Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:57 pm

I've thinned my Legions collection back dramatically, but I really should have ordered that Mephitor figure. It's just great looking and a nice reuse of the Thistlethorn head. I guess I can still pre-order it at BBTS - but $50 seems a tad steep for the little fella.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:29 am

docsilence wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:43 pm
Not figure related per se, but 4H finally put out some what I would call VERY reasonable limitations on third-party use of their IP. I don't follow the customizers' discussion groups much, but I wonder if they'll get any irrational pushback. I have to do a bit of IP defense myself for my own original work and see a LOT of my colleagues get shredded for asking for even the most basic limits by folks using their stuff, but US IP law is so weird in that you've got to prove you've defended it or you'll eventually lose it entirely. I'm not surprised it took them this long to institute something, but good for them for working hard to make sure customizers can keep doing their thing while protecting their work from mass production. (I've seen so many good-hearted creators get absolutely obliterated by their fans for asking for this basic level of respect for their IPs...)

http://www.sourcehorsemen.com/updates/n ... ns-figures
What are they going to do if you don't follow their limitations? It's not like they can sue you if you break one of their rules, except for maybe using their copyrighted names.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:17 am

Depends on how much money and resources they're willing to put into it, and where the sellers set up shop. If they're using something like Etsy, those sites for small businesses and vendors tend to just believe any report of infringement and pull the product or block the seller, and rarely verify - I have friends in the fan art community who live in an eternal cycle of "welp, X site blocked my Deadpool design, I guess I got reported, gotta change websites," that kind of thing. But 4H doesn't have a warehouse full of paralegals sending takedown requests everywhere, so it may just be CYOA wordiing to prove they made a good faith effort to protect their IP.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:22 am

poncestar wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:29 am
docsilence wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:43 pm
Not figure related per se, but 4H finally put out some what I would call VERY reasonable limitations on third-party use of their IP. I don't follow the customizers' discussion groups much, but I wonder if they'll get any irrational pushback. I have to do a bit of IP defense myself for my own original work and see a LOT of my colleagues get shredded for asking for even the most basic limits by folks using their stuff, but US IP law is so weird in that you've got to prove you've defended it or you'll eventually lose it entirely. I'm not surprised it took them this long to institute something, but good for them for working hard to make sure customizers can keep doing their thing while protecting their work from mass production. (I've seen so many good-hearted creators get absolutely obliterated by their fans for asking for this basic level of respect for their IPs...)

http://www.sourcehorsemen.com/updates/n ... ns-figures
What are they going to do if you don't follow their limitations? It's not like they can sue you if you break one of their rules, except for maybe using their copyrighted names.
They absolutely could depending how it's being sold.

I'll use Football as an example since it's my favorite sport. If I start selling shirts featuring NFL logos and the like, I have absolutely no shot at just saying "Well I'm just selling shirts!" as a defense. Customers wouldn't be buying them because they're shirts, they'd be buying them because they're shirts that feature a certain design that is trademarked.

The same would apply here. Customers wouldn't be buying from these companies simply because it's 1/12 accessories, but because the marketing/advertising is being pushed with the intent of being used for Mythic Legions figures. I'm not buying just a sword/shield pack, I'm buying it because it was designed to look great with Attila, etc.

Now obviously I went for an easy example with the NFL, they're a multi billion dollar company and 4H is well... not... lol. But it's an easy enough direct comparison. Now if these companies just sold 1/12 accessories with no mention/marketing of ML figures then they'd probably be in the clear. At the same time I'm not a lawyer, so yanno, grain of salt and all.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:59 am

Most of the creators use the Cabal to promote their products. If they were infringing on this request from 4H then I just assume they will be banned from the group.

I think that is how it will be policed.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:12 am

I'm curious also why they specified specific body parts not to be replicated. Wonder if they have a patent on the design or something.

Anyway, I imagine the community, unlike almost any other fandom, has the potential to police itself since it's so tight knit. Their asks really aren't at all unreasonable (in some ways, too reasonable) so I hope nobody gives them a hard time about it, though it can be tough to convince people to respect your IP if you've not policed it yourself for a long time. Horse out of the barn and all that. A lot of indie comic creators run into that the hard way.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:15 am

Got an email a couple hours ago letting me know my order was on the way.

The order that was delivered two days ago.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:39 am

docsilence wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:12 am
I'm curious also why they specified specific body parts not to be replicated. Wonder if they have a patent on the design or something.
I imagine a good chunk of their business is customizers buying extra figures for projects. If people make replacement parts for figures, it could affect sales of their product. Not sure why upper arms and upper legs were singled out though.

I think the only problem 3rd party sellers could create is using 4Horsemen logos and names and images of 4H product to sell their own custom pieces. Custom parts sellers using copyrighted/trademarked figures to show off how their parts/weapons work, but I think the corporate owners of those figures could tell them not to do so. Like Marauder using GI Joe figures to show off their guns. I think Hasbro could legally tell them not to do so.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:17 am

TonyStark517 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:15 am
Got an email a couple hours ago letting me know my order was on the way.

The order that was delivered two days ago.
Lmao I got that same email tonight, for my All Stars figures.

I half thought it was going to be Krampus at first. Nope.... just a biiiiit delayed.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:40 pm

Samalas wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:17 am
TonyStark517 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:15 am
Got an email a couple hours ago letting me know my order was on the way.

The order that was delivered two days ago.
Lmao I got that same email tonight, for my All Stars figures.

I half thought it was going to be Krampus at first. Nope.... just a biiiiit delayed.
Same! I was hoping it'd be that cause I'd really like to get him before Xmas. The wait continues. Lol
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:46 pm

poncestar wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:29 am
docsilence wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:43 pm
Not figure related per se, but 4H finally put out some what I would call VERY reasonable limitations on third-party use of their IP. I don't follow the customizers' discussion groups much, but I wonder if they'll get any irrational pushback. I have to do a bit of IP defense myself for my own original work and see a LOT of my colleagues get shredded for asking for even the most basic limits by folks using their stuff, but US IP law is so weird in that you've got to prove you've defended it or you'll eventually lose it entirely. I'm not surprised it took them this long to institute something, but good for them for working hard to make sure customizers can keep doing their thing while protecting their work from mass production. (I've seen so many good-hearted creators get absolutely obliterated by their fans for asking for this basic level of respect for their IPs...)

http://www.sourcehorsemen.com/updates/n ... ns-figures
What are they going to do if you don't follow their limitations? It's not like they can sue you if you break one of their rules, except for maybe using their copyrighted names.
They're not going to do anything, they're just putting out guidelines but they have no intention on policing it.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:48 pm

docsilence wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:12 am
I'm curious also why they specified specific body parts not to be replicated. Wonder if they have a patent on the design or something.
When I first read that I was confused as well, I wonder if its because it almost runs the risk of just cutting their figures out of the loop? I Don't know that sounds so weird when I say it outloud but it makes some kind of sense in my head.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:41 pm

TonyStark517 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:40 pm
Samalas wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 7:17 am
TonyStark517 wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:15 am
Got an email a couple hours ago letting me know my order was on the way.

The order that was delivered two days ago.
Lmao I got that same email tonight, for my All Stars figures.

I half thought it was going to be Krampus at first. Nope.... just a biiiiit delayed.
Same! I was hoping it'd be that cause I'd really like to get him before Xmas. The wait continues. Lol
I've had Krampus sitting in my FedEx delivery manager since Tuesday. Obviously, just label created at this point, but I'm cautiously optimistic it gets to me before Christmas.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:47 pm

gosailor wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:48 pm
docsilence wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 4:12 am
I'm curious also why they specified specific body parts not to be replicated. Wonder if they have a patent on the design or something.
When I first read that I was confused as well, I wonder if its because it almost runs the risk of just cutting their figures out of the loop? I Don't know that sounds so weird when I say it outloud but it makes some kind of sense in my head.

MAFC and other 3rd party parts producers have been cranking out lots of alternate heads, feet and hands to customize the Legions bodies. They also do custom shins and forearms for specific armor ideas. So basically by calling out the torso, thighs and upper arms as off limits they have clearly given their blessing to the MAFC business model. And why wouldn't they? To use the MAFC pieces customizers have to buy Mythic Legions base bodies, so it guarantees the 4H more sales of their figures.

If they allowed reproduction and sale of the core parts of the figures customizers could essentially start buying entire figures directly from the 3rd party - which would take sales away from the 4H.

They don't care, and clearly like it, if people buy extra figures from them to change them into other things - this position encourages that behavior.
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Re: Four Horsemen - Mythic Legions

Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:18 am

That's actually really smart assuming that's the case - keep the 3rd party folks in business but make sure customizers still need that 35 dollar base body to start with. If 4H were a bigger business I could see wanting to sell their own parts and put the little guy out of business, but they don't have the bandwidth for it so it's better to keep a healthier relationship with partners. (Important to realize that needing to stay a required part of the customizer process is key though, can't let them do everything without you.)

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