Marvel Legends Common Design Strengths and Weaknesses

[MARVEL KNIGHT 2099]

For me I think Hasbro's done fairly good overall, but the cons they've amassed are starting to really throw the balance out of wack. Things like the head sculpts and face printing? Fantastic. The body sculpts, especially the MCU stuff? Wonderful, they look great more often than not. The character variation and version selections? Fun and unpredictable. Pinless sculpts? Only makes the figures look better. Articulation? Some of the best you can get domestically.

But then some of those pros come with cons. Pinless sculpts...unless they decide to mix and match parts to save cost and make the figure look off. Articulation...is inconsistent, especially between variations of the same character. Why all versions of Spider-Men don't use the same Retro Body mold baffles me. Why they don't all have toe joints after RYV also baffles me. Accessories? Pitiful as of late. Pricing? A dead horse still being beaten but so long as it remains a mounting problem the bat's gonna keep meeting the side of the corpse until something gives.

If you're a Marvel fan, ML's obviously gonna be your go-to and you'll get a lot out of it for sure. The issues are just getting harder to ignore as time goes by so it makes you wonder how long until the bubble busts.

[JRoug]

When I think of the most egregious examples of placeholding, I go back to...

X-Men Juggernaut BAF wave - Versions of Havok and Cable no one asked for. Less popular version of Kitty Pryde on an oversized body. Modern Iceman instead of classic.
X-Men Apocalypse BAF wave - Black Magneto? And to a lesser extent, Punk Storm. Classic Storms will come LATER.
X-Men Warlock BAF wave - Version of Colossus no one asked for. To some extent, Polaris too.
Kingpin BAF - Not the classic look with the ascot and purple pants? No problem, the NEXT version will be correct.
Cannonball - No legs? No problem, the NEXT version will have legs.
Siryn - No screaming head? No problem, the NEXT version will have one (heavily implied at least).
Amazing Fantasy Spider-Man - Best Spidey body but not the classic red-and-blue? No problem, the NEXT version will be CLOSER.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because you don't read modern comics doesn't mean no one else does. I'm very grateful for all of those figures. Punk Storm is one of the most popular versions of the character. Such a terrible take.

I disagree - this is a good take. I get there's demand for modern versions of classic characters and Hasbro should get to them, BUT there's clearly more demand for classic versions and they seem to deliberately put out less in-demand versions first and they get used as placeholders.

This is clearly a strategy to get fans to buy multiple versions of a character they would normally only buy once, provided the classic iteration was offered first.

Classic Falcon, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Hercules, even AUNT MAY, ad nauseam have yet to be made in the modern Hasbro era (post the return of ML). Why? Because they will sell you *close* versions until they finally get to the classic version. When will get a non cel-shaded Morph? I was happy to have that first Colossus at the time because it was, finally, a Colossus. When the classic version came out, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Look how many Storms we got before the GSXM 1 target two-pack - ridiculous.

And of course it was a two-pack, so you had to buy two figures with no BAF part, so margins are better. Same goes for the retro-carded figures - they are great packages, but easy to pick and choose because there's no BAF sales driver (and the themes are generally all over the place, even within a specific line). I didnt buy Hercules or Falcon non-classic costume figs - which I would've if they were in a wave with a BAF (most likely a doomed concept anyway).

I like Paul Harding's work, he's really talented, but some of his sculpts are too goofy - I'd prefer neutral expressions unless it's the Nth time we're geting the character. While the new paint app tech has great potential, too many characters look like they have lipstick on, instead of natural lip color, or comic accurate lip-color - but this is relatively new business and I hope they tweak as time goes on.

Pricing is a combination of factors. They are inevitable and I don't want to piss and moan about them, but I suspect Disney needs to recognize their licensing fees and put demands are too costly for Hasbro to maintain margins as other fixed costs rise.

Disney doesn't seem interested in making mass market toys themselves and there are really no other viable options besides Hasbro, so they need to recalibrate - or else it goes away. When you look at lines like Power Rangers or GI Joe, you see what no royalties get you in a Hasbro figure - more new sculpts, more accessories, etc.

The Marvel team has to spend a significant part of their sculpting budget on all-new sculpts for movie lines that don't sell. This must be take away from the comic budget, which leads to frankensteining with minimal new parts. I'm guessing Hasbro is contractually compelled to do a line for every film, but some of these recent films have such limited toy appeal Hasbro must've known they were doomed from the start, yet significant resources are directed into them. Then there are charactesr that Marvel has plans for in films that the public (and Hasbro) aren't even aware of yet, that get shoved into lines at Marvel's insistence. It's not helpful to Hasbro when, a year after the figure has been clearanced, we learn they're coming to the MCU.

And it's not just Marvel - the last Star Wars negotiation took forever and caused a huge disruption to the line. People pile on Hasbro (sometimes rightfully, sometimes wrongly) but some of the blame comes from outside the company.

[CTVampSlayer]

When I think of the most egregious examples of placeholding, I go back to...

X-Men Juggernaut BAF wave - Versions of Havok and Cable no one asked for. Less popular version of Kitty Pryde on an oversized body. Modern Iceman instead of classic.
X-Men Apocalypse BAF wave - Black Magneto? And to a lesser extent, Punk Storm. Classic Storms will come LATER.
X-Men Warlock BAF wave - Version of Colossus no one asked for. To some extent, Polaris too.
Kingpin BAF - Not the classic look with the ascot and purple pants? No problem, the NEXT version will be correct.
Cannonball - No legs? No problem, the NEXT version will have legs.
Siryn - No screaming head? No problem, the NEXT version will have one (heavily implied at least).
Amazing Fantasy Spider-Man - Best Spidey body but not the classic red-and-blue? No problem, the NEXT version will be CLOSER.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because you don't read modern comics doesn't mean no one else does. I'm very grateful for all of those figures. Punk Storm is one of the most popular versions of the character. Such a terrible take.

I disagree - this is a good take. I get there's demand for modern versions of classic characters and Hasbro should get to them, BUT there's clearly more demand for classic versions and they seem to deliberately put out less in-demand versions first and they get used as placeholders.

According to you.

[yojoebro82]

My take away here is "placeholder" is a subjective term.

[H-bird]

Yeah I don’t consider any of those placeholders, or underhanded at all. A strategy to get people to buy what they might not otherwise? Sure! But there’s a reason this line has been going for 20 years, and part of that is hitting a bunch of different eras and spacing out demanded characters. If you don’t want the look of a particular character then don’t buy it! Especially if you know they’ll make the one you want later and you’ll be cheesed you bought the first.

In general I do agree with the critique of getting characters right the first time, I just don’t think costume selection counts. Legless Cannonball is the standard example, or chilled out Siryn (assuming a rerelease with a screaming head comes later). Those instances I do find frustrating as it sometimes feels like the initial offering is hindered by a desire to do it better on rerelease.

[Ibentmyman-thing]

My only major complaints have to do with legs. Specifically, Flamefart Cannonball was a terrible idea. I know there are people who are all "that's the only way I'd display him" but I don't care what my figures do in other people's displays. For me, it wasn't an action figure. Thankfully, that was rectified with a fully legged Cannonball, and I think (hope) the backlash was significant enough where that kind of gimmick won't be an issue going forward.

However, Spider-Ham and Howard the Duck being statues from the waist down is another terrible idea. If there's no room in the budget for articulated legs, then don't do that figure until there's room in the budget. I don't care if I'm the only Spider-ham fan in the toy collecting community, getting one shot at him and having him be so completely disappointing as a fully-realized toy kind leaves deep and long-lasting scars that therapy still hasn't helped me come to terms with. And doing it again with Howard the Duck--even if it's a cartoon variation on a live action variation...or something--still sucks.

So basically, my only complaint with Marvel Legends as a whole is don't short-change any character and keep them from being every bit the toy that any other figure in the line is, because somebody probably cares a lot about that character.

[JRoug]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because you don't read modern comics doesn't mean no one else does. I'm very grateful for all of those figures. Punk Storm is one of the most popular versions of the character. Such a terrible take.

I disagree - this is a good take. I get there's demand for modern versions of classic characters and Hasbro should get to them, BUT there's clearly more demand for classic versions and they seem to deliberately put out less in-demand versions first and they get used as placeholders.

According to you.

Yes, that's what "I disagree" means.

[spideyboy1111]

When I think of the most egregious examples of placeholding, I go back to...

X-Men Juggernaut BAF wave - Versions of Havok and Cable no one asked for. Less popular version of Kitty Pryde on an oversized body. Modern Iceman instead of classic.
X-Men Apocalypse BAF wave - Black Magneto? And to a lesser extent, Punk Storm. Classic Storms will come LATER.
X-Men Warlock BAF wave - Version of Colossus no one asked for. To some extent, Polaris too.
Kingpin BAF - Not the classic look with the ascot and purple pants? No problem, the NEXT version will be correct.
Cannonball - No legs? No problem, the NEXT version will have legs.
Siryn - No screaming head? No problem, the NEXT version will have one (heavily implied at least).
Amazing Fantasy Spider-Man - Best Spidey body but not the classic red-and-blue? No problem, the NEXT version will be CLOSER.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because you don't read modern comics doesn't mean no one else does. I'm very grateful for all of those figures. Punk Storm is one of the most popular versions of the character. Such a terrible take.

I disagree - this is a good take. I get there's demand for modern versions of classic characters and Hasbro should get to them, BUT there's clearly more demand for classic versions and they seem to deliberately put out less in-demand versions first and they get used as placeholders.

This is clearly a strategy to get fans to buy multiple versions of a character they would normally only buy once, provided the classic iteration was offered first.

Classic Falcon, Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Hercules, even AUNT MAY, ad nauseam have yet to be made in the modern Hasbro era (post the return of ML). Why? Because they will sell you *close* versions until they finally get to the classic version. When will get a non cel-shaded Morph? I was happy to have that first Colossus at the time because it was, finally, a Colossus. When the classic version came out, I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Look how many Storms we got before the GSXM 1 target two-pack - ridiculous.

And of course it was a two-pack, so you had to buy two figures with no BAF part, so margins are better. Same goes for the retro-carded figures - they are great packages, but easy to pick and choose because there's no BAF sales driver (and the themes are generally all over the place, even within a specific line). I didnt buy Hercules or Falcon non-classic costume figs - which I would've if they were in a wave with a BAF (most likely a doomed concept anyway).

I like Paul Harding's work, he's really talented, but some of his sculpts are too goofy - I'd prefer neutral expressions unless it's the Nth time we're geting the character. While the new paint app tech has great potential, too many characters look like they have lipstick on, instead of natural lip color, or comic accurate lip-color - but this is relatively new business and I hope they tweak as time goes on.

Pricing is a combination of factors. They are inevitable and I don't want to piss and moan about them, but I suspect Disney needs to recognize their licensing fees and put demands are too costly for Hasbro to maintain margins as other fixed costs rise.

Disney doesn't seem interested in making mass market toys themselves and there are really no other viable options besides Hasbro, so they need to recalibrate - or else it goes away. When you look at lines like Power Rangers or GI Joe, you see what no royalties get you in a Hasbro figure - more new sculpts, more accessories, etc.

The Marvel team has to spend a significant part of their sculpting budget on all-new sculpts for movie lines that don't sell. This must be take away from the comic budget, which leads to frankensteining with minimal new parts. I'm guessing Hasbro is contractually compelled to do a line for every film, but some of these recent films have such limited toy appeal Hasbro must've known they were doomed from the start, yet significant resources are directed into them. Then there are charactesr that Marvel has plans for in films that the public (and Hasbro) aren't even aware of yet, that get shoved into lines at Marvel's insistence. It's not helpful to Hasbro when, a year after the figure has been clearanced, we learn they're coming to the MCU.

And it's not just Marvel - the last Star Wars negotiation took forever and caused a huge disruption to the line. People pile on Hasbro (sometimes rightfully, sometimes wrongly) but some of the blame comes from outside the company.

eh, just because you don't complete a team immediately and they give you versions of missing characters in other looks from there 60 year history instead doesn't mean it's a place-holder.... just means they want to drag it out and hope you don't just simply buy the team and quit buying anything else after.

the oddest one on that list was Mohawk storm... she'd been requested quite often leading up to it. Just because people didn't get white suit jim lee first does it mean she was a place holder

[christianpyro]

Gummy joints are the issue for me. It's not always an issue, just with certain figures, but it drives me nuts! In the past there have been gummy knees and elbows, but nowadays it's gummy bicep swivels. Gummy bicep swivels result in breakage when moving a tight shoulder in/out.

I've always been able to give Marvel Legends to my kids, they are plenty durable. But not with gummy biceps. Unless you articulate it and hold the bicep close to the swivel, you could leverage it and tear it right off. I've sold off a few good figures, like the recent Sandman, because I just don't trust them.

I would like to see more dynamic heads. The Old Man Hawkeye head with flowing hair, or the Toad figure with the long tongue are fantastic. I want to see figures with flow. I'm kind of jealous of some of McFarlanes designs, and especially their capes. Marvel Legends capes are usually pretty boring in comparison.

[DerRabbi]

I mean there's nuance in the "place holder" debate and then there's this ...

[PantherCult]

Yeah... Falcon been done dirty. So disappointed they don't have a real Falcon figure from Hasbro yet. The Toy Biz version was egregious - and Hasbro has ground salt in the wound... The Mr. Fixit wave version I could have lived with as a modern interpretation but not putting the classic costume on the Classic card was insulting and mean.

[september_death]

Eh…he’s someone’s favorite character, and they are different costumes.

[PantherCult]

Eh…he’s someone’s favorite character, and they are different costumes.

He's one of MY favorite characters and putting that different modern costume on the classics card instead of the classic - and by far longest running - costume was a poke in the eye

[Hbhf]

I can see the anger over the Retro card one but the initial release really isn’t really that egregious given it’s what he was wearing for quite a while and it was what was used in a lot of his earlier media appearances and merchandise.

Again this seems like another age/when you started reading problem more than an actual fault.

[DerRabbi]

Just that 2 in a row is pretty blatant.