Marvel Legends Common Design Strengths and Weaknesses

[EnigmaticClarity]

The whole x-men cartoon line to me feels like a placeholder. They know we want these figures without the cel-shading but it won't stop them from gouging on the first purchase.

Odd assertion given that almost all of those figures were already released without cel shading and the cel-shaded versions were repaints, so for the most part that line is anything but placeholders; they're more like re-issues of previously-released figures, which is why I skipped almost all of them. The new sculpts are Cyclops and Morph, but Jubilee, Sinister, Wolverine, Storm, Jean, and Mystique were all mostly repaints with a few new head sculpts tossed in.

In the case of Morph and Cyclops I can't see releasing them first as animated series figures as a cash grab. That's the line they were filling out at the time, and it makes complete sense to also integrate that into comic figures for the future--which they did with those two X-Men #275 three-packs. I assume we'll get a Jim Lee Cyclops without the cel shading eventually, and certainly that one will be a re-buy for many of us who jumped on the animated version because it's SO good.

[fac]

the one thing about the line I dislike the most it's that there's little to no attempt to make the characters match the source material.

Unless you're nit-picking how close they get to the original Marvel art I rarely see them do what you're claiming they almost always do, but it's a daily occurrence for us to have collectors who don't feel like researching their likely art reference complain about how whatever version of the character the team chose doesn't match whatever source material we have in our heads.

I think 95% of the characters are clearly a good match for the design and most deviations are pretty minor. I think for most characters who have had a fairly consistent, but not 100% consistent, look - and that may get only one chance at a figure - doing a bit of a blend of the different looks/designs makes sense. So they pick and choose some features from different sources, or pick a source that is a bit less assigned to a specific era or story. I get it, given the variety of artist interpretations.

But I also think if you are doing 1st appearance Excalibur, then you don't go astray from the look associated with that source material like Excalibur #1's cover, which they did with Kitty's hair style - as much of her look at the time as the uniform colors and design. For characters when we are getting multiple versions based on different eras and runs, they should aim for the look at the time they are representing. 70's/80's Tony Stark needs his perm and should look like the Layton art, while modern Tony Stark should not, so if they give us an unmasked head with armors from those periods, the heads ought to match the periods as well. Another example that gets mentioned alot - my objection with the "negative zone" FF Sue wasn't that it was "ugly" sculpt but more of - why not try to do a Byrne style Sue Storm given the association with that uniform?

Ultimately, I think they are going for a consistent look for the line, which makes some sense to then avoid some era specific hair styles and so on, but I consider that design choice to be a weakness when it means we don't get an accurate representation of the character from a specific time. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen.

I think overall the design choices are good, I think articulation is generally good - to me the most important piece is the ankles, as I can get a decent pose out of just about any of the current figures as long as I can get the feet to balance.

I agree some variety in accessories will help, but at the same time I will note that many people complain about Cap's shield with the effect pieces, so when Habro tries to do something new with an accessory they get criticized. But I'd like some new "magic" effects or "blast" effects.

My main design "weakness" with the line is that it rarely breaks out of the comfort zone of 6" figures, even though representing the Marvel Comic universe means that a few characters need horses, a few characters like Lockjaw and Zabu need a different look, there are 12" major characters that haven't been made, there are a few iconic vehicles and a few locations that could use playsets. To me the line is managed very conservatively in terms of trying something new, which is why my Legends collection is mostly shelves of 6" figures, while almost every other line I have includes pieces that let me world build around the figures just a bit more. Just feel it is missed opportunity.

[Misfit]

the one thing about the line I dislike the most it's that there's little to no attempt to make the characters match the source material.

Unless you're nit-picking how close they get to the original Marvel art I rarely see them do what you're claiming they almost always do, but it's a daily occurrence for us to have collectors who don't feel like researching their likely art reference complain about how whatever version of the character the team chose doesn't match whatever source material we have in our heads. I just assume we'll always do this. Mafex does the best job I've seen at remaining true to whatever their art reference is, yet I still regularly see people complaining about how figure X is inaccurate when it isn't, the person complaining just doesn't realize what the reference is.

I think I've seen almost EVERY Youtube reviewer do this, with AnthonysCustoms doing it the most often. I love his knowledge of action figure mechanics, but I now skim his reviews because I'm done with listening to him constantly complain about pricing or how something doesn't match the art that, in fact, DOES match the art. Sometimes he's right, but usually he isn't. He used to just state it absolutely and be wrong, although over the last few years he's softened that to express that maybe he just doesn't realize what their reference was, presumably because he's had people point out the right reference in his review comments. Which is weird...if he might be wrong, why does he keep saying it and then acknowledging that he might be wrong? Look it up and be sure, or just don't say it at all.

I don't recall Robo or D Amazing doing this much, although I've seen Robo occasionally complain about aesthetic choices that weren't the sculptor's choice but was just them being as accurate as they could to questionable aesthetic choices by the original artist. I think almost every reviewer did this with Mafex Cyclops that had the same high belt and too-short torso on the figure that most of the Capcom art also had that they modelled him after.

I'm not talking about costumes or colors, I'm talking about general proportions, sculpting, faces, etc. Jim Lee era male X-Men with painted lips don't match the source, for example. The cel-shaded animated Spider-Man is way off if we're looking at how that character was built in the show vs how Hasbro chose to present it. And they do it that way because they look for the most cost-effective way to do it. They maximize reuse, while other companies will go above and beyond to match a specific source and it's all in adherence to their "house style," as sculptors have put it. Morph is a perfect example of that approach with the head likeness as it has most of the features of the character, but the realism is magnified. Personally, that's not what I want out of a toy line. He's a character from a cartoon and he should like the character from the cartoon. Beyond that, most of my proportions critiques come down to the shoulders 90% of the time. They're so small and set so low on so many characters and I think it looks terrible. Some people don't see an issue, but back in the day I don't remember hearing many complaints about the ball-hips Toy Biz used and I predict 10 years from now when we're looking back on this era of Legends people will view those shoulders in a similar light.

[vicious7171]

Odd assertion given that almost all of those figures were already released without cel shading and the cel-shaded versions were repaints, so for the most part that line is anything but placeholders; they're more like re-issues of previously-released figures, which is why I skipped almost all of them. The new sculpts are Cyclops and Morph, but Jubilee, Sinister, Wolverine, Storm, Jean, and Mystique were all mostly repaints with a few new head sculpts tossed in.

In the case of Morph and Cyclops I can't see releasing them first as animated series figures as a cash grab. That's the line they were filling out at the time, and it makes complete sense to also integrate that into comic figures for the future--which they did with those two X-Men #275 three-packs. I assume we'll get a Jim Lee Cyclops without the cel shading eventually, and certainly that one will be a re-buy for many of us who jumped on the animated version because it's SO good.

Hmm, yeah you're right. I forgot how many were straight repaints (with some little accessory changes). Lately as I'm buying less I'm starting to get these ML sublines mixed-up nowadays, between Retro, VHS, x-men line or spiderman line (not who is in it but which is repaints and which has new molds). The VHS X-Men line hasn't been the placeholder wave I mistook it for.

I agree with you about the Cyclops. I'm guessing it's him that sent me down this train of thought; completely forgetting that Wolverine, Jubilee, and Storm were even in the VHS line because they're so bland. I'd love that Cyclops in all shades of blue; all those silly MvC2-inspired Easter pastel Cyclops. And it wouldn't kill them to release Mystique with the double-hinged elbows like her render, that box bait-and-switch is criminal.

[spideyboy1111]

The whole x-men cartoon line to me feels like a placeholder. They know we want these figures without the cel-shading but it won't stop them from gouging on the first purchase. Obviously they're not going to do them standard in a normal wave (aside from Mystique, who came out last/late, so you already have investment into the line) and then do the cel shaded premium price releases later. When I think placeholder with Hasbro Legends in particular, I think of the release schedule. If the later release could have come out first (i.e. the sculpt is made) and it would make the earlier release unnecessary, then it's a placeholder. Although placeholder isn't even the best term, it's just Hasbro taking advantage of FOMO and obsessive collecting. Not saying anyone is flawed because they buy into it, because sometimes (rarely) they don't end up making a "better" version and it's the right call. But the fact that they're dicking us around in the first place just to milk us of an extra $25-28+ a pop is the reason why many are tired of buying MLs.

At least different-colored versions aren't so bad. Like I agree with yojoebro, I prefer the gold and red Iron Man. But often times it's just something annoying that we're paying extra for that we don't want just so we can have it ASAP.

I think this, along with poor accessories, are my main cons of MLs. Main Pros would be the head sculpts, the variety of characters, and some of the amazing sculpts and articulation schemes. Lately some figures have fantastic plastic quality, like RYV Spidey. But nothing is really consistent with MLs, which is another con. I'll continue to cherry-pick the best stuff.

honestly i'm not so sure they DO know how big the demand for cel-shading is or isnt... ive honestly seen it be about 50/50 the people against it just are very vocal. I think the bigger complaint with animated lines is actually using animated character designs and not simple repaints of pre-existing figures... the cel shading thing just needs to be a "either do it, or don't" don't do some with it and some without it, just be consistent.

[vicious7171]

honestly i'm not so sure they DO know how big the demand for cel-shading is or isnt... ive honestly seen it be about 50/50 the people against it just are very vocal. I think the bigger complaint with animated lines is actually using animated character designs and not simple repaints of pre-existing figures... the cel shading thing just needs to be a "either do it, or don't" don't do some with it and some without it, just be consistent.

Yes, good point! With the VHS and Retro lines, Hasbro often struggles to make cohesive sets, and it makes the whole thing look like a waste to anyone who wasn't interested to begin with. Those of us who are similar to me and just want cool toys are left thinking it's a waste of time and overpriced junk when Hasbro doesn't deliver.

[spideyboy1111]

honestly i'm not so sure they DO know how big the demand for cel-shading is or isnt... ive honestly seen it be about 50/50 the people against it just are very vocal. I think the bigger complaint with animated lines is actually using animated character designs and not simple repaints of pre-existing figures... the cel shading thing just needs to be a "either do it, or don't" don't do some with it and some without it, just be consistent.

Yes, good point! With the VHS and Retro lines, Hasbro often struggles to make cohesive sets, and it makes the whole thing look like a waste to anyone who wasn't interested to begin with. Those of us who are similar to me and just want cool toys are left thinking it's a waste of time and overpriced junk when Hasbro doesn't deliver.

this is also why it feels like filler to some... because the way hasbro works is when enough people are "meh" and hopeful for a redeco or dedicated sculpt they eventually get around to it, which would make the current line obsolete when it does happen.

[Scissors]

When I think of the most egregious examples of placeholding, I go back to...

X-Men Juggernaut BAF wave - Versions of Havok and Cable no one asked for. Less popular version of Kitty Pryde on an oversized body. Modern Iceman instead of classic.
X-Men Apocalypse BAF wave - Black Magneto? And to a lesser extent, Punk Storm. Classic Storms will come LATER.
X-Men Warlock BAF wave - Version of Colossus no one asked for. To some extent, Polaris too.
Kingpin BAF - Not the classic look with the ascot and purple pants? No problem, the NEXT version will be correct.
Cannonball - No legs? No problem, the NEXT version will have legs.
Siryn - No screaming head? No problem, the NEXT version will have one (heavily implied at least).
Amazing Fantasy Spider-Man - Best Spidey body but not the classic red-and-blue? No problem, the NEXT version will be CLOSER.

[DerRabbi]

X-Men Warlock BAF wave - To some extent, Polaris too.

While I agree whole hardheartedly with your point and have made it repeatedly myself, this is closer to the Polaris I wanted. No interest in big hair GI Joe Polaris. However to further support your point it would have been nice if they spent a few pennies making some Neil Adams like overlays for her arms.

[september_death]

I’d say a lot of those were warranted. They skew more modern than you may want, and the teams they’re on may not be complete, but a lot of them are decent figures.

Cannonball and Siryn though…they really have it out for X-Force.

[Andru]

Yeah, other than Magento, I am happy to have all of these "placeholders"...

[CTVampSlayer]

When I think of the most egregious examples of placeholding, I go back to...

X-Men Juggernaut BAF wave - Versions of Havok and Cable no one asked for. Less popular version of Kitty Pryde on an oversized body. Modern Iceman instead of classic.
X-Men Apocalypse BAF wave - Black Magneto? And to a lesser extent, Punk Storm. Classic Storms will come LATER.
X-Men Warlock BAF wave - Version of Colossus no one asked for. To some extent, Polaris too.
Kingpin BAF - Not the classic look with the ascot and purple pants? No problem, the NEXT version will be correct.
Cannonball - No legs? No problem, the NEXT version will have legs.
Siryn - No screaming head? No problem, the NEXT version will have one (heavily implied at least).
Amazing Fantasy Spider-Man - Best Spidey body but not the classic red-and-blue? No problem, the NEXT version will be CLOSER.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Just because you don't read modern comics doesn't mean no one else does. I'm very grateful for all of those figures. Punk Storm is one of the most popular versions of the character. Such a terrible take.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Yea those ideas about placeholders are indeed weird. Half of the list of "placeholders" were my most wanted versions as well.

Are AF15 Spidey's colors wrong? I can't fully tell, but the suit clearly isn't red and blue as it started appearing with Amazing Spider-Man #1. It's that weird shade of black and blue they used back when they didn't have a full color palette to work with, so similar to the way we go back and forth with whether Storm's outfit is black, white, or gray I can't fully tell what the blue areas of AF15 Spidey are supposed to be, but they're definitely more black than blue, and the colors Hasbro chose are more than OK with me. The spider logo on the back is definitely mis-colored though which is more likely a mistake than any intentional placeholdering.

[Popoman]

Everything I don't like is a placeholder

[Shoretrooper69]

The whole line has had design quirks and weird choices since the very beginning. Hard to say something now is worse than the buttons and ball joints and Affleck DareDevil from days past.

I think it's more of a quantity issue now. Some people have invested so much time and space into Hasbro 6" that it's hard to admit that they're getting burned out on the sheer amount of it. There are some occasional new standouts, sure. But deep down they can't help but feel like what they've purchased this week is the same as what they purchased last week, last month, or last year. More habitual repetition than collecting. Not just Hasbro. A lot of mass retail lines have that nagging cadence of sameness.

And then you have the affiliate marketers who can't take a day off from their LOOK AT THIS and BUY THIS and PREORDER THIS. I've blocked most of the toy shizes and preternias of the world. Hammering people over the head every day to earn a few dollars from a corporate giant? I can do without those people in my life. We used to hang up on telemarketers. Why would I follow and retweet them now?

Maybe take a moment to assess where you are now. Because Hasbro sure as hell isn't going to give you a break if your hobby is doing more to erode your mental health than strengthen it. I'm not that old but it sure does feel like having stuff now feels more exhausting than it did a few years ago. Not to the point of resenting what I have. But I don't want to get to that point, either.