CyberFrog Figures

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Jead
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:58 pm

I like cyberfrog's design and these figures look cool, but I'll never buy them. I'd be able to stomach it if it was just some conservative weirdo with a horrible personality, but his damage to the comic industry and adamant defense of Dave Sim are the nail in the coffin for me.

I'm always begging for indie comics action figures, but not like this.
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os189
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:23 am

What I find so interesting is how people's terminology has changed over the years.

When I was a kid, if there was a guy that was rude and bombastic and egotistical, we'd just say "Man, that guy is a real a-hole. I don't like him." And I'd avoid the guy and be done with it.

Now people would call him "a piece of shit human" and much worse, and wish poverty on him and his children and all that.

I try to reserve the superlatives like "piece of shit" for the real scumbags of the world, that are actually responsible for murder, death, suffering, and all of that horrible stuff....not just some clown on twitter.

But like I said before, we all draw the line in the sand somewhere and it's an individual choice.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:33 am

Ash Talon wrote:
TheRealSmallville wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 2:28 pm
It's political, like everything these days. Van Sciver is a right-winger, who disagrees with the left. If you're progressive, he's a POS. If you're conservative, he's not. That about sums it up.
I do believe in being able to separate the person from their art or product. If we knew the dirty secrets of all kinds of artists/musicians/actors/manufacturers, we'd probably not want to deal with a vast number of them. So some separation is needed. And not everyone needs to lose their livelihood because a mob of people don't agree with their opinions.

But saying Van Sciver has controversy around him is only because he's a conservative is being really reductive. He's an arrogant ass who has little respect for others. For some reason, people think that kind of attitude should be championed and supported. There does seem to be a trend in certain conservative circles to embrace and worship prick personalities, so maybe you're partially correct about it being a conservative issue.
Well, I don't mean to be reductive about it, I was mostly trying to answer his question short & sweet. I put EVS in the same camp as the "Make America Great Again" folks, which mostly ends up meaning "Make America White, Straight, and Male Dominated Again". I'm more middle of the aisle when it comes to my politics, but the MAGA people are some of the worst I've come across in a long time. He's very much in that camp, and since MAGA is a conservative group I call him a conservative.

Note: I'm not saying all Republicans are MAGA scumbags; just that all MAGA scumbags happen to be Republican conservatives.


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Longbowhunter
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:40 am

Well this thread is going to get deleted soon,so F*** it. EVS and everyone associated with Comicsgate are terrorists. They’ve threatened peoples lives and careers,they’ve doxxed and harassed numerous women within the comics industry,they’ve made horrible sexist and racist comments countless times and then hid behind “its just a joke bro”. These people are despicable modern-day online nazi trolls and anyone who would willingly give them a dime is part of the problem.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:49 am

What has EVS said that deserves all this vitriol? Please post links.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:28 am

Longbowhunter wrote:Well this thread is going to get deleted soon,so F*** it. EVS and everyone associated with Comicsgate are terrorists. They’ve threatened peoples lives and careers,they’ve doxxed and harassed numerous women within the comics industry,they’ve made horrible sexist and racist comments countless times and then hid behind “its just a joke bro”. These people are despicable modern-day online nazi trolls and anyone who would willingly give them a dime is part of the problem.
I guess I'm part of the problem because I pay money for things I enjoy...I guess I missed the terroristic notions of Cyber Frog or his Green Lantern art ImageImageImageImageImage Ah, well. What's the internet without a little hyperbole?

Also...terrorists? C'mon. Assholes, racists, homophobes, yes. But "terrorists"? Have you ever lost someone to a terrorist act? If you had, you probably wouldn't put internet trolls on the same level as terrorists. Some of us have experienced worse things than EVS posting from his computer.


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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:51 am

For those who were more interested in the figures, apparently the funding campaign will launch on July 4th. Will be interesting to see if the wide-ranging opinions on the creator hinder the campaign or inadvertently propel it much like the "Parental Advisory" stickers on CD's used to. I do think the strong opinions of him ends up as free publicity for him and he's aware of that.

The prototypes don't reflect this but apparently the ankles are being replaced with rockers rather than just a hinge. I think, as a few before had mentioned, a ball joint is definitely necessary to make them able to pose like an actual frog might. There was also some mention of a "dissolved human hive chamber" stand, so I guess that's what the bees/wasps do to humans. That almost seems like an opening to involve "slime" like Masters of the Universe/Ghostbusters/TMNT back in the 80s/90s. Though I don't know if anyone wants to pour slime over their $40 figures.

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os189
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:11 am

Longbowhunter wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:40 am
Well this thread is going to get deleted soon,so F*** it.
Well, this is probably the most logical and least hyperbolic thing you've said so far.
TheRealSmallville wrote: Also...terrorists? C'mon. Assholes, racists, homophobes, yes. But "terrorists"? Have you ever lost someone to a terrorist act? If you had, you probably wouldn't put internet trolls on the same level as terrorists. Some of us have experienced worse things than EVS posting from his computer.
Stop using so much fair and balanced common sense or you're gonna get kicked off the internet.

This thread has (to use an intentional pun) leapfrogged well beyond the boundaries of not discussing politics.

It's supposed to be about toys.

I'm 43. When I was a kid, we were told not to ever bring up politics and religion at parties. Keep it light and breezy....the weather, sports, movies. And if by chance you met someone who disagreed with you politically, you simply said "Oh, well, I guess we disagree. Anyway, how bout those Mets?"

Personal politics used to be none of anyone's goddamn business and oh how I wish for those days to return. But seeing as how more people find "entertainment" in politics than actual entertainment, it's never going away.

I try to make it a point not to discuss my own beliefs expect for when it comes to TOYS. Then I'm the first one to admit I can become a raging, ranting lunatic when I really hate a toy. Am I an "asshole" and a "terrorist" cause I don't like the same toys as you? I have a bad feeling we're not too far from those days. (I try to balance it out by heaping praise on toys I DO love, but nobody likes that...they just latch on to the negative comments.)

I've read this entire thread and the only "proof" of actual "HATE" I've seen have been from the people that hate Van Sciver. Interesting how you're so against "hate" as a concept but you seem to revel in hating anyone that doesn't share your values.

Anyway. I've said my piece and I honestly fear saying anything else cause the last thing I want is this angry mob frothing at the mouth coming after ME, despite the fact that I've never given Va Sciver a dime in my entire life.

Really for the best that this thread is deleted......unless? Is is even POSSIBLE we can talk about JUST the toys without using terms like "piece of shit human" and "terrorist" to describe........a comic book artist??

(Like I said in my first post....frogs creep me out so I'm not even interested in Cyberfrog. But there must be some people out there that do...)
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:45 pm

Ethan Van Sciver has given a platform to unambiguous white nationalists like Vox Day on his YouTube channel. Like, it's not a stretch to call him a shitty person. He's not a wrestling heel or a troll or a provocateur or a colorful personality. He's at the very least sympathetic to white nationalist ideologies. He defended Dave Sim's grooming of a 14-year old girl. He's a leader in groups like Comicsgate that run harassment campaigns against people of color and LGBTQ people, campaigns that involve doxxing and threats of violence (which, yes, means that Comicsgate has engaged in activity that fits the legal definition of "terroristic threats"). Even if you want to sideline the political nature of Comicsgate for a second, he's actively toxic to other people within his industry. Why is that worth defending? Why would anyone be more offended by people pointing it out than the behavior itself? And why is it that people who are tired of politics in their hobbies never yell at the actual political group about it? Go complain to Comicsgate that they're too political; it's their ideologies infecting a perfectly good hobby that prompted literally all of this.

See, this is what happens with Comicsgate guys - they spend all their time treating people like shit, and then when people get angry about them, it's seen as unreasonable for us to be angry. I'm not okay with the fact that they're still allowed to be toxic in an industry that's supposed to be welcoming and professional towards everyone. Bad-faith actors don't get a pass with me. And yeah, I get annoyed when I see people defending them on the basis that we shouldn't get political at the political group that's attacking people for political reasons and using our hobbies as a platform to spread political ideologies built on the idea that some people are inherently less than others.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:16 pm

Look, before I personally get called a Nazi and get doxxed and have my own life ruined, I want to stress that I'm only playing devil's advocate here and trying to see two sides to a very ugly story.

Have these people that hate Va Sciver not doxxed him, sent him death threats, tried to ruin his life, tried to make sure he never would get work again? Are they the pure innocent angels and he's the big bad devil?

I the very definition of "terrorism" is a violent act used to instill terror to further a political cause. Is this guy that draws frogs truly a terrorist??

Have any of the guys in "Comicsgate" been treated like shit? Why is that OK? I thought decent human beings were supposed to treat others with respect, not hatred and vengeance. Why not just IGNORE them?

I haven't even read comics in well over 20 years but this was really interesting to me how one guy, a seemingly competent and reliable artist, managed to get under so many people's skins and literally get blacklisted and considered the most hated man in comics.

Back when I was reading comics, Liefeld was the most "hated" guy in comics, and that was mild compared to this. And now some people even seem to LIKE him!

At any rate, I really got stop replying to this thread, as interesting as it is to me, before I get accused of being a "terrorist apologist" or something. I'm just trying to see the big picture. And as a guy on the sidelines, it seems to be there are some really bad actors on both ends of the spectrum. Extremism either direction doesn't seem to end well.

Like anything politically charged in today's current climate, aren't there two sides to every story? And the extremists on both sides resort to the same ugly, dehumanizing behavior?

I don't want any part of EITHER extreme. I just wanna live my life, like what I like, be left alone, be allowed to have my own private opinions. Maybe if ALL the these people didn't spend 24/7 on social media arguing for no good reason, we wouldn't be calling each other repugnant names.

Unless there is actual, legitimate physical HARM done, isn't it just opinions? I believe we should keep those to ourselves, but the modern world insists people broadcast their opinions as fact and that just starts fights. Why not just ignore opinions you don't like??
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:20 pm

(Oh, and I've never heard that about Dave Sim, but I know he was always another controversial individual in the comics industry....but not for that! Bleeech.)

Like the old saying goes, "if you wanna enjoy the sausage, don't watch how it's made."


OK last one I promise......just read the Dave Sim stuff.


Yeeeeeashhhhhh, bleeeauggghh.

No defending that. It was the 80s I guess and things were more lax but jeez this guy has zero self-awareness. (I live in Japan where it's almost "normal" for 30 year old dudes to date 14 years, which is still repulsive, but this one shocked even me. WOW. Glad I was never a Dave Sim fan. He makes John Kricfalusi seem like less of a sleazebag, if possible.

Worst part is, this is just the stuff we know about. I don't even wanna think about all the rock stars, movie directors and stars, authors, and yes, comic book artists that did this shit on the regular for decades. If all the truth ever came out we'd be left with no entertainment at all.

Disgusting, depraved shit.

All right, I really really am outta here now. Please discuss amongst yourselves.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:22 pm

Here's the thing: ultimately, I'm an optimist. I don't accept the idea that our industries are full of terrible people. This is why I don't accept that we should just resign ourselves to others' terrible behavior. I've met too many wonderful people through my hobbies, including creators, to believe that the majority of people in them have skeletons. Because the worst people? It's often right out on the open. Dave Sim was always scummy; the man had an entire philosophy built on misogyny that worked its way into Cerebus (art and the artist: always inseparable). R. Crumb has written autobiographical works about committing sexual assault; his works are loaded with misogyny and racism. And you can't tell me no one at Spümcø knew about John K.; he was living with one of those girls! Another worked there!

These things often happen right out in front of coworkers or colleagues, or at least with the knowledge of those people. And it's the choosing to live comfortably with it that lets it happen. Comedians knew about Cosby for years and it wasn't until Hannibal Buress kept talking about it that anything happened to him. We're sort of veering away from EVS in this, but the simple facts are that Comicsgate is a movement designed to hurt vulnerable people, and talking about it without mentioning EVS is like pretending Bob Dylan's not a Traveling Wilbury. It's not a covert thing, and there's no devil's advocate to be played. It's a rot on the comics industry and it can't happen to toys, too. I can't form a defense for the nonexistent actions of fictional people who in a rhetorical scenario are just as mean towards the group of bigots as the bigots are to everyone who doesn't look or live like them. Rhetorical games stop for me when racism, misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia walk into the room. And if someone gives their money to EVS, even if they would never in a million years agree with those things, that's what they're supporting.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:34 pm

Well said, although I think you have Mr. Dylan confused with Lucky Wilbury.

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Jead
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:44 pm

I prefer to be an optimist as well. The simple matter of fact is that the horrible people in the entertainment industry are a small minority in comparison to the broad group of creatives that we have overall. Sure, rumors of every single person being a douchebag will exist, but that doesn't mean much compared to extreme situations like these where everything is on full view in their work, actions, and very own words.

That being said, buy the action figure if you really want. It's not my problem, even if I disagree.
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Re: CyberFrog Figures

Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:01 am

I wasn't going to contribute to this campaign, but now I'm definitely going to drop at least a $100 so I can help trigger some white middle class millennials!

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