the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:56 pm

Sam as a contractor still would have a mission plan, objective and rules of engagement set by the government - it appears he has gone way off book though. And not so much Bucky being commandeered, but why was he allowed to go with Sam in the first place, he just showed up and got on the military plane to Europe with Sam. I agree they aren't beholden to Walker but the fact no one seems to be asking them to work together is what I find odd.

By hand waving I'm just saying they have left it pretty vague, given the show started with Sam doing an op that was being handled and coordinated with the military with worries about crossing a border.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:07 pm

In episode 3, Walker says as long as they get the job done, what would the military care. He's definitely overreaching his "rank"
He's kinda the embodiment of what the world views America as, doing what they want when they want
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:02 am

Does anyone think
Spoiler! :
Old Man Steve will show up in some form to encourage Sam and/or Bucky?
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:03 am

Capman wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:02 am
Does anyone think
Spoiler! :
Old Man Steve will show up in some form to encourage Sam and/or Bucky?
That's cool but I doubt it. They have been very vague about if he's alive or not
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:41 pm

Four episodes in and I think this series is not great. Winter Soldier and Civil War are in my top 3 MCU movies, and I think all the Star Wars movies are average at best, but my god, the worst episodes of Mandolorian are better than the best episodes of Wandavision and TFATWS....
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:13 pm

“All the Star Wars movies are average at best”

Yah, enjoy the trolling.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:20 pm

fac wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:56 pm
Sam as a contractor still would have a mission plan, objective and rules of engagement set by the government - it appears he has gone way off book though. And not so much Bucky being commandeered, but why was he allowed to go with Sam in the first place, he just showed up and got on the military plane to Europe with Sam. I agree they aren't beholden to Walker but the fact no one seems to be asking them to work together is what I find odd.

By hand waving I'm just saying they have left it pretty vague, given the show started with Sam doing an op that was being handled and coordinated with the military with worries about crossing a border.
Thing is his first mission against batroc was him literally going into enemy airspace because the government couldn't He's a contractor, but definitely operating off the books, and as such isn't beholden to specific government oversight or direction. They've clearly come to an agreement where he can help the military but isn't operating solely under their direction which was the whole issue with civil war.

Since he's clearly operating on his own with just a government handler giving him the op report and info he's free to do things like bring buck on a mission or just stop and go back on his own being a superhero. The government can totally choose to shut him down but walker gave them a free pass too by pulling them out to work for him, they just didn't. He's letting them run so he can follow and try to catch left overs.

It's clearly a really screwed up political/military situation but that's the issue of trying to make cap a military weapon. Also steve went against the government but they do still own the captain america title and while they managed to convince sam to give up the shield peacefully, they probably could have just taken it from him. Steve and the shield were all made by the SSR under government supervision as a government project so they would retain all rights to do what they want with it. Steve was just the guy that got the shot and was put in the suit, like Isiah, or walker.

I do agree that letting walker go on ops with so little is foolish, i assumed he'd be a star spangled man type show piece since he wasn't a super soldier, maybe he's going off book as well, like steve did and going on ops because he wants to.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:55 pm

Benedict wrote:“All the Star Wars movies are average at best”

Yah, enjoy the trolling.
You're kidding, right?

It's one thing to like something, and another to say it's the best in its class. The original trilogy was innovative in its world building- but take away those science fantasy trappings and they are poor. And it all went downhill from there.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:56 pm

I thought the urgency in the opening mission was trying to get the person back before they got to the enemy airspace, not that Sam was in, or could go into, enemy airspace? I need to rewatch it I guess. Hence why it seemed to me he was acting under some rules and not as an Avenger per se.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:00 am

"Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" has great writing and amazing characters. And even "Return of the Jedi" with all it flaws has great moments. You simply can't call it "average at best". At this point, it's just a fact. But whatever.

I don't think this show is that well written. I liked the first episode, but then everything slowly began to getting worse. “The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be” is the dumbest thing i've heard so far. [email protected]#$ Yes, sure you are! They all felt OK going to another country and beating up new Captain America? What if they accidentally injured or killed him? I would like to see T'Challa face at this moment. If Walker said the same thing, he’d be seen as main bad guy by the show. But not Dora Milaje...now i just hope he doesn't become another "stupid mustache twirling villain" in the next episode.

Hell...All this in order for Zemo to escape through the hatch...
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:11 pm

Aleks wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:00 am


. “The Dora Milaje have jurisdiction wherever the Dora Milaje find themselves to be” is the dumbest thing i've heard so far
That was my favorite line from the episode ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It doesn't have to be true, but the Dora are constantly badass. That line is up there with T'Challa saying to Klaue "Every breath you take is mercy from me" (though that was taken straight from the comics)
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 pm

Again, this is a superhero show. Nobody would've had anything against that line if they put it in a comic book.
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:39 pm

And even if it wasn't, it's still a damn good line of intimidation that lines up with Wakanda's relationship with the rest of the world. They never operated within any other country's limitations or restrictions. Why does that suddenly change?
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:12 pm

Shinigami_PL wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:28 pm
Again, this is a superhero show. Nobody would've had anything against that line if they put it in a comic book.
Doesn't matter if it's "a superhero show", the problem is not how it sounds, but what it means. “We do what we want wherever we want to.”
There was an entire movie dedicated to how that mentality flawed. The whole point of the Sokovia Accords was working outside of jurisdiction. And the show itself shows that this is "good". And AGAIN, If Walker said the same thing to our heroes faces, he’d be seen as bad guy by the show.
heinousjoe wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:11 pm
It doesn't have to be true, but the Dora are constantly badass.
More like "stupid". They showed up and just threw a spear at John Walkers head for no reason. And then they just started beating him without warning. He doesn't have super powers up to this point. And for what? You can be "badass" without it. They only showed me that they are a bunch of idiots who cannot negotiate. It was only thanks to this battle that Zemo escaped. Again, the show doesn't show it in a bad way. It was more important for them to show that "Dora are constantly badass".
heinousjoe wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:11 pm
That line is up there with T'Challa saying to Klaue "Every breath you take is mercy from me"
No it's not. T'Challa line was great. Klaue was an arrogant villain, Walker is not (at that point anyway).
MARVEL KNIGHT 2099 wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:39 pm
And even if it wasn't, it's still a damn good line of intimidation that lines up with Wakanda's relationship with the rest of the world. They never operated within any other country's limitations or restrictions. Why does that suddenly change?
Because after that line they started beating Walker ? I get that Wakanda was never meant to actually be the “good guys”. Hell, in Black Panther they are just another super advanced country, that does bad things behind the scenes. But all this was completely unnecessary. I just don't see why the Dora couldn't work with Bucky and Sam to keep Zemo under control and once they were done, Zemo doesn't get away and faces justice. They continue to ignore the world and it's going to cost them. What's going happen to Bucky and Sam now when Zemo got away?
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Re: the Falcon and the Winter Soldier - Disney+ Series

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:50 pm

For the sake of the story, Zemo had to get away, and Walker had to feel humiliated, even by non-superhumans.


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