Official Marvel Cinematic Universe thread

[Ru_1977]

Spoiler! :

. Spider-Man is a character who NEVER gets a happy ending.

I agree...

Spoiler! :

The 'happily ever after' is to not have an ever after at all.

You are both monsters!

Spoiler! :

OK, you may not really be monsters - it is probably a fair read of the ending of NWH and does fit with Peter's character always having some tragedy, and granted Peter seemed happy that MJ and Ned were friends and off to MIT and happy - so it wasn't totally sad.

But I'm going to hold out hope for MJ and Ned to get to know Peter again, because I actually have a heart unlike you two.

I totally get that you want that. But...

Spoiler! :

Everything Peter went through was for THIS ending. If he hadn't lost Aunt May, he probably wouldn't have been able to make that choice. But he did, so he made it. And he finally accepted that he HAD to make that choice. He'd been resisting it every since people close to him started figuring out he was Spider-Man, and it was always a danger. NWH put Peter through the #&%^ing mill and he EARNED that ending like nobody's business. To undo it, even in a natural "they just hung out enough to get to know him again then BAM!" way is just... I'm sorry, cheap. I think I'm at least something of a romantic but this would be like the first movie after Endgame (Far From Home) finding a quick way to cheat Black Widow and Tony Stark's deaths. It cheats the audience but it also really cheats the characters. Magic, quantum-stuff, time travel, multiverse, all that is perfectly fine, but I demand the creative teams be honest and true to the characters at the absolute least. Yes it's tragic, yes of course you and I want MJ to remember. That's what makes that scene SO painful. That's what makes it so beautiful. Peter CAN do it, he can totally devote the time to get MJ to remember, and them being who they are, they likely will fall in love again but then what? Then she will be just as in danger as she was before. She could end up like Aunt May. He sees the wound on her head and he realizes, no, wait, the best way to protect her...

[KnightDamien]

I agree...

Spoiler! :

The 'happily ever after' is to not have an ever after at all.

You are both monsters!

Spoiler! :

OK, you may not really be monsters - it is probably a fair read of the ending of NWH and does fit with Peter's character always having some tragedy, and granted Peter seemed happy that MJ and Ned were friends and off to MIT and happy - so it wasn't totally sad.

But I'm going to hold out hope for MJ and Ned to get to know Peter again, because I actually have a heart unlike you two.

I totally get that you want that. But...

Spoiler! :

Everything Peter went through was for THIS ending. If he hadn't lost Aunt May, he probably wouldn't have been able to make that choice. But he did, so he made it. And he finally accepted that he HAD to make that choice. He'd been resisting it every since people close to him started figuring out he was Spider-Man, and it was always a danger. NWH put Peter through the #&%^ing mill and he EARNED that ending like nobody's business. To undo it, even in a natural "they just hung out enough to get to know him again then BAM!" way is just... I'm sorry, cheap. I think I'm at least something of a romantic but this would be like the first movie after Endgame (Far From Home) finding a quick way to cheat Black Widow and Tony Stark's deaths. It cheats the audience but it also really cheats the characters. Magic, quantum-stuff, time travel, multiverse, all that is perfectly fine, but I demand the creative teams be honest and true to the characters at the absolute least. Yes it's tragic, yes of course you and I want MJ to remember. That's what makes that scene SO painful. That's what makes it so beautiful. Peter CAN do it, he can totally devote the time to get MJ to remember, and them being who they are, they likely will fall in love again but then what? Then she will be just as in danger as she was before. She could end up like Aunt May. He sees the wound on her head and he realizes, no, wait, the best way to protect her...

100%

Spoiler! :

I'll pretty much always take a happy ending if a film wants to give it to me. I'm a sucker like that. And honestly.. I won't even logic-bomb it. I'll just accept it and be happy. But if I'm going to sit down to really think about it and figure out what makes -sense-.. well.. that's different. Then it really does become clear that the sad ending now is the happy ending of the future. Because it's the ending where Spider-Man doesn't get everyone around him killed. Because being a sueprhero isn't a game you play on weekends and evenings and then go back to your normal life. That's the whole point.

[Ru_1977]

100%

Spoiler! :

I'll pretty much always take a happy ending if a film wants to give it to me. I'm a sucker like that. And honestly.. I won't even logic-bomb it. I'll just accept it and be happy. But if I'm going to sit down to really think about it and figure out what makes -sense-.. well.. that's different. Then it really does become clear that the sad ending now is the happy ending of the future. Because it's the ending where Spider-Man doesn't get everyone around him killed. Because being a sueprhero isn't a game you play on weekends and evenings and then go back to your normal life. That's the whole point.

100% at that as well, that's exactly all entirely true for me as well. I'm a total sucker, but if they leave it to me to dwell on...

Spoiler! :

As a fan, as a writer, and even as a somewhat-romantic person, that ending felt so completely apt. Even forgetting how true it rings for Spider-Man the comic, it just felt... I mean, I'm exhausted by the end of that movie but it feels like good work at least.

[KnightDamien]

100%

Spoiler! :

I'll pretty much always take a happy ending if a film wants to give it to me. I'm a sucker like that. And honestly.. I won't even logic-bomb it. I'll just accept it and be happy. But if I'm going to sit down to really think about it and figure out what makes -sense-.. well.. that's different. Then it really does become clear that the sad ending now is the happy ending of the future. Because it's the ending where Spider-Man doesn't get everyone around him killed. Because being a sueprhero isn't a game you play on weekends and evenings and then go back to your normal life. That's the whole point.

100% at that as well, that's exactly all entirely true for me as well. I'm a total sucker, but if they leave it to me to dwell on...

Spoiler! :

As a fan, as a writer, and even as a somewhat-romantic person, that ending felt so completely apt. Even forgetting how true it rings for Spider-Man the comic, it just felt... I mean, I'm exhausted by the end of that movie but it feels like good work at least.

Not to belabor the point, but..

Spoiler! :

Yes! I just think that part of being a romantic (or a somewhat-romantic) is that you want to be made to feel things. It's really a misconception that you always want to go away happy or with the proper love-romance ending, but you are romanced by being made to experience emotions. And I'd say the ending of FFH is a romantic ending in that regard - it evokes strong and real emotion. At least it did for me.

[Ru_1977]

Well... that's a great point. And certainly a major aspect I look for in movies. I wanna be moved for sure, even with popcorn flicks.

[fac]

Just to be clear:

Spoiler! :

I thought the ending to NWH was well earned, and I thought the scene at the coffee shop at the end was perfect. If it did end there and we never got another Holland Spiderman, I could live with it as a bittersweet ending, and I can see how they wrote it that way.

But I also think it wouldn't devalue that ending if they pick back up 5 years later and MJ, Ned and Peter end up interacting again, so that Peter doesn't lose everything forever, and has dealt with being on his own for a while. Note I'm assuming that any happy reunion so to speak wouldn't happen in the first 10 minutes of the next film, but would be earned and would be complicated. Or even held off for another film, if they know they will do more.

[Ru_1977]

And I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't go with that.

Spoiler! :

I guess to me... if that were to happen, what makes it feel cheap was the utter lack of any hint in NWH that i will happen. As far as NWH is concerned, Peter walks away from MJ and Ned and that's that. Maybe after a movie or two, I would feel better about it, but it's also like... if Endgame ended with a hint of Tony existing as A.I. now (which....I mean... it sorta did since his recording looked RIGHT at Morgan), then I wouldn't feel so bad about that happening later. But when you have such a perfect ending to a story, only for another story that follows to go back on it in any manner, to me it feels tacked on. It was my biggest issue with the Star Wars sequel trilogy that got seriously ratcheted up for the final one. If they do like you say, and they actually put in the work, and it doesn't simply undo the great ending they already pulled off, I'll go with it. It's not my first choice, but if it really works then I won't spit on it even a little bit.

I get they want Zendaya back, and I in no way blame them. She got better and better with each one, their chemistry is obviously great, and I even want her back. But that's why I'm trying to think of ways to really softly reboot what they had while staying true not only to her character but also Peter's ultimate sacrifice. I guess I appreciate when a character leaves their cake on the table and doesn't eat it. Not that they always have to, but that WAS the ending.

[scribb]

Do we really need the spoiler tags at this point?

[KnightDamien]

Do we really need the spoiler tags at this point?

Why not? It's minimum extra effort to show the courtesy for a bit longer while anyone that missed out has a chance to get caught up. The Blu-Ray only came out a month ago. I have no problem dropping on some super-easy-to-use spoiler tags for a while longer.

[SalemCrow]

I mean, it literally takes 2 seconds to hit the button in the reply box. It's not like we're being asked to code our messages in ancient sandscript without giving the conversion guide.

I saw it in theaters, and bought the Blu Ray 2 weeks after it came out, but my schedule has kept me from watching it at home thus far. Not hard to imagine some people haven't had a similar experience with free time.

[Ru_1977]

Thunderbolts apparently now has a writer and director.

[Mr potatohead]

I just read my first story w/Thunderbolts (1st and 2nd appearances) this morning in the latest David, Hulk Omnibus. Coincidence? I think not!

[CTVampSlayer]

I've liked a few Thunderbolts comic runs, but MCU Ghost and Taskmaster weren't compelling enough characters for me to want to see more of. I'd be watching for Bucky, Yelena, and Zemo.

[september_death]

I’m really curious how they keep it from being “Marvel’s Suicide Squad” in the eyes of the general public.

We’re not going to get the initial reveal because what the comics did was an nigh-impossible feat. But I think the MCU government being very public about them (splitting the baby between Thunderbolts and Dark Avengers) is the best answer.

[Ru_1977]

Yeah,either way, villains pretending to be heroes (whether new heroes, like the original Thunderbolts, or posing as established heroes like the Dark Avengers) isn't the same as villains being forced to do impossible missions. And the concept got me back into comics for a few years as well because I found it so compelling. Especially when they buy into the idea they ARE heroes and can make a difference. It's just, of course, they're maniacs and fascists deep down.