WandaVision - Disney+ Series

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Shinigami_PL
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:31 pm

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:30 pm
Hang on, does Strange even have a Time Stone any more? The one he gave to Thanos was destroyed and then Cap returned the 'extra' to the Ancient One to get re-destroyed by Thanos the first time.
There are no Infinity Stones in the main MCU timeline currently.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:37 pm

yojoebro82 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:14 pm
The more I think about it, the more it seems Quicksilver was really this decade's Mandarin/Trevor. They really pulled the rug out from under us there.
The difference to me is that Mandarin/Trevor was a misdirection for plot purposes for both the audience and the characters in the story. That didn't bother me as it was a story decision and a swerve, although I get why it bugged people. Quicksilver was only misdirection for the audience (in terms of his appearance - the role of a fake Quicksilver was misdirection for both the audience and characters), which is why I think it was a mistake to add that sort of distraction, at least for me, by casting Peters. It would have been like casting Fassbender as Wanda's father in the flashback but not have meant it to be Magneto in terms of the story. It wouldn't serve the story being told. Having said all of that, now that I feel I get their intention (a joke about recasting actors) it doesn't distract anymore.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:42 pm

Shinigami_PL wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:34 pm
Oh man, sounds like it would've been a really cool sequence.
We did have a whole sequence where Darcy, Monica, [and] Ralph all meet up with the kids, and they're in Agatha's house, and they think maybe they should steal the Darkhold," director Matt Shakman explains below. "They go down there to get the book, and they're reaching for the book, and the rabbit hops up in front of the book."
Does that sort of confirm that the sequence with the kids, Monica, Heyward and Darcy in the town square was a revision or rewrite? I feel like something significant about the ending was changed.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:50 pm

fac wrote:
Shinigami_PL wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:34 pm
Oh man, sounds like it would've been a really cool sequence.
We did have a whole sequence where Darcy, Monica, [and] Ralph all meet up with the kids, and they're in Agatha's house, and they think maybe they should steal the Darkhold," director Matt Shakman explains below. "They go down there to get the book, and they're reaching for the book, and the rabbit hops up in front of the book."
Does that sort of confirm that the sequence with the kids, Monica, Heyward and Darcy in the town square was a revision or rewrite? I feel like something significant about the ending was changed.
They definitely did reshoots, rumored around the end. IIRC, this was supposed to be out a few weeks before Doctor Strange 2, so there probably was a more direct tie-in.

Remember that FatWS was supposed to be the first MCU show, premiering last fall. (I’m expecting reshoots there too, since I think Black Widow existing is to be a springboard for other new characters, and this series would seem to be a natural home. Especially with them traveling the globe).
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:39 pm

RoyalCollector wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:25 pm
TinkerersAssistant02 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:04 am
RoyalCollector wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:45 am
Spoiler! :
Yeah let's turn yourself in to a potentially mentally taxing imprisonment and poking and prodding by third parties with no expertise. Let's do that when it is clearly shown you have now developed reactionary reality warping powers that explode at moments of extreme duress and alter people and places around you unintentionally. Just because Wanda accepted herself as The Scarlet Witch does not mean she now has an omnipotent control over these powers. I'll agree, studying in the Darkhold isn't perhaps the best solution, but what else is she to do? How is she certain Strange and other Sorcerers won't try to kill her outright because of the prophecy? Or another like Agatha take her under her wing with promises of knowledge but then seek the power for themselves?

And I'll also mention, Vision and the Children were real. The Hex was real. They were not figments of her imagination. They came FROM her, but they were fully developed entities that had their own consciousness and sentience, that could not be controlled by Wanda or governed by the Hex like the other residents. Vision came directly from her, being part of the Mind stone, but also independent,brought to life. Billy and Tommy, were products of their union, two new creations. They were all tied to the Hex, and when that ended, they just ceased to be, akin to those who were snapped out of existence. Basically, they weren't illusions as was suggested. That is why Wanda was in deep denial about what she had brought about and why she was dismissive or refused to confront the pain she was causing, because on some level she must have known ending Hex would effectively kill all that she had so desperately wanted.
Spoiler! :
I mentioned rehabilitation or treatment, not jail or offering herself to a military research agency or whatnot. I agree, that likely would be bad. But I feel she owes those people proof that she is taking responsibility for what she did to them. And is there any reason to be so suspicious of MCU Dr. Strange? I'd like to think if she came to him for genuine help, he'd oblige. Besides, Wong would probably help him keep perspective in any event. But I actually had Hawkeye more in mind here. She seems slightly closer to him than most people. It may not work because of real-life MCU scheduling & plans, but in story terms, he seems like he'd be there to help her find her way. Not in knowledge of her powers, but as a friend who will treat her like a normal person. To me, anything is better than self-isolation for an extended period of time when you're in need of serious help.

I don't see her Vision & the kids as real to anyone but her. They're powerfully real to her, sure, but that doesn't make them real to me in an overall sense. I don't think the snap would apply to beings like them because they're purely mystical constructs. She's powerful enough to carry out wish fulfillment, and went to the max there. I would say she did have control over at least Vision though. When he was getting close to figuring something out, she'd just reset him. Or rewind time, or whatever. Manipulative. Not good.
Spoiler! :
The show pretty much covers that they are real and tied to the Hex. They operate on independent thought, interact with characters both within and outside the hex all on their own accord. True, Wanda may have reversed time to suit her storylines, but this was quickly caught on to by Vision who realized this and other aspects of the Hex were very wrong. That's where the emotional punch in the finale comes from in the first place. Wanda is ending the Hex and giving them up, wiping them out to free the Westview residents. Whether or not you personally believe they are sentient is one thing, but in the context of the show it was pretty well established they were created from her but were free functioning entities. You can even see the part of the Mind Stone forming into new life from Wanda. Original Vision was brough to life by the Mind Stone, it gave him consciousness. Same dealio here except Wanda is now providing both that AND the body. And the fact the kids are crying out for help in the post credits scene, showing they persevere in some way, is evidence enough.
Spoiler! :
Or the "cries of the kids" are just Mephisto/Immortus/whoever, luring Wanda into a Darkhold trap. Guess we'll know whenever DS2 releases.

I suppose my seeming antagonism towards the kids being "real" probably stems from my jumping off Marvel's comics in 97. I haven't bought a single issue since then. So while I know they did much more with the kids in the last 20 years or so, my lasting impression sorta remains that they were just fragments of Mephisto.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:45 pm

There's probably a good story-telling reason why we never got to see them try to pass through the HexWall. It would have been too telling either way; had they survived as normal *or* been torn apart like Vision.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:57 pm

Spoiler! :
There’s also the obvious Multiverse answer to how the kids still exist.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:05 pm

Does no one care what happened to poor “bee keeper” from ep 2-4? Was it explained? I missed it if so. Probably absorbed into the Hex.

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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:26 pm

JPC wrote:
fac wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:50 pm
I was thinking a bit more about possible revisions to the ending - reshoots were done in June 2020...
I looked into this bc June was waaaaaaayyy too early for filming anything, esp something of this magnitude. Kathryn Hahn said in an interview in June 2020 that she would be doing reshoots, but I don’t think those actually started until Sept 2020, and it looks like they were done in LA.

I def noticed Wanda’s one CGI line in her final three lines. Very noticeable and a clear edit to set up the post-credits scene - rather, to clarify that she was learning and not going full evil (and thus accidentally setting more incorrect expectations).

Her walk into the empty lot last episode and the similar footage from this episode were also visible reshoots.

I’ve only watched the finale once so far and have massive issues with HOW they told this story, but those little reshoots/cleanups stood out to me.

Also that Wanda suddenly turned into Sarah Sanderson, complete with hood.
Just curious- what was it about the empty lot scenes that makes you think it was a newer shoot?
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:31 pm

Prophet924 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:05 pm
Does no one care what happened to poor “bee keeper” from ep 2-4? Was it explained? I missed it if so. Probably absorbed into the Hex.

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My impression of his undoing was that she re-wound time so he never crawled through the sewers at all - but I never questioned how she got time powers and it doesn't add up now that I do.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 am

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:31 pm
My impression of his undoing was that she re-wound time so he never crawled through the sewers at all - but I never questioned how she got time powers and it doesn't add up now that I do.
It seems that she pretty much has any power she needs. She appears to be able to tap into all of the powers of the infinity stones. She has now shown powers similar to the reality stone, mind stone, space stone, time stone, power stone, and space stone. She may not have mastered all of them, but she seems to be able to utilize some of their power.

The infinity stones were a conduit through which a person could tap into the energy that is all around them in the universe. Wanda seems to be a conduit herself.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:50 am

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:31 pm
Prophet924 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:05 pm
Does no one care what happened to poor “bee keeper” from ep 2-4? Was it explained? I missed it if so. Probably absorbed into the Hex.
My impression of his undoing was that she re-wound time so he never crawled through the sewers at all - but I never questioned how she got time powers and it doesn't add up now that I do.
We saw the cable connected to him get severed and turn into something like a jump rope on the end that was in the Hex, right? So I don't think he was "re-wound" back out. I assume he ended up as a town person tending bees, like the SWORD folks thought they were in the circus after the Hex went over them.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:09 am

I feel like this would have worked better if they didn't have Monica trying to justify Wanda and paint her as a victim. Wanda literally held these people hostage against their will. Having their freedom stripped away.

I'm guessing in Dr. Strange 2 she'll be the villain. Otherwise what's the point.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:17 am

Eh Monica was around to witness that Wanda wasn't aware what it was doing to them. Again mental breakdown created the world and in her head she was happy so it must be happy for everyone else. It was a shitty, rundown town where everyone looked miserable. She made them all smiley and happy in an ideal town. We saw Wanda didn't know it was torture for them and she was remorseful and gave it all up for them.

Villain is harsh. Dr. Strange and Wanda's relationship will be contentious but it won't be so black and white like villain vs hero. Always a common villain even if two characters butt heads.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:42 am

Maximoff wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:17 am
We saw Wanda didn't know it was torture for them and she was remorseful and gave it all up for them.
She didn't know or did she know but didn't want to admit it? Whether she meant to or not, she willingly continued to do so after Vision told her that it causes the residents immense pain. They showed you how bad it was for other people, and then she just does it to Agatha...again.

I'm sure that if you were in the same situation, you wouldn't care about her "mental breakdown", you would immediately want to return to your "shitty, rundown town". Anyway...she will most likely read something bad in this book and other things will happen.

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