Marvel legends Prices & Future

[fac]

Isn't ML Partner Brands?

Maybe, it was just a clause in a sentence in a news story, and looking at it again it isn't clear if that was products based on IP they licensed (like SW and Marvel) or revenue from their own licensing of their brands.

"Despite strong growth in Wizards of the Coast and Digital Gaming, Hasbro Pulse, and our licensing business, our Consumer Products business underperformed in the fourth quarter against the backdrop of a challenging holiday consumer environment," said Chris Cocks, Hasbro chief executive officer.

[Nebraska]

I work in plastic manufacturing and my company has been negotiating new plastic prices since our contract expires this year. I'm telling you now, unless Hasbro and other companies absorb some of the inflated cost, expect to pay more OR see a loss in value.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[KnightDamien]

I work in plastic manufacturing and my company has been negotiating new plastic prices since our contract expires this year. I'm telling you now, unless Hasbro and other companies absorb some of the inflated cost, expect to pay more OR see a loss in value.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Yessir.

I work with materials that are heavily based on shipping from China and oil-based manufacturing (just like plastics) and I can confirm that in another year or two people are going to be REALLY unhappy in this hobby even among those currently blowing everyone else off as 'the poors' for being upset about prices.

It's why I'm already trying to taper way down on the amount and type of things I collect, because I just know even the type of collecting I do right now is not going to feasible in another year or so.

[Shoretrooper69]

There's definitely the option to go 100% comic-based on 6" Legends waves and shift MCU/D+ and Gamerverse to a 1:18 format. Disney secrecy makes it harder for Hasbro to make accurate figures for immediate tie-in. So let the 4" figure absorb the concept art penalty, see how the movie performs and what people seem to want out of it, and then do 6" Legends releases of the final designs later down the road. Maybe more box sets than solo releases.

Another option is to start skipping retail for your C and D list characters and do a DCUC style direct to consumer subscription through Pulse. Six month schedules instead of 12. More niche themes like All Winners Squad (Spirit of '76, Toro, Whizzer, Miss America, Blonde Phantom, Angel; BAF: Destroyer [Roger Aubrey]) or X-Statix (Dead Girl, Gone Girl, Phatty, Mister Sensitive, Zeitgeist, Vivisector; BAF: Rosa Lemper)

I'd probably end compartmentalizing waves, too. Really no reason to have just X-Men or just Spider-Man anymore. Throw a Wolverine and an Iron Man into the same wave and then pick four more candy colored doofuses to sell with them. Another solid turd so that Anthony can finally stop fetishizing Darwin.

[effigy]

Slowly moving to MAFEX for all main heroes & villains in my collection, only using ML for side / C-list characters.

Buying 2 MSRP Legends last year after tax & shipping costed pretty much the same as buying each of my recent MAFEX figures (thanks to the weak Yen). I get SO much more enjoyment out of the MAFEX offerings.

Where do you buy them? I really only see them at bbts and obviously no savings there.

[Bashbash99]

First and foremost would like to express sympathy for the 1000 Hasbro employees who are losing their jobs. I'm sure its pretty rough on the remaining employees as well, when what nearly 1/7 of your coworkers are cut.

as to what this portends for the ML line, dunno but i would guess more price increases and cutting corners wherever possible. I'm not sure the model of producing 150+ figures a year will necessarily work going forward, and i have some doubts about comic BAF waves that i've expressed before.

I do think mcu BAF waves are relatively safe. i think we will continue to see more comic figs released as exclusives, retro cards, or in sets rather than in BAF waves, particularly as more and more comic fig collectors shift to cherry picking and forgo completing BAFs for various reasons.

Of course we don't know all the details yet but based on all the folks talking about being more selective in their purchases, along with the popularity of the mcu decreasing at least slightly, it is not difficult to imagine that ML revenue was down in 2022 relative to previous years.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Slowly moving to MAFEX for all main heroes & villains in my collection, only using ML for side / C-list characters.

Buying 2 MSRP Legends last year after tax & shipping costed pretty much the same as buying each of my recent MAFEX figures (thanks to the weak Yen). I get SO much more enjoyment out of the MAFEX offerings.

Where do you buy them? I really only see them at bbts and obviously no savings there.

Amazon Japan, HobbyLink Japan, AmiAmi, Hobby Search Japan, Nin-Nin-Game, Plaza Japan, Hobby-Genki, Luna Park, or directly from Medicom (the company that makes the Mafex line). MSRP in Japan is usually around $60 to $80, and shipping is usually $10 to $20 so I typically get Mafex from Japan for around $70 to $80. The BBTS standard price now is $104.99, so saving $20 to $40 is worth it. I usually only order from BBTS if I originally didn't want a release but then later decided I did want it after the Japanese retailers have sold out.

Some Japanese retailers have terrible international shipping rates from time to time, so be sure the shipping is cheap before you order.

[Comedian]

This week at BBTS I had the retro 6” x-men wave hit, the x-men 60th 5-pack, the blob and all the 3.75” retro figures. On top of that some vintage Star Wars including the Endor bunker and at-st. 3 of The black series comic figures, several return of the Jedi black series figures on the vintage card and from Neca 3 predators and 2 universal monsters. A huge amount of this was due in May and beyond.

For the first time, I am going to have to let a huge amount of this go. I’m not looking for sympathy, I’m just giving one collector’s situation whom has never had to pass on stuff. I have not preordered anything else from the Marvel comics figures because I’m comfortable with my collection at its present size.

This was too much at once and choices are being made now. All these companies fighting over the few extra dollars we have and they just keep getting higher. I know I’m not unique here and I’m sure many are in the same boat.

[fac]

as to what this portends for the ML line, dunno but i would guess more price increases and cutting corners wherever possible. I'm not sure the model of producing 150+ figures a year will necessarily work going forward, and i have some doubts about comic BAF waves that i've expressed before.

Of course we don't know all the details yet but based on all the folks talking about being more selective in their purchases, along with the popularity of the mcu decreasing at least slightly, it is not difficult to imagine that ML revenue was down in 2022 relative to previous years.

Laying off 1,000 employees has to include a lot of back-office staff as well as sundowning entire lines. Cutting back-office staff would reduce the overhead that has to be calculated for in the pricing on all lines and I have to think that was becoming a drag in terms of competitive pricing. It usually makes more sense to cull an entire underperforming line than reduce the staff on every line. It may not impact Legends too much if the brand is still popular (as it appears to be) and there is reason to believe it will continue to be with new media supporting it for the next 5 years at least (and Hasbro needs to make licensing payments regardless if they sell anything I suspect). Brands that were lower profile, lower profit or may have less to draw from going forward would be most at risk I would think.

I'd love to know the breakdown between the comic and MCU lines in terms of retail sales. I would think everyone - Hasbro sales, retail buyers, and collectors - would benefit if they disentangled the comic and MCU lines so no mixed waves.

ML revenue overall had to be down comparing Galactus last year and the failure of the Hellcharger this year - that's a $12 million drop just from those two HasLabs. (Remember when folks said losing the Hellcharger was a drop in the bucket? $12 million in revenue covers a lot of staff hours...) Hard to know if overall wave orders were down. (They likely keep the HasLabs in its own internal bucket and away from the regular wave sales.)

[H-bird]

I'd love to know the breakdown between the comic and MCU lines in terms of retail sales. I would think everyone - Hasbro sales, retail buyers, and collectors - would benefit if they disentangled the comic and MCU lines so no mixed waves.

I do wonder how this would work out in terms of how much dedicated tooling is required for MCU figures. The comic figures that make it into MCU BAF waves tend to be the most minimal of them all - Sleepwalker and D’Spayre, the Hatut Zeraze and Black Panther. I think we’ll see a lot more straight rereleases/repaints of existing figures to make MCU waves cost out if they disentangle them - see the Khonshu wave, with several rereleases with new heads only and a statue masquerading as a figure. That might still be preferable for folks, but I do think the odd comic figure helps balance out all the new tooling that goes into MCU figures.

[fac]

I feel like that the balancing within a wvae has more to do with Hasbro's internal accounting/cost tracking, but if there are only 5 figures to be made for a MCU wave that are related to the media, they are sculpting those regardless - the only reason to add two more figures is to fulfill the BAF model concept of an 8 figure case with 6 or 7 unique figures. Why not just make those five figures with no BAF - there is still a cost associated with the bare bones releases they add in and the BAF parts, and given they now sell by the figure more than mixed cases, I wonder how much the cheaper comic figures really balance things out anymore. This is where them being beholden to a 6-7 figure wave to include the BAF pieces seems restrictive, when that case breakdown model doesn't seem to be what retailers want anymore. If I'm Target, do I really buy less cases of the next MCU wave if it has only 5 distinct figures - I might even be happier to get a better mix if the case had some figures shortpacked.

Having said all that - they could always supplement the MCU waves with some MCU re-releases, like they did with the BP re-release wave, which would be just as cheap I would think as doing some bare-bones comic figures (maybe not given the paint apps).

[Ru_1977]

I feel like that the balancing within a wvae has more to do with Hasbro's internal accounting/cost tracking, but if there are only 5 figures to be made for a MCU wave that are related to the media, they are sculpting those regardless - the only reason to add two more figures is to fulfill the BAF model concept of an 8 figure case with 6 or 7 unique figures. Why not just make those five figures with no BAF - there is still a cost associated with the bare bones releases they add in and the BAF parts, and given they now sell by the figure more than mixed cases, I wonder how much the cheaper comic figures really balance things out anymore. This is where them being beholden to a 6-7 figure wave to include the BAF pieces seems restrictive, when that case breakdown model doesn't seem to be what retailers want anymore. If I'm Target, do I really buy less cases of the next MCU wave if it has only 5 distinct figures - I might even be happier to get a better mix if the case had some figures shortpacked.

Having said all that - they could always supplement the MCU waves with some MCU re-releases, like they did with the BP re-release wave, which would be just as cheap I would think as doing some bare-bones comic figures (maybe not given the paint apps).

I've been banging this drum in the MCU threads for years now. Please take a mallet.

[100ptsofarticulation]

Cost cutting and price increases always works.

This is how they'll do it. You're almost guaranteed to purchase something with quality control issues and you may have to buy that same thing 3-4 times to get one solid figure.

Brilliant!

[TheSameIdiot]

ML revenue overall had to be down comparing Galactus last year and the failure of the Hellcharger this year - that's a $12 million drop just from those two HasLabs. (Remember when folks said losing the Hellcharger was a drop in the bucket? $12 million in revenue covers a lot of staff hours...) Hard to know if overall wave orders were down. (They likely keep the HasLabs in its own internal bucket and away from the regular wave sales.)

If I know anything about corporations, those profits weren't going to fund employee salaries.

[christianpyro]

I wonder how the plastic free packaging has affected these numbers so far? It was announced and we started seeing some of it late last year, but only a few waves were affected. So 2023 will be more telling. Despite Hasbro's claims, It was not entirely environmentally minded. It was mostly a cost cutting move. Common sense knows that this would result in a reduction in sales (some people just won't buy these), but I think they intended the savings to offset this. I think it was the wrong move myself.

Plastic Free packaging doesn't affect me for the most part, a little, but not much. I order 95% of what I buy online, so it's no different. I don't view the product in person before I buy anyway. But it does affect my kids a lot. I notice they aren't even remotely interested in looking at those toys, but they stare at and admire the toys they can see. Those are the toys that end up on their wish lists. Collector sales are big, but I think retail sales are much bigger.

I won't buy a second copy to keep in box, or just in case, if I can't see it. Also I was walking through Target the other night and saw the McFarlane Avatar figures. There were some that I had no intention of buying, but seeing them in person, they were impressive and I purchased them. Hasbro has zero chance of that kind of sale with their packaging. There are two chances of a sale: online pics, and seeing the item in hand. With Hasbro their is just the one chance: pictures. Jakks Pacific has new Movie Mario figures coming out, and I told myself that I will wait until I see them in hand to decide, Hasbro would never get that opportunity!

I have a feeling this will hurt more than Hasbro planned. Plastic free packaging mostly affects retail, and not online purchases (except for those who collect carded of course). But retail is the big business. Their large orders are what fund everything else. If retail can't move product, they won't order more, and that halts everything.

Like I said, plastic free doesn't affect me too much, but it will inadvertently. As it affect sales, growth, and the health of the line.