Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:58 am

I didn't like Kamala holding her own in a fight with a trained fighter - Kimo? She's been doing this for a week and have they mentioned if she was involved in any sports or anything that would give her good agility? Her power is a three-step process - "think, create, run" (or rather, fall) - but she's gotten really good at all three, real fast.

The second underground lair definitely felt a little much, and I thought we were there to talk to Nani? But Nani says "oh no, the cute boy is MUCH more D+'s demographic - leave me!" I loved the first part of this episode with her cousins and family before it Marvel-ed.

Car chase: couldn't figure out why she a) didn't use her power and instead b) stole a truck c) that she cannot drive (nice callback, but not being able to drive and driving is not cute) d) only to destroy a person's livelihood with zero repercussions. That sequence took me straight out with the lack of logic or necessity.

I missed Bruno.
KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:37 am
By comparison, and no surprise, Loki's show gets a better, smoother narrative. It gradually works from one element to the next and has lots of breathing room and time to digest what's going on for the audience and the characters involved. But it's a show about a character that's essentially 'done' in the MCU and, presumably, they can take all the time they need with this because he's not 'required' for an upcoming movie or marketing blitz.
I wish I watched a season of Loki that did ANY of those things - a smooth narrative, gradually working from one element to the next with breathing room to explore and digest what's going on the for the audience and the characters involved. I don't think any of that is what they put on screen.

From very disappointed memory:
Episode 1 - establish premise (working for TVA), speed up main character's emotional arc via montage to completely change his outlook on life to match the version we actually cared about
Episode 2 - explore premise kinda
Episode 3 - abandon premise entirely, force an instant connection with mystery villain with sincerity (?! from Loki?) and no b-story for second billed character (uh oh, Bruno got Owen Wilson-ed!)
Episode 4 - honestly don't remember this one except for they killed Loki (sure...) and for some reason this episode opened with the scene that should have ended Ep 3
Episode 5 - lotta Lokis all at the end of the world or somewhere because Loki is the specialist person/identity to ever exist or something; Richard E. Grant rocks a leotard
Episode 6 - dude we've never met talks for 15 minutes and jumps on the table before... CLIFFHANGER!

For a show that had no plans to film its second season any time soon, ending on a cliffhanger is an interesting choice. At least we knew it had a second season, unlike playing it coy like Moon Knight did. Also, didn't they just start production? Guess we might see it in 2023.

Anyway, compared to Loki, Ms. Marvel is such a better production from a storytelling POV. This show actually knows how to break episodes and create self-contained storylines and write secondary characters. The villains are definitely as lame as the TVA, and there are questionable choices for sure, but this is the show with the much smoother overall narrative at this point.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:09 pm

The thing I didn't like the most in episode 3 was Kamala not breaking the ef down mentally after she saw the older Red Mask guy dead. Being so casual about a dead body (let alone someone you've met before being killed almost in front of you) should have a bigger reaction from a teenager than "huh ok, don't have time to emote now, gotta run".
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:21 pm

That is a really good point. Bruno getting whopped last episode almost landed with her, but not as hard as it should have. She should definitely have more of a reaction to red dagger guy.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:05 pm

I really liked this episode too, Ms. Marvel is becoming one of my favorite D+ offerings. The show has so much heart.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:58 pm

Not sure about this week.
Spoiler! :
The closing, I guess, of the Veil was a little too... something - Anticlimatic? Easy? That the main baddie decides to sacrifice herself (I guess) to save her son (I guess) because Kamala says a few words about family seemed off to me. Especially after 5 minutes (or 75 years) earlier she had just killed Kamala's great-grandmother who apparently was a friend at least. Nothing really suggested she would do the sacrifice thing to save the world, unless it is a swerve? Which may be the case.

Was surprised the going back in time didn't result in some exposition about the bangle/legacy from the Great Grandmother to Kamala. I'll be honest, that segment in the past seemed more like a way to talk about the Partition than really needed for Kamala's story or the bangle's backstory per se, and the explanation as to why she was back there (and came back to the present so easily) seemed glossed over. I found it a bit odd.

So I guess neither her Mom or Grandmother actually knew what the bangle could do? Her Mom's reaction to putting it on when it came in the package made me think she had an inkling, not sure now.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Wed Jul 06, 2022 5:48 pm

fac wrote:
Wed Jul 06, 2022 4:58 pm
Not sure about this week.
Spoiler! :
The closing, I guess, of the Veil was a little too... something - Anticlimatic? Easy? That the main baddie decides to sacrifice herself (I guess) to save her son (I guess) because Kamala says a few words about family seemed off to me. Especially after 5 minutes (or 75 years) earlier she had just killed Kamala's great-grandmother who apparently was a friend at least. Nothing really suggested she would do the sacrifice thing to save the world, unless it is a swerve? Which may be the case.

Was surprised the going back in time didn't result in some exposition about the bangle/legacy from the Great Grandmother to Kamala. I'll be honest, that segment in the past seemed more like a way to talk about the Partition than really needed for Kamala's story or the bangle's backstory per se, and the explanation as to why she was back there (and came back to the present so easily) seemed glossed over. I found it a bit odd.

So I guess neither her Mom or Grandmother actually knew what the bangle could do? Her Mom's reaction to putting it on when it came in the package made me think she had an inkling, not sure now.
Yeah. I agree with all of this. I'm happy for those who are genuinely enjoying the show. I feel like it may be one of the worst Marvel offerings in terms of overall enjoyment and quality (especially story and secondary character-wise).
Spoiler! :
The first episode seemed promising. The artsy superimposed animation was interesting and at least kept the show kinetic. Since then, that creative direction has been completely abandoned. I really feel like the showrunners had a strong goal (explore the Partition, show the dynamic of a Muslim family) and every single other facet of the show was secondary, and feels like an afterthought.

The villains turned villainous without any real provocation, and their final sacrifice was similarly anti-climactic. That was how you resolve a threat which could have potentially destroyed the whole entire world? Now the young dude has identical powers to the main protagonist which is sadly a bad MCU trope. He clearly won't survive the series unless there is also going to be a Mr. Marvel. Veil seems like he should be an important character, but he left almost zero lasting impact. Kamala's powers are so poorly defined with all of the changes to the origin that it's hard to get invested in her heroics. She can essentially do anything with light constructs, but due to budgetary limitations she can't use her powers to get herself out of nearly any fight or predicament. Even the shot of her mother finally seeing Kamala as a hero with Kamala light construct stepping away happens off-camera, which cheapens the moment. We were told that her powers most definitely come from "within" however almost everything is tied to the importance of the bangle, including her ability to go back in time and literally alter past events. Will this ability ever be revisited or, was it just a McGuffin power used to justify an extended flashback to the Partition? Even the most central conflict (I guess) of her mother not knowing about her powers felt so inconsequential once resolved because the show never properly built up the anxiety around keeping the secret. It was too busy revealing secondary shadow organizations and diving deeper into "family secrets" which were nothing more than Kamala being the one to reunite the kid with their dad because of time travel powers. All of that seems like a lot of build up for something with no weight given that the bangle can seemingly do whatever you need it to in service of the plot or forwarding narrative. Coupled with all of the convenient escapes from Damage Control, I feel like everything outside of the family dynamic and the history of the Partition was totally mailed in.

I guess the last episode is next week? There is zero build up to that outside of seeing the final costume. Best Friend and Mr. Marvel seem to be in some sort of peril, but we've already seen how completely inept Damage Control is so I'm not really even concerned there.

I really liked Ms. Marvel in The Avengers game. I don't feel like they managed to make her similarly compelling in this show, which is a shame. Watching each week feels like a chore rather than something I'm excited for, which is the first MCU program I've felt that way about (outside of the majority of Agents of SHIELD and Iron Fist, I guess technically.)
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:10 am

So, some speculation:
Spoiler! :
Is it possible the energy waves that hit the Clan Destine (encased then killed them) was a version of Terrigen? Might fit with the blue arm we saw in the temple when the bangle was found?

Thought that just now, it appears to be a theory online as well.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:17 am

The solution to the dimensional portal was very anticlimactic. I do think the plot with damage control makes a lot more sense for a first fight since they are people and not inter dimensional beings also with the fate of the world on the line.

I’m not mad or against the show at all. But it does make me wonder if it was worth doing because they are forcing this character into the MCU. Beyond changing her powers which didn’t bother me really. In this episode they made up the reasoning for her to wear the lightning bolt insignia and red sash. Because Danvers was never Ms Marvel so Kamala is the first Ms Marvel so those costume callbacks have to come from somewhere else. The only part of her that will pay tribute to her favorite avenger is wearing red and blue. The writing needs to be leagues better to make it all not feel forced.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:51 am

I did enjoy the journey into the past. History almost always gives gravity to a story as we see people dealing with hardships.

It’s a shame the bangle history was just wasted. Ayesha (sp?) is an interesting character but they just don’t tell her story very well. Ayesha couldn’t use the Bangle to defend her family from the Jinn?

I love the family focus. But it’s hard to really care about the Bangle. I mean the rip in the veil arrived and was resolved so quickly that it means nothing. The magical elements well they are not very magical. It’s a shame too because it has lots of potential. The antagonist are bland. They also had interesting potential.

This show has the same pace and story beats as the extremely bland season of Agents of Shield dealing with Terrigen Mists and Skye’s Mom leading the Inhuman tribe. Great potential wasted. It is a chore to watch as they stumble along.

Oh well. Surely they’ll do a better job in the Marvels movie.

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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:40 am

Yeah... this episode changed my mind. What was this?!
Spoiler! :
Why was the Partition flashback split between episodes? Kamala can TIME TRAVEL?! She just watched another person die. And she's so NOT affected by any of it.

While her mother remains my favorite character (I think the actress is nailing it and finding all the nuance), the reveal of Kamala's power was a complete waste. Kamala light-jumping away off-camera was a TERRIBLE budget choice, as was her mother showing up right after the big bad is temporarily dispatched. And she had barely any reaction, except for being overwhelmed and impressed? Which is not the reaction I expected at all. It was better, but then underwritten. And then we don't get Kamala explaining everything to her family? "I'll be right back" - nah... it's just "the bangle". Like that explains it.

I think the Mom Djinn is inhabiting Kamran and will use his body to travel home somehow. I did like that Kamran legit thought Bruno's name was Brian, even though I feel like the actor didn't land that bit.

Learning about the Partition is cool and all - but that is definitely a S2 plotline. It's taken a lot of time, story and budget away from Kamala's growth and learning about her powers to explore the backstory of a piece of jewelry/a large piece of actual history. I miss Bruno and her other friend and her dad and brother - y'know, the TV show supporting cast who all got shunted aside (minus one scene) for two of only six episodes.

The Djinn really feel like they should have been saved for another season and Kamala could have stayed a friendly Jersey neighborhood superhero. The story was going okay until they steamrolled a history lesson into it and removed all the parts of the show that were working.
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Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:09 am

I really agree. Basically they wrote themselves into a corner. Season 1 would have been perfect if it stayed in Jersey and she’s dealing with damage control trying to find her. It keeps the whole family and her friends involved. But since they had to change her power to be mystical and tied it in to her heritage, we have to follow that thread to explain the power. So we leave most of the family and her friends behind which were the parts really working for the series. Season 2 would have been great to explore her heritage and rediscover her roots like in the comics. But seems like they want to fast track the character so she’s ready for the Marvels movie. Probably wasn’t designed for a season 2. Just intro her and then it’s off to the big screen.

I really don’t want to sour on the series and I hope the rest works, but that episode made me think for the first time that maybe changing her power was a bad idea. Or at least explaining fully where the power comes from in the first season was a bad idea. It was the first episode my gf and I didn’t really discuss afterwards. It was just like eh I guess that’s the episode. I paused a sec wondering if that was the finale because the bad guy storyline got wrapped. Thank god there’s still more to take care of back in Jersey because that was a weak and unsatisfactory end to the djinn and the our world will cease to exist if the portal is opened thing that’s way too huge for a first go around. Got to get it through writer’s heads that not everything needs an end of the world/universe story.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:20 pm

Not knowing too much about her powerset in the comics, all I ever saw was images of her with the big hands/extended arms. I have since read she can do Mr Fantastic stuff and size-changing stuff and what not. Assuming that they keep Reed as he is in the comics, and they already have a few folks in the Ant-Man realm, I can see why they maybe didn't want too much power repetition - and that she'd fit in better with the other Marvels with light/energy/constructs thing. I also think it moves away from having a 16-year-old girl getting involved in hand-to-hand fights/brawls in what is meant to be a less intense series about a character who is not violent/athletic by nature.

I think the bigger question is whether there is a second bangle out there that ramps up the power?
Spoiler! :
More speculation - I assume her bangle will have the same energy signature as the 10 rings, and that Carol/Monica will find her by tracking the power signature they first saw broadcasting from the 10 rings.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:26 pm

fac wrote:Not knowing too much about her powerset in the comics, all I ever saw was images of her with the big hands/extended arms. I have since read she can do Mr Fantastic stuff and size-changing stuff and what not. Assuming that they keep Reed as he is in the comics, and they already have a few folks in the Ant-Man realm, I can see why they maybe didn't want too much power repetition - and that she'd fit in better with the other Marvels with light/energy/constructs thing. I also think it moves away from having a 16-year-old girl getting involved in hand-to-hand fights/brawls in what is meant to be a less intense series about a character who is not violent/athletic by nature.

I think the bigger question is whether there is a second bangle out there that ramps up the power?
Spoiler! :
More speculation - I assume her bangle will have the same energy signature as the 10 rings, and that Carol/Monica will find her by tracking the power signature they first saw broadcasting from the 10 rings.
I think changing her powers probably has more to do with not knowing what to do with Inhumans than seeming similar to Mr. Fantastic.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:10 pm

For as much as they've floundered with the Clandestine storyline, they've sailed with the tone, family dynamics and inter personal relationships. Kamala, her mother, her grandmother and great grandmothers story intertwining has been greatly executed and acted.
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Re: Ms. Marvel - MCU Disney+ Series

Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:20 pm

RoyalCollector wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:10 pm
For as much as they've floundered with the Clandestine storyline, they've sailed with the tone, family dynamics and inter personal relationships. Kamala, her mother, her grandmother and great grandmothers story intertwining has been greatly executed and acted.

Agreed. The villains have rarely been standouts in the D+ shows so far, Agatha excluded, so I'm not too concerned about them. I'm here for the heroes themselves and they've really captured comic Kamala's energy accurately, as well as introducing me to an unfamiliar culture and elements of World History I never learned.

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