavy characters still looked incredibly cgi and what the hell was with Amber Heard's accent? That caught me completely off guard, especially after watching the theatrical cut and Aquaman.
Things I liked.
Spoiler! :
Everything else. I liked that everyone and everything was more fleshed out. I liked that Barry was more experienced than he was in the theatrical cut but still pretty new to being a superhero. I guess the perfect comparison would be like how Spiderman was portrayed in Civil War.

Cyborg's arc was better this time around and Ray Fisher did a amazing job. As much as I like Jovian Wade's portrayl in Doom Patrol, I think Ray stole the show...no pun intended. I hope the WB bs doesn't kill his career.

Whedon's comedy and subplots were gone as was the stupid cgi mouth Cavill had. Whedon's writing can be amazing but it can also be incredibly bad, especially the comedy. He's hit and miss with it. The comedic scenes in Buffy, Angel, and Firefly can be hilarious but when he gets to the big screen 8/10 times they fall flat and aren't really that funny. I also think his writing works on the tv shows because he has a team working with him and not just him. The Batman/Wonderman fight in the theatrical cut didn't really have a point other than to name drop Steve Trevor.

The staredown between the League and Darkseid. I don't know why I liked that scene so much but it was just epic to me.

Jared Leto's performance made up for the version we got of the Joker in Suicide Squad. Those five minutes we got were a version of the Joker I wish was in Suicide Squad. It still wasn't better than or on par with Nicholson, Ledger, or Hamill but it was still pretty good. We also finally got an interaction between Batman and Joker that we were robbed from in Suicide Squad.

MM is always awesome. I just wish there was more of him in it than just the Martha Kent scene and the talk with Batman in the end but it's understandable since Lennix's scenes were recently shot.
All in all while I enjoy this movie and wish this was the canon cut to the DCEU it would cause a few problems if it was. As it is, it would retcon aspects of Suicide Squad and Aquaman. This version does fit in very well with both Wonder Woman movies though and perfectly sets up a Batman movie that we're never going to get. Hopefully with enough support maybe the Flash movie can retcon aspects of it into continuity and we get sequels. I also hope Cavill and Affleck stay on as well.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:48 pm

I thought this was way better than the theatrical release, but that it still had its flaws. Some corny dialogue/scenes (the iceland women singing and sniffing aquaman's sweater for example), introduction of characters that really weren't necessary (and raise questions about previous movies) and way, way too much slo-mo. While it doesn't matter much for this initial run on HBO Max, feels like a good editor could pare out (at least) 45 minutes to an hour to come up with a version that would be something that people would enjoy seeing in theaters (or at least a version that lends itself to a rewatch more than the 4-hour cut). Kinda wonder if that will happen since it seems like it might make WB some $$$.

The only things that Whedon added that i missed in this version were the initial cell phone footage with Supes, the Aquaman confession while sitting on the lasso, and Supes acting like Supes in the final battle (although in the Whedon version, Supes basically makes the rest of the league look irrelevant, which was disappointing despite enjoying seeing a cheerful Superman). For the most part, i didn't think the quips that Whedon added really landed for the most part so i didn't miss them in this version (although i did like "that's the opposite of what the saying is")

Stuff I liked about this version:
Spoiler! :
- the flashback scene with the defenders of Earth was much better in this version (and is probably one of the main bits leading to LOTR comparisons, although i don't personally agree with those comparisons)

- the rest of the league all had pretty big roles to play in the final battle - especially Cyborg and Flash, but even Aquaman and Wonder Woman got to help finish off Steppenwolf.. .it wasn't just the Superman show like in the Whedon version

- more time with Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg was definitely appreciated even if there were still some eyeroll inducing moments mixed in with the additional scenes with them

- more humor than i expected for a snyder movie- Flash and Alfred still got some funny lines in, and iirc so did a few of the other characters even if it wasn't as quippy as an mcu movie
Ultimately i don't really blame Whedon for the failure of the theatrical cut so much as DC execs - the competing demands to both keep the runtime under 2 hours AND still introduce Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg for the first time (not to mention supporting characters) really doomed this movie imo.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:12 pm

Yeah, I still hate it. There's just not enough good in it to outweigh the terrible, and I dunno that I saw Snyder add in anything of substance that was better than Whedon. It's just more of the same that I already didn't like. Zach's music was just *oppressive* and I hated the choral wailing whenever Diana did something. Why does Barry need a minimum wage job when he's already bought a suit of Space Shuttle armor? Why doesn't Barry deserve an origin for his powers? Why doesn't he do dick-all to help the civilians up the stairs? And slo-moing *everyone's* fight scenes completely saps the impact of his powers.

With Martian Manhunter established in this world Superman was completely un-necessary in every way and it probably would have been a better movie to have left him dead with MM providing the punches *and* the precognition that Bruce inexplicably has.

Snyder simply isn't good at adapting the properties he says he loves.

I'm just glad this miserable shitshow is done with so we can get on with the remainder of F&WS and get excited for (hopefully good) Invincible.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:01 am

This was Leagues better than the theatrical version. LeaguesyouseewhatIdid better. The tone was more consistent since the theatrical kept bouncing back and forth. It felt way less rushed. Which is obvious in a movie that is four hours long compared to the other one, but it just shows that nobody knew what the hell they were doing last time around with the chopping and the reshoots. It's still very Snyderian, so the faux-epic touches (the caterwauling soundtrack flourishes were a bit much) and the ssssssslllllllooooooowwww moooooooootioooooooonn are still omnipresent.

The most surprising part was (this probably isn't a spoiler since it was in the trailers but I'll do it anyway for reasons)
Spoiler! :
The Joker. I hated the Suicide Squad Joker, with his snorting and his slurred speech and...just everything about him. He was the worst part of that movie when he should have been the best. But the Knightmare version used here was better in practically every way, and makes me wish this performance had been the style used in the Suicide Squad. Because that version was ridiculous. It made me think Leto might actually be capable of a good Joker (or Jokerish, since there's never been a true cinematic Joker that felt completely fully Jokery), and that is not something I would have thought before.
Overall I was entertained and at no point did I feel like the movie was interminable, so it did a good enough job doing what it intended.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:06 am

I have one hour left. Getting through this movie is turning into a three night even ......which is sad. Not on Snyder's part. I appreciate his self indulgence on this. If this is his last shot at these characters, take whatever time you want. It's sad that me and the wife can't finish something this long without falling asleep.

Anyway, I found myself kind of surprised by some of the humor and witty remarks. In the theatrical cut, I assumed any and all of them were Whedon. I was surprised to see that some of them in the Snyder cut, such as Flash's comment to Jim Gordon about the team suddenly disappearing. Speaking of Flash, why on earth was that great Flash intro at the pet shop scraped for the theatrical cut? Why not use that instead of that boring scene with him talking to his dad in prison? I dare say that could have been cut from BOTH versions to save time. Surely they can cover that ground in his solo film.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:17 am

Ibentmyman-thing wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:01 am
It's still very Snyderian,
Yes, and that's what I like about it. And that's funny because I do not agree with all of his decisions on Man of Steel and BvS, but I appreciate his very unique take on this team.

I also agree with what you said about Joker. I roll my eyes at all the memes you see bashing Letto's take on the character. How do you know he wouldn't have been great in the roll when his part (for Suicide Squad) was such a waste?
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:10 am

Drab, ugly, too much in love with slo-mo visuals...but a slight improvement overall? Well...at least until the epilogue. Lex Luthor and Joker had to remind us of their existence and mar a happy ending. What’s more? If Snyder is so in love with murder-machine Superman, why didn’t he just adapt Injustice all along? (I assume he just couldn’t figure out where to plug the Leonard Cohen songs in)
yojoebro82 wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:17 am
.
I also agree with what you said about Joker. I roll my eyes at all the memes you see bashing Letto's take on the character. How do you know he wouldn't have been great in the roll when his part (for Suicide Squad) was such a waste?
I thought he did a fine job sounding like Matt Frewer as the Joker.
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Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:48 am

If I had seen this version first In whatever means Snyder would have done, two films or a really long one, it would have only meant more nightmare world and Darkseid. He had his butt handed to him by Zeus and Ares. Darkseid had more character development in that wall art than the live action scenes. So neither the nightmare world where Superman is a Darkseid thug or Darkseid himself proved to be that interesting. That after credit cut scene of the leftover Justice League while meme worthy was more cringe inducing. It was just dark. No intrigue. What was Batman’s plan? Granted more films would have revealed out how Batman failed to keep Lois alive and Darkseid turns Superman into him Murder puppet. Payoff to teases in BvS. But maybe those aren’t worth exploring.

This Snyderverse just delivers a promise of more of the same. I’d rather they make films not dependent on a single person’s timeline. They can share the universe but not the Snyder vision. While this was better, it doesn’t make it good as a whole. I suppose the League came together in a more coherent manner. The leaguers who didn’t get an origin or film were better handled. Cyborg is more important than an alive Superman to this story.

I still do not understand why Cyborg revealing his origin of being brought back to life and having some intimate connection to the mother box becomes we must resurrect Superman. It seemed tacked on to undo the loss of the character in previous movie. I kind of understand how the death of Superman shows a weaker planet Earth. But don’t get how his death howl awakens the dormant/encased mother boxes. How wouldn’t the death’s of Zeus and the deities that kicked Darkseid’s ass not do the same? Superman had nothing to do with Darkseid’s loss. Obviously Snyder cared nothing about what the film makers in Wonder Woman were doing. Earth’s gods were more bad ass than those of Apocalypse in Snyder’s world.

Seems to me Cyborg’s revelation gave them an in to hack and thwart the Mother boxes...Superman wasn’t needed. Their plan was a jumpstart charge by Flash on Cyborg to get into the Unity and split it up. Superman punched Steppenwolf around but it seemed the Aquaman and Wonder Woman were doing the same. I suppose Superman is needed if Apocalypse invaded again. More muscle to beat back the space general and his army. It also bothered me was the Kryptonian ship warning against using mother box to revive Superman. I guess that was just more seed planting for a Snyderverse nightmare world which isn’t going to happen. Why include it?

But he did it. He finished his film. It’s obvious it was his to make not Joss Whedon. Honoring his family Snyder did it. So I can celebrate that. I just don’t dig his vision.

#Restinpeacesnyderverse

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:49 pm

And except for in-the-know fans that watch the CWverse show who is gonna know the woman Barry saved is Iris? Due to the race-change not even old-school comics fans would make that assumption, and random Normals would just see him being weirdly intimate with a woman he's caressing against her knowledge or choice as he brushes her hair aside.

And why make the point of his suit being made of Space Shuttle tiles and then have *no* heat issues or effects at any point in the movie? Why the need to run through the window when going through the door wouldn't have added any significant time to the journey to the intersection? Did Barry show a single second of thought to where the car would end up? And why in God's Name can they spend millions on all this CGI but not color Barry Allen's hair red? They're just so goddamned lazy with these movies.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:06 pm

And why is Barry's lightning blue?
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:22 pm

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:49 pm
And except for in-the-know fans that watch the CWverse show who is gonna know the woman Barry saved is Iris? Due to the race-change not even old-school comics fans would make that assumption, and random Normals would just see him being weirdly intimate with a woman he's caressing against her knowledge or choice as he brushes her hair aside.

And why make the point of his suit being made of Space Shuttle tiles and then have *no* heat issues or effects at any point in the movie? Why the need to run through the window when going through the door wouldn't have added any significant time to the journey to the intersection? Did Barry show a single second of thought to where the car would end up? And why in God's Name can they spend millions on all this CGI but not color Barry Allen's hair red? They're just so goddamned lazy with these movies.
Soooo......

It's not important to establish that its Iris yet, it's intended to be a first meeting and maybe a love at first sight moment for barry, who obviously has some social akwardness at this stage. The idea is that zack cast her as iris with the expectation that they would continue their story in a solo film which they are now doing. His caressing showcases his obvious sudden infatuation with her and his social akwardness in the situation but also if you pay attention to the scene you'll see he's taking extreme care moving her around because zack made a point to explain in interviews that his speed is such that he can't easily manipulate or move things without causing damage hence why he pushes through the glass rather than try to open a door. The moment was frozen due to his speed and he just went for it.

The armor is there to protect him from friction but also to stay intact during his speed, if you see his shoes rip off when he starts to run conveying that at some speeds he just obliterates his clothing. This has been done before, it was the main reasoning for him getting a costume in both tv shows.

Also, Barry in the comics is blonde, wally is a red head, and it doesn't matter because they cast an actor with dark hair, just like the cw show, and the old john wesley shipp show, its a choice in actor not hair color. It's like asking why jason mamoa didn't have a short styled blonde hair do in aquaman, its not important to the character.

His lightning being blue is also just a choice snyder clearly made, because like his hair, it really doesn't matter what color it is.

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