2023 Retro Spider-Man Wave

[panther10]

There's still plenty of good Spidey bad guys left to make yet, and these are only the not-necessarily-BAF-sized ones!

I, for one, won't feel my collection is complete without the Enforcers. Or any of the Ditko villains, really. And what's taking Hasbro so long to give us a Gibbon on the Beast bod? Finally announcing him would go a long ways towards taking the bad taste this wave gave me out of my mouth.

Okay a few things about this list

1) I’m fairly certain Titania is mostly a hulk and she hulk villain

2) Where is Vermin, Big Wheel, Judas Traveller, Armada, Joystick, Aura , Unicorn and Scrier?

3) didn’t we technically get a Blackie Drago head with the Vulture already?


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[effigy]

(I imagine the team were probably anticipating the surprise of this being a carded wave to bring a really positive reaction.

Absolutely no way in hell did they think that. They knew what they were doing. 'We're not showing all the accessories today' Now we know that's because there hardly ARE any accessories and they weren't looking to highlight that. They were very careful never to call it a BaF wave but also not say that it wasn't one either. They knew people were going to be furious, and I don't think any of this is their fault. Hasbro management raised prices for the fans to 'cover the increase in costs', but they apparently did not raise the Legends' teams' budgets to reflect those raised costs. Which is ridiculous. If the amount they are spending isn't going up then why are they raising prices?

I think not mentioning accessories is going to be wise for almost every release for the foreseeable future, to be honest, from their point of view.
We all know they can only play with the budgets available to them and those will be increasingly limited despite the team we 'know's probable desire; so this is what it is now, and only a change of leadership would alter that. Those accessories are consistently likely to be limited now, especially if they need a paint application, so that only generates criticism, naturally. That's likely why they didn't even mention them for figures like Black Widow either, who sounds loaded, because she'll highlight deficits elsewhere. That 'sleight of hand' wasn't unique to this wave, it's a new universal norm, likely.
We know the accessory situation's gonna be a big disappointment going forward, they know the same, if you're trying to sell the toys: Best to gloss over them.

But I think they've genuinely, plausibly been led, by 'fans', to believe 'retro carded' figures are the most beloved releases recently, and led to believe 'fans' think plastic free packaging is "killing the line"... And I believe they've just overlooked the nuance that the choice of figures on those cardbacks still needs to appeal more to the type of collector that loves that packaging than this wave did, and that's the main stumble here.

I'd personally say excluding BAF parts has *always* been a financial choice, even when there wasn't as much direction to fleece as of late. They could have been in any retro packaged wave from the start (especially as retro has often been a method to re-release very slight repaints with a minimal degree of new tooling, so was never more expensive to produce than a wave with a BAF)- they just don't seem to have ever wanted to include a BAF when they've confidence the figures don't need one to sell the wave-
And I don't blame them because they're often only begrudgingly appreciated, anyway, and they're regularly disliked for doing what they're intended to do: making you buy a lot more than you'd choose to otherwise. When economic circumstances are as they are, when people are being more picky, I don't blame them for likely recognising BAFs aren't currently the selling point they once were, and thinking the solution to the issues of masses of excess stock hanging around is to move focus from them and towards appeasing the "I want to see my figure in the package" crowd. If you're struggling to sell to those that buy single figures, try to win back those that buy multiples.

And I personally think this wave just shows an overconfidence in the cardback selling itself, and too much faith in the anti-plastic-free crowd, neglecting the importance of the selection within retro style packages.

And I'd say much of what online posters've been telling marketing is that this was a really savvy choice of experiment...
So many in the last year or more have been vociferously praising retro card backs (buying two- one to open, one to keep as is), and those figures have legitimately continued to be amongst some of the very, very few that still sell out reasonably quickly and still appreciate on the aftermarket- and so, so many in the last year have been consistently decrying plastic-free packaging- and there's even more legitimacy, and economic, practical relevance now to those complaining they need to buy figures they don't want when they'd prefer to buy a deluxe than get BAF parts... There's lots of surface-level evidence this is what the crowd supposedly wanted.
But listening to the crowd can get you Snakes on a Plane, obviously.

Basically: I can absolutely, absolutely see how they might have thought they were giving people EXACTLY what they wanted this time, within their means, and could be surprised by the backlash.
And again: If this had been a selection of 'classic's, like previous Spidey retro waves, I honestly don't think there'd be any higher level of griping than normal, either.

Really good post and you make a lot of great points.

My only counter to that is, if they thought putting these on retro cards was a selling point and something we wanted, I really think they wouldn’t have hidden this information from us during the stream. They probably would have showed off at least some of the packaging. Even if they wanted to hide the lack of accessories, they could cherry pick it a little. Only show the Rose in package (the only figure well stocked with accessories), for instance. Maybe tease ‘the newer characters will be on a new design that you will see when they go up’ since all the new ones have shit accessories. And if they didn’t want to show the card they could have at least said ‘this will be a retro wave’. If they think that’s a selling point they would tell us. Hiding that information makes me think they knew exactly how we were going to take it.

[Valenzze]

Warning! FRAT! :

There's still plenty of good Spidey bad guys left to make yet, and these are only the not-necessarily-BAF-sized ones!

I, for one, won't feel my collection is complete without the Enforcers. Or any of the Ditko villains, really. And what's taking Hasbro so long to give us a Gibbon on the Beast bod? Finally announcing him would go a long ways towards taking the bad taste this wave gave me out of my mouth.

Okay a few things about this list

1) I’m fairly certain Titania is mostly a hulk and she hulk villain

2) Where is Vermin, Big Wheel, Judas Traveller, Armada, Joystick, Aura , Unicorn and Scrier?

3) didn’t we technically get a Blackie Drago head with the Vulture already?


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• 1. Titania's fought Spider-Man multiple times. Her first couple battles after Secret Wars ended were with him in his comics.

• 2. Vermin is on the bottom of the first image. Unicorn is an Iron Man villain Spider fought once in the Bronze Age. Don't thunk I'd count him as a "Spider-Man villain." The others you mention are as obscure as some on this image list, so yeah, they belong here too.

• 3. We got a head with the covering in the style when Blackie Drago wore it, but it was old man Toomes' face. Plus Drago is a lot bulkier than the skinny/old man body so he could and should be re-done as a separate figure.

[JPC]

If we are going to be going modern retro with cardbacks, I would not be opposed to an updated look this size, like Hasbro already did in the UK a few years ago:



Night Monkey!

Forgot about these, but they certainly waste less packaging and show off the product.

[panther10]

Warning! FRAT! :

There's still plenty of good Spidey bad guys left to make yet, and these are only the not-necessarily-BAF-sized ones!

I, for one, won't feel my collection is complete without the Enforcers. Or any of the Ditko villains, really. And what's taking Hasbro so long to give us a Gibbon on the Beast bod? Finally announcing him would go a long ways towards taking the bad taste this wave gave me out of my mouth.

Okay a few things about this list

1) I’m fairly certain Titania is mostly a hulk and she hulk villain

2) Where is Vermin, Big Wheel, Judas Traveller, Armada, Joystick, Aura , Unicorn and Scrier?

3) didn’t we technically get a Blackie Drago head with the Vulture already?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

• 1. Titania's fought Spider-Man multiple times. Her first couple battles after Secret Wars ended were with him in his comics.

• 2. Vermin is on the bottom of the first image. Unicorn is an Iron Man villain Spider fought once in the Bronze Age. Don't thunk I'd count him as a "Spider-Man villain." The others you mention are as obscure as some on this image list, so yeah, they belong here too.

• 3. We got a head with the covering in the style when Blackie Drago wore it, but it was old man Toomes' face. Plus Drago is a lot bulkier than the skinny/old man body so he could and should be re-done as a separate figure.

I’m afraid I don’t follow? Lol


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[Aleks]

At this point we just need a new classic Vulture figure. With sculpted details on his costume.

[Ninjak]

With Marvel Legends I'm pretty much down to picking up any classic comic based villains they want to give us. Especially classic Spider-Man villains.

Recently I actually went through every issue of Amazing Spider-Man from issue #1 through #283 and the first 50 issues or so of Peter Parker The Spectacular Spider-Man and I made a list of almost every villain that we don't currently have as a Marvel Legend. (I left off characters that have been announced like Tarantula and The Rose, etc.) It's more than I thought there would be. I did not include villains from Marvel Team-Up because most of those weren't mainly from Spidey's rogues gallery.

Amazing Spider-Man:

The Tinkerer
The Living Brain
The Big Man
The Enforcers
Ring Master and The Circus of Crime
Spider Slayer
Crime Master
The Looter
A Guy Named Joe
Professor Stromm
Man Mountain Marko
The Kangaroo
The Schemer
The Gibbon
The Smasher
The Disrupter
Mindworm
The Grizzly
Cyclone
Mirage
Stegron
Will-O’-The-Wisp
Doctor Faustus
Photon
The Rocket Racer
The Hitman
The Big Wheel
White Dragon
Light Master
Madam Web
Ramrod
Red Ghost and the Super Apes
Fool Killer
The Black Fox
Slyde
Boomerang (classic)
Titania

PPTSM:
Brother Power and Sister Sun
Hate Monger
Hypno Hustler
The Masked Marauder
Carrion
The Iguana
Swarm
The Schizoid Man
Belladonna
The Smuggler
Nitro
Killer Shriek
The Ringer
Gold Bug
The Spot

[kantboy2]

At this point we just need a new classic Vulture figure. With sculpted details on his costume.

In this new era of Legends that would be like the entire tooling budget for a wave.

You could do a Vulture II on the Falcon body with a new head, neck overlay and new feet.

I doubt they'll sculpt out the details for the character at this point in the line.

[StuartGreen83]

I will get Rose eventually, but he looks unfinished and the head looks small. I'll also get Tarantula eventually, but I hate that most of the figures have no accessories. Also, most of the figures look generic and simplistic with the red-and-black suits. I'm also not a fan of what Marvel has done to Ben Reilly, or to the Spider-Man comics in general since "One More Day" retconned the marriage. I was also hoping that Hasbro would've had some more A-list characters for the wave and to actually have a FULL Retro wave. The new non-Retro Toy Biz packaging looks ugly and generic. I am still hoping we'll see characters like Chameleon, classic Vulture with more detail on his costume and better/more detailed wings, and some kind of Deluxe release Doc Ock (a sold-separately green-and-orange suit or his white Armani suit) with bendable wire tentacles on the Retro packaging. Classic villains like Boomerang, the Beetle and Jack O'Lantern would also look cool on the Retro Toy Biz box art. Then again, I'm also hoping for a comic-accurate Hobgoblin that actually looks like the comics, has multiple alternate heads (maybe as a Deluxe to justify the price), and a new Glider that actually fits the figure's feet and a new classic Green Goblin with a better mask and "bat-wing" Goblin Glider accessory. A classic first appearance Mary Jane would be cool. As for as Spider-Men, I'm hoping for Octo-Spidey, "Spider-Man Unlimited" animated series suit, Spider-Lizard, Spider-Hulk, Mayday Parker's Spider-Girl, and a boxed set of the Slingers.

[TFitz]

Just realizing that the Walgreens Sentry head with the dumb whippy hair would work for a nice Will O' The Wisp head with kickass whippy hair.

Will O The Wisp Custom Representation Beautifully Rendered with love in Digital Form with no imperfections or blemishes.jpg

Aaand just bought a Sentry just to do this. I need Wispy, and he should be super-easy to do.

[supermonkey]

Neither the characters nor their designs are “retro”. Nor the cardback design.

This is a dumbs. I’ll get Rose and call it a day.

Very weird choices here.

[sdooner]

These are the retro figures (and a few other figures) that would make me happiest:

Man-Wolf (Most Glaring Modern Omission)
Tinkerer (oldest undone villain)
Living Brain (Helps Complete a Team)
Spider-Slayer(Original Jameson Version)
Spider-Slayer (BAF-large)

Enforcers:
Fancy Dan
Ox
Montana

Crime Master
The Big Man
Man Mountain Marko

Princess Python (also helps complete Serpent Squad)
Ringmaster
Clown
Bruto
Live Wire
The Flying Gambonos
The Human Cannonball

Stegron (BAF)
Jack O’Lantern
Will-O-The-Wisp
Basilisk
Swarm
Scarecrow
Titania (Helps Complete Masters of Evil!)
Killer Shrike
Fool Killer
Madame Web (Animated version is fine for me—BAF)
Man-Spider (BAF)
Spot (Deluxe Figure with lots of effects)
The Griffin (From Marvel Team-Up—BAF)
Carrion

Overdrive (Completes a team)

Female Doc Ock from Into the Spider-Verse
Lady Octopus

Army Builders w/ multiple heads:
Generic Gangsters
Escaped Convicts
Hoods/Henchmen (to make Amazing Fantasy 15 cover)


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[TFitz]

So I just watched a review for Tarantula.

Who's been in my Top 10.

And cancelled my pre-order.

He's just not worth it. The pinned body with the black pins on the inside of the red arms. Zero accessories. I can't reward Hasbro for this. I have no doubt he will be on sale one day. My only pre-order on this wave is now Elektra DD, as she is all-new tooling.

[TinkerersAssistant02]

So I just watched a review for Tarantula.

Who's been in my Top 10.

And cancelled my pre-order.

He's just not worth it. The pinned body with the black pins on the inside of the red arms. Zero accessories. I can't reward Hasbro for this. I have no doubt he will be on sale one day. My only pre-order on this wave is now Elektra DD, as she is all-new tooling.

I don't think I'll fold on this one, even though it is such minimal effort, which is definitely disappointing. The classic Spidey corner is my biggest weakness in Legends. I even managed to convince myself that Molten Man & Silvermane from the 5-pack aren't so bad! I'll probably do the same with Tarantula & Rose.

[Aleks]

So I just watched a review for Tarantula.

Who's been in my Top 10.

And cancelled my pre-order.

He's just not worth it. The pinned body with the black pins on the inside of the red arms. Zero accessories. I can't reward Hasbro for this. I have no doubt he will be on sale one day. My only pre-order on this wave is now Elektra DD, as she is all-new tooling.

That new pinless Sunfire body they used on whatever that yellow flash guy from Squadron Supreme Whizzer would look great on Tarantula or new Ant Man...to bad they have already released them. They couldn't have done otherwise, could they?