WandaVision - Disney+ Series

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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:37 pm

Did anybody catch the CGI Wanda face (like Carrie Fisher in Rogue One) for one line between Wanda and Monica at the end? It's the line where Wanda says something like "I don't know how to control these powers. But I will."

The scenes immediately either side of that are normal.

I've read that the ending may have suffered from re-writes and re-shoots. Whether that was for covid-19 or other reasons is not clear. But for me something is up on the following grounds:

CGI Wanda
The complete disappearance of Darcy suddenly
The sudden turn to being outright evil by Hayward
The complete lack of any payoff for Monica's powers
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:31 pm

Not sure if her face was CGI (like a deepfake) or if it was a reshoot where the face was composited in?

About Darcy, the credits list an actress for Darcy body double - as if she wasn't there at all for the scenes in the town square. So maybe they did reshoot some of the ending and she wasn't available, or they had only gotten so far then were delayed by Covid and she wasn't available for the initial filming.
Spoiler! :
After thinking about it for a day, I think Hayward's evilness at the end was the most annoying development. Is Hayward wanting to have a Vision that could be controlled any worse than Stark's original Ultron plans? He didn't need to be evil, just represent what has to be a scared populace that sees these powerful people acting under very limited control and half the planet disappearing for five years.

I am suspicious that Wanda maybe wasn't coming across as very sympathetic at the end and they amped up the bad guys a bit more in response. I agree with Aleks that Wanda's "my bad" is lacking. I am thinking of the Dark Phoenix saga where Jim Shooter (correctly, I think) noted that Jean couldn't eradicate a whole planet and be redeemed and get the happy ending - not that this is at that level of course, but unlike Wanda's accident in Lagos, she was a bit more complicit in this one and at a minimum not questioning it enough. Maybe adding in "I need to better understand my power" was meant to help with her being remorseful and reinforce that it was a mistake.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:28 am

fac wrote:The credits provide names for the townspeople - interestingly their names in the sitcom were not their real names - not sure if these names mean anything to anyone but figured I'd list them.
Mrs Hart - Sharon Davis
Norm - Abilash Tandon
Herb - John Collins
Dottie - Sara Proctor
Phil - Harold Proctor
Beverly - Isabelle Matsueda
Dennis - "The Delivery Man"

That last one is a little odd that he doesn't get a real name.

Some odds and ends:
Spoiler! :
I also rewatched the scene with Quicksilver in his basement from DoFP - it is a similar vibe of a man-boy cave as the attic is in the show, but nothing seemed to be the same as a hidden link. Just doing due diligence. :wink:

Commercials - I guess the shark was Agatha sucking the magic out of the castaway, who withered away as Agatha's victims did.

I am 99% sure there are little Mephisto heads carved into the columns in Agatha's lair by the way. I am worried about who will take care of Senior Scratchy.
The Proctors were characters in “The Crucible”...set up during the Salem Witch Hunts. I’d hazard a guess that it’s not a coincidence and that the other names might be Easter eggs about historic/fictional witches.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:50 pm

I was thinking a bit more about possible revisions to the ending - reshoots were done in June 2020 and by then they would have known that the Dr Strange film would not be released close to the series finale (the film was originally set for May 7, 2021 while WandaVision debuted about on schedule, so there would have only been a 2 month gap or so between them). I could see that possibly causing them to rework the ending if it had more of a cliffhanger that directly led to the film, or if any sort of overarching theme or connections for Phase 4 was going to have already been hinted at in Black Widow, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Eternals or Shang-Chi, which in the original schedule would have all been out by now.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:02 pm

Wanda is now like the Hulk. It is kind of ironic. She willingly screwed with Banner to make him a super powered menace in AoU.

Now she has the potential to be far greater.

She has to live with that. She was forged in grief and suffering and loss. If she doesn’t find the secret Banner found that power will wash over the world and destroy it.

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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:20 pm

fac wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:31 pm
Spoiler! :
After thinking about it for a day, I think Hayward's evilness at the end was the most annoying development. Is Hayward wanting to have a Vision that could be controlled any worse than Stark's original Ultron plans? He didn't need to be evil, just represent what has to be a scared populace that sees these powerful people acting under very limited control and half the planet disappearing for five years.

I am suspicious that Wanda maybe wasn't coming across as very sympathetic at the end and they amped up the bad guys a bit more in response. I agree with Aleks that Wanda's "my bad" is lacking. I am thinking of the Dark Phoenix saga where Jim Shooter (correctly, I think) noted that Jean couldn't eradicate a whole planet and be redeemed and get the happy ending - not that this is at that level of course, but unlike Wanda's accident in Lagos, she was a bit more complicit in this one and at a minimum not questioning it enough. Maybe adding in "I need to better understand my power" was meant to help with her being remorseful and reinforce that it was a mistake.
Spoiler! :
I would say Wanda is far less complicit here. She had a mental break down and had no idea what was going on. She didn't even know she could do any of this.

Imagine what she has been through. She loses her parents at 10 years old. She is stuck next to a beeping bomb for 2 days, waiting for it to go off. She is radicalized by a terrorist group and end ups with powers. Her brother, the only person she trusts and loves, if killed. She accidently kills a bunch of people while trying to save them. She finds another person she can trust and love and he begs her to KILL HIM to save the universe and she does, only for the death to be reversed and he is killed in front of her, only this time his death is not a heroic self sacrifice it is a murder. Then she sees the body of her beloved spread across a lab as a bunch of people are taking him apart only to be told he was never hers to begin with. Then, after all that, she heads to what she believes to be a house where at least she can reflect on what has happened. A house her loved on got for them to be together in. Then when she arrives, there isn't even a house for her to live in, just a plot of land and a foundation. She literally had nothing.

She had a mental break down and went into a dissociative state. Her powers set up the hex to protect her fragile psyche. She in no way meant to trap a town, nor knew it was possible.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:25 pm

fac wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:50 pm
I was thinking a bit more about possible revisions to the ending - reshoots were done in June 2020 and by then they would have known that the Dr Strange film would not be released close to the series finale (the film was originally set for May 7, 2021 while WandaVision debuted about on schedule, so there would have only been a 2 month gap or so between them). I could see that possibly causing them to rework the ending if it had more of a cliffhanger that directly led to the film, or if any sort of overarching theme or connections for Phase 4 was going to have already been hinted at in Black Widow, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Eternals or Shang-Chi, which in the original schedule would have all been out by now.
Spoiler! :
I do think there were changes made throughout production. I think Monica's engineer story element was suppose to go somewhere and was re-written. There is no other reason for them to make such a big deal out of it. Darcy just kind of disappeared and I have a feeling she was not available for reshoots. Hayward making a HUGE heel turn was a bit much too. Flat out shooting at children. I really don't know what his end game was. He just seemed like a generic evil guy.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:01 pm

fac wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 2:50 pm
I was thinking a bit more about possible revisions to the ending - reshoots were done in June 2020...
I looked into this bc June was waaaaaaayyy too early for filming anything, esp something of this magnitude. Kathryn Hahn said in an interview in June 2020 that she would be doing reshoots, but I don’t think those actually started until Sept 2020, and it looks like they were done in LA.

I def noticed Wanda’s one CGI line in her final three lines. Very noticeable and a clear edit to set up the post-credits scene - rather, to clarify that she was learning and not going full evil (and thus accidentally setting more incorrect expectations).

Her walk into the empty lot last episode and the similar footage from this episode were also visible reshoots.

I’ve only watched the finale once so far and have massive issues with HOW they told this story, but those little reshoots/cleanups stood out to me.

Also that Wanda suddenly turned into Sarah Sanderson, complete with hood.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:31 pm

Child_of_the_90's wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:20 pm
Spoiler! :
She had a mental break down and went into a dissociative state. Her powers set up the hex to protect her fragile psyche. She in no way meant to trap a town, nor knew it was possible.
Spoiler! :
I agree with you about how she got there and it not being intentional, but my feeling is that she needed to show more remorse than was shown at the end however - it was leaning too much (to me) towards what she gave up by ending the hex and not enough towards the what the town endured.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:40 pm

I was going off a report that Bettany cancelled a Con appearance (Tampa Bay) in early-July due to reshoots, but maybe the reshoots didn't happen then or were done in smaller batches to follow Covid protocols (June was when it announced, my mistake.) Date notwithstanding, the reshoots occurred after it would have been known that the very next MCU property after WandaVision would be Dr Strange in a couple of months.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:41 pm

I really thought this show was brilliantly written and Olsen did an absolutely phenomenal job. It quickly became my wife's favorite thing Marvel has done yet. But honestly, I am so tired of mid-credit and after-credit stuff. Just put it in the [email protected]#$ show and stop making me fast-forward through credits and second-guess myself if I turn the show off with a minute and 20 seconds left.
fac wrote:
Child_of_the_90's wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:20 pm
Spoiler! :
She had a mental break down and went into a dissociative state. Her powers set up the hex to protect her fragile psyche. She in no way meant to trap a town, nor knew it was possible.
Spoiler! :
I agree with you about how she got there and it not being intentional, but my feeling is that she needed to show more remorse than was shown at the end however - it was leaning too much (to me) towards what she gave up by ending the hex and not enough towards the what the town endured.
Spoiler! :
I thought it was spelled out rather well at the end that there was nothing she could -do- that would be enough anyway. Lots of people internalize remorse, and externalize it mostly by 'saying sorry.' That wasn't going to be good enough. Olsen, in my opinion, did a great job of portraying someone that is visibly destroyed from what they've gone through. She was crushed. There was a lot spelled out on her face while she was going through all of those emotions of remorse, loss, grief, guilt... But this was also the 'acceptance' stage of grief episode. She can recognize how badly she hurt people (very obviously recognized it from how the last third of the episode played out) and still be perfectly aware that no visible display of remorse is going to help. So she packed up her grief inside, as most of us do in real life, and left.
What else was she supposed to do? They don't make greeting cards for 'sorry I mentally enslaved you and forced you to be in my fantasy TV show where I could have my dead husband and non-existent kids.'
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:55 pm

I don’t think Wanda knew
Spoiler! :
how she could atone for what she did. She looked back as she flew out of town. She felt she was giving them a better life and everyone seemed happy. That was an illusion. One her powers forced upon others. Her powers reached out to choke them when she was overwhelmed.

The people made it clear that her forging-Wanda’s pain and suffering burned them as the power was exhibited . Knowing that made it clear how much her powers are a responsibility and burden she carries now. She separated herself from more she could definitely harm.

Wanda needs a teacher. The Darkhold is not that. She will bring about a great calamity. Everything she does will be driving her to it. It will be a matter of how she responds when she does cause that calamity.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 am

The show was pretty eh to me. I mean it was okay, but I definitely wasn't too excited or thrilled by it. I guess I fall into the camp of people who actually preferred the first 3 episodes, since it seemed to be doing something different from what we're used to with this franchise, then came episode 4 with the more of the same feeling. And for me it never recovered from there.

I didn't pay any attention to the hype or trailers before it released (same for F&WS and Loki, it was only looking in a thread here the other day that I became aware Owen Wilson is apparently in Loki?), and I didn't spend any time thinking/speculating about the show between episodes either. So I didn't get amped up by "theory" excitement, but didn't get irritated by "theory" disappointment either. So I'm totally indifferent to all the Quicksilver stuff. I just watched each episode each week with my buddy, while he maintained decent enjoyment for the duration, and I grew slightly more bored. Again, eh overall. For me.

My bigger gripes: I didn't care much for the Agatha portrayal. Hahn was fine, I just didn't like what they did with the character. And the SWORD boss was almost as lame as can be. Again, more the fault of the script than the acting. Generally, the acting was fine by me. And I feel Wanda was let off way too easy at the end. Maybe, just maybe, she couldn't help herself at first, but it was established within the early episodes that she had conscious and manipulative control over events (rewinding time, obscuring things, kicking people out of town, etc.). So, no, she should be held responsible for her choices. Speaking of...
KnightDamien wrote: What else was she supposed to do?


Turn herself in for rehabilitation/treatment/training for a decent start. It's like she learned nothing from Agatha.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:54 am

Spoiler! :
There is nothing she could do to make up for what happened other than what she had already done. She literally sacrificed her children and husband to free these people. To them that may mean nothing, but for her that was everything. When she realized what she was doing, she thought she was giving them better lives, but when she realized the truth she was ready to end it. It was a huge sacrifice for her.

It's not like she could just go around to everyone and say sorry or make them a pie. Sometimes the only thing you can do when you screw up is leave and hope one day people forgive you.

However... Agatha was right about one thing. Wanda locking her into the Agnes role is cruel. It shows what Wanda is willing to do to those that cross her and her family.
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Re: WandaVision - Disney+ Series

Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:00 am

TinkerersAssistant02 wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 am
The show was pretty eh to me. I mean it was okay, but I definitely wasn't too excited or thrilled by it. I guess I fall into the camp of people who actually preferred the first 3 episodes, since it seemed to be doing something different from what we're used to with this franchise, then came episode 4 with the more of the same feeling. And for me it never recovered from there.

I didn't pay any attention to the hype or trailers before it released (same for F&WS and Loki, it was only looking in a thread here the other day that I became aware Owen Wilson is apparently in Loki?), and I didn't spend any time thinking/speculating about the show between episodes either. So I didn't get amped up by "theory" excitement, but didn't get irritated by "theory" disappointment either. So I'm totally indifferent to all the Quicksilver stuff. I just watched each episode each week with my buddy, while he maintained decent enjoyment for the duration, and I grew slightly more bored. Again, eh overall. For me.

My bigger gripes: I didn't care much for the Agatha portrayal. Hahn was fine, I just didn't like what they did with the character. And the SWORD boss was almost as lame as can be. Again, more the fault of the script than the acting. Generally, the acting was fine by me. And I feel Wanda was let off way too easy at the end. Maybe, just maybe, she couldn't help herself at first, but it was established within the early episodes that she had conscious and manipulative control over events (rewinding time, obscuring things, kicking people out of town, etc.). So, no, she should be held responsible for her choices. Speaking of...
KnightDamien wrote: What else was she supposed to do?


Turn herself in for rehabilitation/treatment/training for a decent start. It's like she learned nothing from Agatha.
Spoiler! :
She had brief periods of lucidity, but she was obviously nuts. Just look at how she was acting during the Modern Family episode. Things were glitching all around her and all she did was sniff the milk and eat her cereal. She was obviously not truly aware just yet and very much in denial.

Who was she suppose to turn herself in to and be trained by? SWORD? The same agency that tried to kill her and her family? Agatha? The one who tried to drain her magic and kill her and her family? The only other person I can think of would be Dr. Strange, but it isn't as if the two of them are pals. They haven't spent any time together that I am aware of.
I don't even know if she knows who he is.

She went off into the mountains, far away from anyone else, so she could learn about herself and understand her powers. She is just trying to find some peace.

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