Black Widow MCU Movie

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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:28 pm

Benedict wrote:Ok, the timelines are confusing me
BW born 1984, Budapest takes place before Iron Man 2 (2011) as the “mission” was effectively the condition of her defection to shield.
If it was 2010 for example, how did 11 year Antonia become ‘that’ actress in 2016? That’s not a 6 year difference, so when did Budapest take place? A further 5 years before? When BW was 21?

It’s seems like they really wanted to use Antonia’s actress, and just shoehorned her in somewhere. Or alternatively bank on Taskmaster’s name and Antonia was always going to feature in the move as chief henchperson.

I had details spoiled by the Io9 social media intern deciding to post the character reveal on Monday. Apparently spoilers “improve the experience due to the expectation”, I’ve never heard a spoiler that didn’t taint my experience.

Anyway, I really enjoyed whenever ‘the family’ were on screen together, great chemistry between the cast.

Ray Winstone was…a choice, he could barely suppress his accent at times. One of the lesser interesting villains in the MCU for me.
This is the fatal flaw of introducing real dates into a serial set over many years.

I think Civil War was the first MCU to introduce a real date (in the past). Since then they have doubled down with setting Captain Marvel in the 90s and all the past events in Endgame.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:50 am

Finally saw this - enjoyed it, liked it as a swan-song for Nat as it gave her character depth and her own stand-alone hero quest, which was overdue. BIttersweet of course given her ending, and the fact she felt she had no family at that point.

Yelena was a great character as well, I look forward to her popping up again - she seems like they could take her in the more ruthless and less heroic Black Widow direction they resisted with Nat. Red Guardian as a true believer for the cause was well done, and thought his somewhat twisted respect/pride in his "daughters" was great. I fully believe that Steve came out of retirement to fight him in the mid 80's too...

I felt they maybe pulled a punch by not overtly showing the "training" of the Red Room girls and them being treated as a resource and not people. They sort of showed it in the credits in the montage, and of course had the one "terminate" herself after chasing Nat. But they focused much more on the mind-control aspect than the inherent cruelty in what must have happened to Nat and Yelena before getting to that point. I think seeing a little bit of both of them dealing with their "family" falling apart after Cuba - like Yelena wanting to see her parents and being ignored for example, or outright rejected by Alexei, or Nat and Yelena being separated, would have made the reunions more interesting. Dreykov was a truly despicable villain, so maybe it was too intense for a film they wanted to appeal to young-ish girls to show anything happening to pre-teens or teens, but I felt the horror of the Red Room concept seemed a little too much tell, and not shown.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:22 pm

I thought these movies were only going to be Premium on D+ for a month after theater release but now the D+ page says BW won't open up to regular D+ members until Oct 6th. Is this a new change or am I just extra-dumber than usual and mis-remembering it?
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:27 pm

Black Widow may be a special case? I imagine the next few D+ releases are gonna be weird since they're still working out the best way for them to maximize screwing their stars. :)
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:42 pm

Might'n it have something to do with ScarJo's current lawsuit against Disney for 'lost wages' or [email protected]#$ because she would have made more money if they only released the movie in theaters and didn't stream it at all? (Such a bitch-ass lawsuit.)
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:46 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:42 pm
Might'n it have something to do with ScarJo's current lawsuit against Disney for 'lost wages' or [email protected]#$ because she would have made more money if they only released the movie in theaters and didn't stream it at all? (Such a bitch-ass lawsuit.)
Meaning you side with Disney? Just to clarify.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:15 pm

I don't think Disney acted with malice by releasing as they did, but also don't know the details as to how the Disney+ revenue is being handled. Disney would have preferred to release to theaters and have close to a billion in box office as much if not more than ScarJo, but that isn't happening.

On the one hand, this was likely to be a huge payday for ScarJo so I can see why she would be frustrated by the circumstances and I suspect this is mostly a gambit to have an out of court settlement that splits the difference - on the other hand I suspect she has made more money playing Black Widow than from all of her other roles combined and has greatly benefited from the MCU, so think it is a little out of line. And on the other other hand, it seems a little tone deaf to me to complain about only making $20 million when essentially everyone who relied significantly on those closed movie theaters (like the managers, staff, vending suppliers, etc) for income had a much more miserable year financially.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:18 pm

And as far as I know, the next releases (Shang-Chi, Eternals) will be theater only - but that could change if things go backwards again in terms of the pandemic.

Its interesting, not sure what her contract was, but I think if Disney+ existed a year or so earlier Black Widow would have been developed as a D+ show and not a feature.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:30 pm

Probably right about the D+ show rather than film.

My understanding is she was contracted to be paid in the back end, or profit participation, so she'd get X amount of the box office. Given the nature of the release was changed, the contract should have been changed to reflect that as well. She did the work, she should get paid. Feige apparently is embarassed and upset at what is happening and has been fighting for her to get the deal she's now suing for since months before the release even happened. Disney even apparently made noises to Johanson and her representation that changes WOULD happen, but they obviously didn't so here they are. I don't get the issue especially when other studios have adjusted for streaming releases in the same way she was expecting.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:56 pm

Ru_1977 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:46 pm
KnightDamien wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:42 pm
Might'n it have something to do with ScarJo's current lawsuit against Disney for 'lost wages' or [email protected]#$ because she would have made more money if they only released the movie in theaters and didn't stream it at all? (Such a bitch-ass lawsuit.)
Meaning you side with Disney? Just to clarify.
No. Poorly worded. I mean the fact that it's made it to litigation is a [email protected]#$ ridiculous waste of the judicial system. Disney has billions of dollars. And frankly, ScarJo has made millions from playing this role. There's literally zero reason both sides couldn't come together for a solution that works for both of them without involving taxpayer-funded courts and judges. I don't know the situation enough to know if it's more the fault of one side or the other (I suspect it's more Disney, but there's no way of knowing if ScarJo was also just hostile to even negotiating what she thought was owed in the face of an unprecedented situation). The entire lawsuit is ridiculous not because 'ScarJo is wrong' but because 'this shouldn't even be happening, and taxpayer money will now help decide whether the billionaires need to pay more money to the millionaire and isn't that just borderline offensive right now.'
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 am

Thank you for clarifying!

I am definitely far too ignorant when it comes to court stuff to even comment on taxpayer money etc. I know she has made millions playing the role, but I still feel she should get what was agreed on. It seems like Disney tried to pull a fast one and get out of paying her. I assume other actors are taking notice of that as well.

And yeah, Hollywood people are probably overpaid, and most regular people are underpaid, but I still believe in agreements being honored.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:15 am

I think her lawyers will have to prove that the Disney+ release cost her box office revenue that was greater than what was gained from the Disney+ revenue. Given the reluctance of people to go to theaters now, and the drop off from the first weekend, that might be hard to show to be honest. I assume her lawyer claiming she'd earn $50 million was based on this being a "Black Panther" sized hit which is a stretch. I also assume there was a clause in the contract that said if it couldn't be released as expected that X would happen in terms of compensation - as back-end compensation is a risk/reward decision for an actor, especially if the film isn't popular.

I agree with KnightDamien, the whole thing is a waste of time as well and should have been worked out otherwise.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:30 am

Ru_1977 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 am
And yeah, Hollywood people are probably overpaid, and most regular people are underpaid, but I still believe in agreements being honored.
I think honoring agreements work both ways, and while those back-end deals can be very lucrative when films are hits they can be terrible when films are not, especially if the actor passed on a higher base salary in exchange for a higher back-end. Unfortunately for ScarJo, she bet on herself and that bet was partly undercut by the pandemic, as it was for many, many people.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:40 am

fac wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:30 am
Ru_1977 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 am
And yeah, Hollywood people are probably overpaid, and most regular people are underpaid, but I still believe in agreements being honored.
I think honoring agreements work both ways, and while those back-end deals can be very lucrative when films are hits they can be terrible when films are not, especially if the actor passed on a higher base salary in exchange for a higher back-end. Unfortunately for ScarJo, she bet on herself and that bet was partly undercut by the pandemic, as it was for many, many people.
Sure yeah, that's totally fair. But would the streaming revenue not be considered back end when it happened simultaneously? I know some were quite anxious to return to normalcy and hit the theaters, but I will gladly choose streaming every time it's offered as an alternative. In my eyes, it's not an issue of betting on herself and getting bitten by the pandemic but rather the corporation attempting to redefine terms.

Again, I have absolutely no mind for legal... stuff. Or even things.
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Re: Black Widow MCU Movie

Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:59 am

fac wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:30 am
Ru_1977 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 am
And yeah, Hollywood people are probably overpaid, and most regular people are underpaid, but I still believe in agreements being honored.
I think honoring agreements work both ways, and while those back-end deals can be very lucrative when films are hits they can be terrible when films are not, especially if the actor passed on a higher base salary in exchange for a higher back-end. Unfortunately for ScarJo, she bet on herself and that bet was partly undercut by the pandemic, as it was for many, many people.
Just for context for myself is the back end deal similar or the same thing as what Jack Nicholson did for Batman?

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