Justice League Snyder Cut

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:42 pm

I don’t like Snyder’s vision but have no beef with the hash tag campaign as long as those pushing it don’t become inappropriately aggressive. I’m all for letting the studio know, hey we like this. It’s not really giving into the mob. It’s listening to the customer for Warner Brothers. WB spent the funds. They released it in a manner to which most who wanted to see it in a safe manner could. That’s a great story to celebrate. So just let the hash tags be. It’s not a bad thing.

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:55 pm

Here's an article on Snyders DC that I found pretty interesting

https://www.escapistmagazine.com/v2/zac ... k-history/

Helped me appreciate the films in a way I hadn't considered. Still flawed films, but the fact he covers DC's "dark" age is undeniable.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:02 am

I watched this (in two parts) over the weekend and ... I don't really get how anyone can say it's a good movie. It might have been a pretty good trilogy, because it felt like the story it was telling still needed to be stretched out a bit more, but also that 4 hours is WAY too [email protected]#$ long to sit through Snyder's migraine-inducing visual style. Like.. am I the only one ALWAYS squinting when watching this movie? Stretched out in pieces it would have been more interesting and it would have flowed better. Trying to cram ALL that into one movie? Pretty shit.

Don't get me wrong - it explains things way better and gives major events more time to breathe. But if you -need- 4 hours for that, then you have too much material for a single movie.. don't ya'?

And as I said.. it's still the same joyless, ugly visual style. Not that I expected differently. I didn't. But 'expecting it' doesn't make it less shitty. JL is still one of the ugliest superhero movies ever made. The entire last what... 15 or 20 minutes of the film is a total waste of time. Oooh.. edgy; a dark alt-reality dream sequence and a sudden character drop that won't ever matter and didn't belong in this story anyway. Seriously. You could have saved everything that -mattered- in this movie to make it the 'Snyder Cut' and STILL cut out almost a half hour because that entire final sequence added nothing and served no purpose at all. Why was ANY of that even in this movie? Especially a movie that's got a 4-hour run time. There's 'director's cut' and then there's 'totally unable to get your head out of your own ass.'

A lot of stuff that I won't bother getting into was still nonsense, even with longer scenes and more set-up all over the place.

It just doesn't work. JL was a bad movie on virtually every level. JLSC is also a bad movie. Just slightly less so. But at least JL had the decency to only waste 2 hours of my life instead of 4. Of course, the latter can say I knew what I was getting into and that 4 wasted hours is really my own fault for thinking it was worth seeing if they could save the monumental turd that was Justice League. Spoiler: Nope.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:56 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:02 am
Don't get me wrong - it explains things way better and gives major events more time to breathe. But if you -need- 4 hours for that, then you have too much material for a single movie.. don't ya'?

The entire last what... 15 or 20 minutes of the film is a total waste of time.
Yeah, four hours is too long.......under normal circumstances. But there are a couple of factors that play in here: One being that Snyder (baring any more miracle hashtag movements) is not coming back, and he had tons of untold story just sitting there. They weren't going to be breaking this down into smaller parts, so you get one big, long film. Another factor is covid and the fact that this movie was going to be streaming. In your own house, who really cares how long it goes? I broke this down into four separate viewings and it worked out fine. But I wouldn't have wanted to sit in a theater for this long.

The last 20 minutes were complete self indulgence, but again, it goes back to the fact that Snyder is done after this. He's teasing where he was going with all of it. Will it ever pay off for the fans? Probably not. Would it have been better as a stand alone movie had they just cut to the end after the JL beat back Darkseid and stood triumphantly atop that nuke plant? Probably. But again, if you know you're not coming back, and you have a bit more story, what have you got to loose? If nothing else it explains Batman's nightmares throughout the last two movies: Lois dies, Superman goes crazy, the world's gone to $#!t. Got it. Now the only question is do the heroes win out in the end. (probably). Best case scenario for Snyder is he peaks fan interest and motivates another hashtag movement.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:45 pm

I watched this again yesterday and enjoyed it more than the first time. I don't mind the viewing time but because of it that means it's not something I'm going to watch regularly. It's the same with the LOTR and Hobbit movies. They're my favorite films but I don't watch them a lot because the extended editions are almost 4 hrs each....and that's six movies.

The more I watch this the more I wish they would give most of the plot points in the movie another chance for the cinematic universe:
-A proper trilogy for Superman. I like this take on Superman and would love to see the rest of this version's universe established. Didn't care for Doomsday or Eisenberg's Riddler performance in BvS but a few more movies with the character who is more sure of himself and after MoS and BvS finally knows his role and place in the world would be great.

-I just want to see more Affleck as Batman and an adaption of Under the Red Hood would be perfect especially after seeing him and Joker finally interacting in the epilogue. Seeing this version of Batman and Deathstroke throw down would be great too.

-Wonder Woman and Aquaman don't really need much considering they and Shazam are currently carrying the DCEU now. So I guess they could stay on their current course.

-Other than the versions on Doom Patrol, Smallville, and the old Superfriends cartoon, I never cared about Cyborg and was confused when he showed up as part of the League in the new 52. However Fisher's performance and the character's story in the movie made him more interesting to me. I wouldn't mind seeing more of this Cyborg but I know that's not going to happen unless WB and Fisher's relationship drastically changes in the future.

-I do wish they would drop the whole nightmare part after Steppenwolf's defeat but I do want to see more of the New Gods and Darkseid's conquest for the anti-life equation. For the small amount of time Darkseid had in this it was used very well.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:25 pm

The nightmare scene at the end should have been a mid or post credits scene.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:22 pm

Too bad they dumped plans for a New Gods movie. Darkseid could stand to be fleshed out more.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:40 pm

I think one of my biggest problems with this movie is...
Spoiler! :
Martian Manhunter.....I mean we all saw this coming as far as who he was in previous movies, but until it was actually a thing it was still just speculation. Now with him being confirmed as General Swanwick, it's just confirming a massive plot hole. So during MoS we are supposed to believe he was fine with Zod reshaping the planet? I mean...he lives there too. And then in Batman v Superman, he wasn't compelled like WW to step up and fight Doomsday? And what was his plan here, just sit this one out and let Steppenwolf fulfill Darkseid's plans? But don't worry, he'll be around for the next threat... I know I'm not covering anything new here and Superman should have been able to spot that he wasn't human right away but it just feels like poor treatment of the character to depict him as someone who's content to not step up and do anything at all when his power is comparable to Superman's.
That's just a problem I'm going to have a hard time reconciling. I enjoyed the rest of the movie (but I think part of that is relative enjoyment compared to the Whedon version).
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:58 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with the above spoiler.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:31 am

My favorite quote from the original JL release was cut:
Spoiler! :
Pet Semetary
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:14 am

maverick10126 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:40 pm
I think one of my biggest problems with this movie is...
Spoiler! :
Martian Manhunter.....I mean we all saw this coming as far as who he was in previous movies, but until it was actually a thing it was still just speculation. Now with him being confirmed as General Swanwick, it's just confirming a massive plot hole. So during MoS we are supposed to believe he was fine with Zod reshaping the planet? I mean...he lives there too. And then in Batman v Superman, he wasn't compelled like WW to step up and fight Doomsday? And what was his plan here, just sit this one out and let Steppenwolf fulfill Darkseid's plans? But don't worry, he'll be around for the next threat... I know I'm not covering anything new here and Superman should have been able to spot that he wasn't human right away but it just feels like poor treatment of the character to depict him as someone who's content to not step up and do anything at all when his power is comparable to Superman's.
That's just a problem I'm going to have a hard time reconciling. I enjoyed the rest of the movie (but I think part of that is relative enjoyment compared to the Whedon version).
This isn't really new.
Spoiler! :
He pretty much had the same introduction in the arrowverse. The only difference being in the identity he chose to portray and the fact that Superman actually knew him as the Martian Manhunter. I also wouldn't say he was content in not stepping up seeing as how in this he became a General in the army and later the Secretary of Defense. Also in the arrowverse he took on the identity of Hank Henshaw who was the head of the DEO.
I'm not saying it's right only that it's been done before.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:14 am

yojoebro82 wrote: Yeah, four hours is too long.......under normal circumstances. But there are a couple of factors that play in here: One being that Snyder (baring any more miracle hashtag movements) is not coming back, and he had tons of untold story just sitting there. They weren't going to be breaking this down into smaller parts, so you get one big, long film. Another factor is covid and the fact that this movie was going to be streaming. In your own house, who really cares how long it goes? I broke this down into four separate viewings and it worked out fine. But I wouldn't have wanted to sit in a theater for this long.
A key element when I mentioned it being too long is more about pacing and story. It's too long to be one movie not because of the length, but because they're trying to cram so much into one story that ultimately, in my opinion, doesn't really work as one continuous thing. It's like if they chopped Black Panther, Thor 3, Civil War, Infinity War and End Game down to one 4 hour movie. The problem wouldn't be the 4 hour run-time. The problem would be you're packing in too much for one small story, and too little for one big story.

So you've got this super long movie, and it certainly expands and fixes some elements of the shittier version. But it's still infested with problems and ultimately doesn't do anything besides make a bad movie longer. It's too long for one movie because the -story- doesn't work for one really long movie, and it's not long -enough- to just watch it as if it were two or three separate movies all leading into one big conclusion.

I genuinely believe Justice League would have been a better movie if it were planned out as three or four separate movies, ala the MCU. I could watch four or five really good DC movies in a row and not feel the run-time fatigue that I get even just half-way through this monster of a waste of time.


As for the dream sequence.. I get what you're saying. I do. And I'm usually all for fan-service -within- a story. But I just don't understand setting up all this extra stuff you know isn't going anywhere. It doesn't feel like a 'hashtag campaign request' so much as a giant middle finger to fans and, again, a waste of time. You could retroactively go back and put that scene into BvS and then we could agree on it being a cool piece of fan-service. But just tagging it on to the end of Justice League doesn't fit. It's just... there to be there.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 pm

Bip wrote:
maverick10126 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:40 pm
I think one of my biggest problems with this movie is...
Spoiler! :
Martian Manhunter.....I mean we all saw this coming as far as who he was in previous movies, but until it was actually a thing it was still just speculation. Now with him being confirmed as General Swanwick, it's just confirming a massive plot hole. So during MoS we are supposed to believe he was fine with Zod reshaping the planet? I mean...he lives there too. And then in Batman v Superman, he wasn't compelled like WW to step up and fight Doomsday? And what was his plan here, just sit this one out and let Steppenwolf fulfill Darkseid's plans? But don't worry, he'll be around for the next threat... I know I'm not covering anything new here and Superman should have been able to spot that he wasn't human right away but it just feels like poor treatment of the character to depict him as someone who's content to not step up and do anything at all when his power is comparable to Superman's.
That's just a problem I'm going to have a hard time reconciling. I enjoyed the rest of the movie (but I think part of that is relative enjoyment compared to the Whedon version).
This isn't really new.
Spoiler! :
He pretty much had the same introduction in the arrowverse. The only difference being in the identity he chose to portray and the fact that Superman actually knew him as the Martian Manhunter. I also wouldn't say he was content in not stepping up seeing as how in this he became a General in the army and later the Secretary of Defense. Also in the arrowverse he took on the identity of Hank Henshaw who was the head of the DEO.
I'm not saying it's right only that it's been done before.
Pretty sure they only made that decision after S1 started. I think their original intention was to make him Cyborg Superman proper.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut

Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:49 am

maverick10126 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:40 pm
I think one of my biggest problems with this movie is...
Spoiler! :
Martian Manhunter.....I mean we all saw this coming as far as who he was in previous movies, but until it was actually a thing it was still just speculation. Now with him being confirmed as General Swanwick, it's just confirming a massive plot hole. So during MoS we are supposed to believe he was fine with Zod reshaping the planet? I mean...he lives there too. And then in Batman v Superman, he wasn't compelled like WW to step up and fight Doomsday? And what was his plan here, just sit this one out and let Steppenwolf fulfill Darkseid's plans? But don't worry, he'll be around for the next threat... I know I'm not covering anything new here and Superman should have been able to spot that he wasn't human right away but it just feels like poor treatment of the character to depict him as someone who's content to not step up and do anything at all when his power is comparable to Superman's.
That's just a problem I'm going to have a hard time reconciling. I enjoyed the rest of the movie (but I think part of that is relative enjoyment compared to the Whedon version).
Some explanation of what I think the justification is:
Spoiler! :
this is supposed to be Jonn in a hidden and vulnerable point in his life. He's successfully blended in with human society, knowing that he's a sole surviving alien being on an alien to him planet.

He witnesses the world's reaction to first contact with alien life, via superman and the kryptonians, he knows that attempting to do anything would reveal himself and risk his life and possibly end up in a lab being experimented on.

He witnesses supermans sacrifice and maybe is inspired to come out more but is still reluctant. He sees the importance of lois and is obviously watching the newly forming justice league in some way. His meeting with lois was clearly a subtle way of nudging her back out into the world so she could be there when Clark returned. He helped but from the sidelines.

In the end he sees a group of diverse and unusual individuals including an alien suceed in saving the planet and proving that they can work together. He is inspired to finally reveal himself to bruce and offer to help the coming war (everything is expected to move towards full darksied invasion) and try become a hero like the group that inspired him.

It's a subtle journey of a deeply internal being who is living a very isolated life in an alien world trying to pretend to be normal and finally finding a path towards acceptance and a way to be himself around people. It may not be obvious in the two brief scenes in the Snyder cut but over the course of the trilogy its what I've come to surmise.

Also nothing says Clark didn't see Swanwick was an alien when he looked at him through the two way mirror but maybe he chose to keep that secret and it also helped him trust him just a little bit.

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