the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:33 pm

AdrienVeidt wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:46 pm
Wait, when did we see him take it? Last I saw he put it in his thigh pocket and the dead guy was all rage, no 'juice'.
Spoiler! :
we're lead to believe he took it off camera. He bends a lead pipe around a guys hand and then the last shot with the blood on his shield, he has a red spot on his neck that looks like he injected himself
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:44 pm

heinousjoe wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:33 pm
AdrienVeidt wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:46 pm
Wait, when did we see him take it? Last I saw he put it in his thigh pocket and the dead guy was all rage, no 'juice'.
Spoiler! :
we're lead to believe he took it off camera. He bends a lead pipe around a guys hand and then the last shot with the blood on his shield, he has a red spot on his neck that looks like he injected himself
Agreed -
Spoiler! :
plus Sam asks him "What did you do?" during the fight as if he could tell he is powered up.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:49 pm

I gotta quit sniffin' glue while watching my shows. I missed all that.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:37 am

hoo boy that was a good one
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the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:50 am

Damn.

It just fell like dominos. You saw it but it just rolled on. Much like the Netflix Daredevil series.
Spoiler! :
Am I the only one really disappointed in how Walker and Hoskins show zero planning in their ops. These are special forces guys right? That breed of soldier plans more. They don’t just go in all Willy nilly. They also would have more than body armor and a shield to deal with those super powered “soldiers” who out match them. Karli’s team aren’t bullet proof. Trained soldiers with guns settle them down. This world has more types of technology designed to deal with powered threats.

I get it. The world is different. It’s that writing I. dislike. Maybe write Walker being a better threat and the Flag Smashers outwit him at his best makes them more interesting.

The Wakanda Warriors also screwed up. They are just as much to blame as Walker for Zemo’s escape. I like great action sequences but that too was dumb. They had Zemo. They just take him not have a tussle with the boys.

I don’t know it is an engaging story but these things really bugged me.

I’m also bugged me that Bucky couldn’t stop the poorly planned soldiers from interrupting Sam’s talk with Karli. Bucky is more than a match for those not well written guys.

It is probably just me. I didn’t like seeing red wing destroyed and Hoskins death. It’s like Bucky’s fall from the train just seemed artificial. It’s just me.

It’s a good episode .
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:57 am

On some of your points:
Spoiler! :
the thing with walker and Hoskins going alone is all about their belief that as the new cap and partner they are intimidating and a force to be respected and reckoned with. It's showcasing walkers underestimating of his enemies and his overestimating of himself. That leads to him taking the serum, realizing he gets beat by wakandan guards who are just normal humans. Hoskins is following walkers lead and trying to be a bit of a moral compass but when asked if he'd take the serum he shows the same lack of wisdom and sense walker has. They are more gung ho soldiers and its implied by walker that his medals were from some seriously tragic events. I'd suspect he survived a bad op that got people killed, showcasing a history of poor planning and shoot now ask questions later attitude he's conveyed.

Ever since getting the shield he expects to command the same respect as cap and when he doesn't, he doesn't understand why, it's something like narcissistic or another psychological term I dunno how to describe it.

Also buck didn't stop walker because he's actively trying not to hurt people and he knows trying to stop both of them would result in that and he in some ways also doesn't trust the flag smashers so he doesn't want to leave Sam hanging. He used it as an excuse to help but it's a mistake. Walkers jab at him for leaving his partner to get hurt just pokes the part of him that maybe feels protective of Sam.

I expect walker to be a bigger threat now that he's amped, he has skills with the shield and with the serum he can probably beat most of the average fighter type flag smashes like bucky can. I agree with someone else who said he can go black ops now as us agent and it could be cool but I kinda want to see him fight bucky now that he's on even keel. Bucky was able to go toe to toe with cap walker must feel some small desire to try it in order to see if he can be as good or better than Steve.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:27 am

I'm also going to assume that with these events:
Spoiler! :
The Powerbroker's going to use Walker as a means to get Karli. PB wants Karli dead for hustling vials of the Super Soldier serum behind their back. Walker now wants Karli dead for killing Lemar. They have a common goal and Walker is in a vulnerable state perfect for manipulation.

I also think Sam's talk with Karli will circle around into an attempt to talk down Walker during the climax or close to it. He's basically exactly what Sam worked with before becoming Falcon: A soldier dealing with mental and emotional trauma.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:59 am

Spoiler! :
Probably playing into the showrunner’s hands here, but I think I’m on board with Sharon as the Power Broker. It was kind of subtle, but when she was walking and talking with Sam on the phone in this episode, she kept criss-crossing through some barricades, and the four armed guys on guard there were good with it and formed a wall after she was past the barricaded area. Just hinted to me that she has power in Madripoor (as did having a personal driver in the last episode).

One other thing that peaked my interest was how she was able to directly track Walker. Did I miss something there? Maybe there is a tracking device on the shield? Or an implant in John? I know she is former SHIELD, so wondering if she is leveraging that part of her former life or using her connections as the Power Broker.

The biggest card I feel Sharon has going for her to keep her status as the Power Broker is the trust that Sam and Bucky have in her. I mean, both saw her with Steve in Civil War. She has always been a friend and ally, and she has now done two big favors for them in the past two episodes. However, her darker outlook and cynicism hinted to me a change in her attitude and behavior in the post-blip world. She is scorned, and her refusal to return to the US and her desire to get pardoned may have something to do with her actions as the Power Broker and not just her previous actions in Civil War. This is probably somewhat a stretch based on the last time we saw her in Civil War, but it seems to be leaning that way IMO.

The Power Broker (Sharon or no) wants Karli gone, and with Walker now probably losing the mantle of Captain America, the Power Broker may be able to manipulate Walker to go after Karli outside the bounds of the US Government. I think Marvel will keep Walker around as a redemptive character, but I don’t think he will be redeemed in this season.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:30 am

Spoiler! :
Very happy they are giving more screentime for Ayo. First Dora they showed in the MCU and made such a big impression in Civil War.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:46 pm

While liking the series I do think there is a little bit of hand waving going on as to some details, like why there seems to be no authority either Sam or Walker seem to be working with - they are both US Military yet not coordinating and globe hopping without any concern to international law it appears.

It doesn't seem like anyone told Sam (who at least started on an official mission) to work with Walker, so they just keep meeting without anyone saying there is a plan to have them coordinate. If Walker was told he is the lead on the mission and that Sam is supposed to assist, his attitude makes more sense at first. But it just seems like these guys are independent and not part of any reporting line. And Bucky, while pardoned, has what role exactly other than coming along because he said he would?
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:47 pm

fac wrote:While liking the series I do think there is a little bit of hand waving going on as to some details, like why there seems to be no authority either Sam or Walker seem to be working with - they are both US Military yet not coordinating and globe hopping without any concern to international law it appears.

It doesn't seem like anyone told Sam (who at least started on an official mission) to work with Walker, so they just keep meeting without anyone saying there is a plan to have them coordinate. If Walker was told he is the lead on the mission and that Sam is supposed to assist, his attitude makes more sense at first. But it just seems like these guys are independent and not part of any reporting line. And Bucky, while pardoned, has what role exactly other than coming along because he said he would?
I’m definitely more curious about that with Bucky and Falcon. Walker having some authority to do whatever is believable, in association with his position and the GRB being an international aid effort being targeted. I don’t need the exposition. But in-universe, Falcon and Bucky are a pardoned traitors with some military/black ops contract/sanction. Their actions including at least partnering with Zemo, if not tied to his escape, would seem to put them back in serious trouble with the US Government again. I don’t think there’s time to squeeze that arc into Falcon being detained and given the authority to take down Walker (might have made more sense during the last episode before the last scene), but some exposition wouldn’t hurt.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:07 pm

I just assume that Sam and Bucky are operating like superheroes in comics, doing whatever they want, wherever they want. Walker mentioned something about them being free agents in ep. 2 I believe.

As for the new Cap, I feel like he's the embodiment of America's imperialism, bringing "peace" and other American propaganda values to the lesser countries.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:26 pm

Capman wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:59 am
Spoiler! :
One other thing that peaked my interest was how she was able to directly track Walker. Did I miss something there? Maybe there is a tracking device on the shield? Or an implant in John? I know she is former SHIELD, so wondering if she is leveraging that part of her former life or using her connections as the Power Broker.
Spoiler! :
I think a tracker on the shield's probably a good possibility since she did steal it back after Civil War. Would make sense for her to keep tabs on where it is. It's either that or she has access to however the US keeps tabs on Walker's whereabouts when on-duty and essentially hacked their systems via the satellite access she mentioned having when Sam called in a favor.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:42 pm

Bucky isn't working for the military, he's a pardoned criminal. Sam was assisting the US military but is not in service, he was retired or discharged at least in winter soldier. He's operating as an independent contractor for the government.

With this situation neither of them are beholden to walker who has authority within his government service position (part of this global initiative group) and maybe has global authority over his missions and some government agencies depending on what level of control he's given and specific countries involvement.

He is trying to insist that they work for him by getting bucky released presumably bypassing his court ordered therapy with a claim that he's operating for him but that doesn't make it guaranteed official, buck didn't sign off on it and I don't know if the government can just commandere him into service like that.

It all adds to walkers general attitude of superiority and thinking he's in charge or that he's the boss cause he's got the title but in reality it means nothing to most people.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:48 pm

The whole point of civil war was trying to make the heroes government agents. Cap and falcon were against that and then they got Bucky who obviously wouldn’t want to work for anyone. Then they are all on the run hiding from the government leading up to infinity war and by time we get through end game and everyone returning I think the government gave up on controlling them and laid off because you know they saved the universe.

Which is why the government can’t just pick someone to be captain America. They didn’t own cap to begin with. Must just be pure arrogance that walker would think any avenger would just follow or respect him. Honestly I’m surprised they have walker going out on missions at all. At least without a full team of backup, surveillance, etc. He wasn’t super powered before this episode. Even as a decorated soldier you’re really just going to send him out with a shield to take down super powered bad guys? Going to end up with a dead cap and make America look stupid. He made more sense as a symbol to do appearances.

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