Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Wed May 19, 2021 11:01 pm

I quite like that head sculpt.

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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu May 20, 2021 12:07 am

I like the size of him and will likely buy multiples... but I do have to say that I don't love that he is always Cringer unless he has the helmet on. I do like the helmet, but I would prefer if there were like an alternate head so I could choose to have Cringer or Battlecat. The MOTUC Cringer is too small, but this guy seems a bit big for Cringer. Maybe I can put the Cringer head sculpt on one of the Jumanji cat bodies for a more appropriate sized version?

This should guarantee a unique headsculpt for Panthor though, unlike with Origins.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Sun May 23, 2021 8:28 pm

I only say the 4H because mattel has worked with them before, and mattel themselves show an inability to hire a good sculptor and figure designer who can sculpt an amazingly detailed figure, with well implemented articulation. These new figures clearly don't have that. Even Mcfarlane figures have better implementation of articulation into the sculpt than these. Even the 4H.

I'm all for supporting another sculptor, they should, and maybe they will, who knows. Maybe these look so soft and miss-proportioned because of the show... but the bad-looking articulation is still their fault.

It's funny, they did a pretty good job with the Origins figures.... but maybe that's because they don't have too many joints.

I just want a He-man line that looks badass. Maybe they should get Todd on the line xd
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Sun May 23, 2021 8:55 pm

I really don't see the poorly implemented articulation. Especially on Evil-Lynn, in that aspect she looks better than most female ML figures for example.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Mon May 24, 2021 9:02 am

The main culprit is those tiny heads and that is definitely to do with the anime, so maybe after this we'll see something different not based on the show
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Tue May 25, 2021 4:45 am

spinc wrote: nd mattel themselves show an inability to hire a good sculptor and figure designer who can sculpt an amazingly detailed figure, with well implemented articulation.
I don't think that's true. The WWE line does quite well in this regard. It's mostly hamstrung by Mattel's cheapness in wanting to reuse the same bodies over and over for characters they're not appropriate for - which isn't a sculptor/engineer problem at all. That's a brass problem. I'd even argue that part of the problem with their ugly thoracic joint in the Ultimates brand is just them trying to do something that's different from what other companies are doing rather than the designer not knowing how to do it. Unfortunately, that is often a concern.
Or it could be an issue where it didn't go through tooling quite right but they just said '[email protected]#$ it' instead of fixing it because that's faster and cheaper. Look at other, smaller toy companies and they'll tell you how many times they have to go back and forth on things with the factory to get the fit just right. I could easily see Mattel skipping part of that process to really fine tune those things because they don't give a shit. Still not a sculptor/designer problem, is what I'm saying.

spinc wrote: These new figures clearly don't have that. Even Mcfarlane figures have better implementation of articulation into the sculpt than these. Even the 4H.
Based on.. what? Not attacking you, but I genuinely do not understand what your complaint is. Without actually having the figures in hand (or seeing a proper review), how are you coming to the conclusion that the articulation isn't implemented well? When looking at implementation it's a combination of how it looks in the sculpt and how it functions. Based only on pictures - the articulation breaks look like most other figures in this general style -- especially for on a mostly 'nude' figure like He-Man it's going to be very obvious, but it's in the correct places and isn't as disruptive as it could be (hell, He-Man's thoracic joint is already MILES ahead of the WWE version in looks.. we just don't know about function yet).

He-Man clearly has ankle rockers. But we have no way of knowing what the range is like from the photos we have.
It -appears- that all the articulation he needs, and that we expect from a modern retail action figure, is present and in the places and style we would expect. Except for a few spots we can't see well enough to be sure about (what kind of artic is in the neck and if there's boot swivel). So those boxes check. What we don't/can't know yet is how well they work. If they work as well as, let's say your average Marvel Legends figure, then he's already miles ahead of anything the 4H have basically ever done in their entire careers. If it's just that you're upset that there's too much breaking of the sculpt.... that's not an implementation problem. That's an 'I don't like super-articulated action figures' problem because they all look like that, unless they're hidden with cloth and cost 4 times more.

McFarlane figures have some weird choices that result in poor performance AND poor aesthetic, so he's got a ways to go, in my opinion. Lots of stuff on his figures looks ugly and/or functions very poorly. He's getting better - I'm absolutely not saying he isn't. He's doing great compared to a few years ago even. But definitely not the standard I'd want to hold any other company to. Yet.

So what isn't -implemented- well? Besides that this looks to be yet another [email protected]#$ goddamn He-Man figure that cannot [email protected]#$ do the 'I have the power' pose because Mattel is a bunch of absolute morons. Besides that.
spinc wrote: Maybe these look so soft and miss-proportioned because of the show
I imagine they look 'soft' because of a lack of paint detail. We see that with all kinds of lines. It's not a sculptor or designer problem, though. Even if the almighty Horsemen had sculpted these you'd run into that problem on an inexpensive retail line that is almost absolutely skimping on paint (Mattel seems to almost always skimp on paint). It was even noted as a problem during the tail end of MOTUC.
And the proportions are, yeah, probably the show. Hard to say. Or even a problem that came about in tooling that Mattel was too cheap or in too much of a hurry to go back and fix.

I'm not even saying you have to LIKE the figures, mind you.
spinc wrote: It's funny, they did a pretty good job with the Origins figures.... but maybe that's because they don't have too many joints.
Or paint. Instead their musculature is way more exaggerated - to a comical degree that maybe wasn't a direction they wanted to go with more 'serious-looking' figures.
spinc wrote: I just want a He-man line that looks badass. Maybe they should get Todd on the line xd
If it were up to me, we'd be getting 1:18 and 1:12 MOTU lines from Boss Fight Studio and Mattel would just keep making the Origins figures. But it's not up to me, so we've gotta work with what we have and (in my opinion) have realistic conversations about what's actually wrong and how it can be improved. 'Call the Horsemen' just isn't an answer for a number of reasons and I'd love it if there was conversation in threads like this that any potential Mattel employee who read it could take those things away and say 'okay, this we can implement.' And I say that fully aware that I just called Mattel a bunch of morons. But in my defense, when you make a 'super-articulated' He-Man figure that cannot pull off his iconic pose, you deserve to be called a moron. That one is just unforgivable.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu May 27, 2021 6:57 pm

KnightDamien wrote:
Tue May 25, 2021 4:45 am
spinc wrote: nd mattel themselves show an inability to hire a good sculptor and figure designer who can sculpt an amazingly detailed figure, with well implemented articulation.
I don't think that's true. The WWE line does quite well in this regard. It's mostly hamstrung by Mattel's cheapness in wanting to reuse the same bodies over and over for characters they're not appropriate for - which isn't a sculptor/engineer problem at all. That's a brass problem. I'd even argue that part of the problem with their ugly thoracic joint in the Ultimates brand is just them trying to do something that's different from what other companies are doing rather than the designer not knowing how to do it. Unfortunately, that is often a concern.
Or it could be an issue where it didn't go through tooling quite right but they just said '[email protected]#$ it' instead of fixing it because that's faster and cheaper. Look at other, smaller toy companies and they'll tell you how many times they have to go back and forth on things with the factory to get the fit just right. I could easily see Mattel skipping part of that process to really fine tune those things because they don't give a shit. Still not a sculptor/designer problem, is what I'm saying.

spinc wrote: These new figures clearly don't have that. Even Mcfarlane figures have better implementation of articulation into the sculpt than these. Even the 4H.
Based on.. what? Not attacking you, but I genuinely do not understand what your complaint is. Without actually having the figures in hand (or seeing a proper review), how are you coming to the conclusion that the articulation isn't implemented well? When looking at implementation it's a combination of how it looks in the sculpt and how it functions. Based only on pictures - the articulation breaks look like most other figures in this general style -- especially for on a mostly 'nude' figure like He-Man it's going to be very obvious, but it's in the correct places and isn't as disruptive as it could be (hell, He-Man's thoracic joint is already MILES ahead of the WWE version in looks.. we just don't know about function yet).

He-Man clearly has ankle rockers. But we have no way of knowing what the range is like from the photos we have.
It -appears- that all the articulation he needs, and that we expect from a modern retail action figure, is present and in the places and style we would expect. Except for a few spots we can't see well enough to be sure about (what kind of artic is in the neck and if there's boot swivel). So those boxes check. What we don't/can't know yet is how well they work. If they work as well as, let's say your average Marvel Legends figure, then he's already miles ahead of anything the 4H have basically ever done in their entire careers. If it's just that you're upset that there's too much breaking of the sculpt.... that's not an implementation problem. That's an 'I don't like super-articulated action figures' problem because they all look like that, unless they're hidden with cloth and cost 4 times more.

McFarlane figures have some weird choices that result in poor performance AND poor aesthetic, so he's got a ways to go, in my opinion. Lots of stuff on his figures looks ugly and/or functions very poorly. He's getting better - I'm absolutely not saying he isn't. He's doing great compared to a few years ago even. But definitely not the standard I'd want to hold any other company to. Yet.

So what isn't -implemented- well? Besides that this looks to be yet another [email protected]#$ goddamn He-Man figure that cannot [email protected]#$ do the 'I have the power' pose because Mattel is a bunch of absolute morons. Besides that.
spinc wrote: Maybe these look so soft and miss-proportioned because of the show
I imagine they look 'soft' because of a lack of paint detail. We see that with all kinds of lines. It's not a sculptor or designer problem, though. Even if the almighty Horsemen had sculpted these you'd run into that problem on an inexpensive retail line that is almost absolutely skimping on paint (Mattel seems to almost always skimp on paint). It was even noted as a problem during the tail end of MOTUC.
And the proportions are, yeah, probably the show. Hard to say. Or even a problem that came about in tooling that Mattel was too cheap or in too much of a hurry to go back and fix.

I'm not even saying you have to LIKE the figures, mind you.
spinc wrote: It's funny, they did a pretty good job with the Origins figures.... but maybe that's because they don't have too many joints.
Or paint. Instead their musculature is way more exaggerated - to a comical degree that maybe wasn't a direction they wanted to go with more 'serious-looking' figures.
spinc wrote: I just want a He-man line that looks badass. Maybe they should get Todd on the line xd
If it were up to me, we'd be getting 1:18 and 1:12 MOTU lines from Boss Fight Studio and Mattel would just keep making the Origins figures. But it's not up to me, so we've gotta work with what we have and (in my opinion) have realistic conversations about what's actually wrong and how it can be improved. 'Call the Horsemen' just isn't an answer for a number of reasons and I'd love it if there was conversation in threads like this that any potential Mattel employee who read it could take those things away and say 'okay, this we can implement.' And I say that fully aware that I just called Mattel a bunch of morons. But in my defense, when you make a 'super-articulated' He-Man figure that cannot pull off his iconic pose, you deserve to be called a moron. That one is just unforgivable.
Okay. First. you are right, we should have a more useful discussion to see how (and if) Mattel could improve with another release.

Second, I'm not sure how to format it like you did, so I'll just reply to each thing here.

So, I think the way they did the articulation, at least on He-man (Evil-lyn is much better in this regard) looks cheap and badly done. That's because I've seen many figures where this is done right. Let us see a few examples of this:

Image

Here's one of my favorite figures, Neca's GoW Kratos. You can see how well the shoulder joints are implemented into the torso sculpt. They almost blend together. Every joint is well done, with a great look and great poseability.

Now, of course, this is a Neca sculpt. Of course I don't expect Mattel to look like this, I mean, they obviously won't. But this figure should be put as an example of how well articulation can be implemented into a well-detailed sculpt, with proper care and attention.

Let's take a look at a more reasonable example, from Marvel Legends. Surely, a mass-market line like this is comparable to what Mattel wants to do, right?
Image

It's not perfect, sure. The cuts are very noticeable. And some don't like the way they did the shoulders (I personally don't mind). But that's a very reasonable way to sculpt a very muscular body, integrating the articulation well in a $20 dollar figure. It's even great!

Here's a Mattel example:
Image

It's not half bad! The sculpt is detailed, not too soft, and while it's not very articulated, everything seems well done. You might be able to post even better examples of this line, as I don't know much of it.

And now lets check out He-man again:
Image

Notice how big, shapeless and separated the shoulders are from his body. How long, gappy and separated the elbows look, How soft the overall sculpt is, in comparison to the other examples I've shown.

I'm not saying it's terrible... but that it needs improvement. It can be better. If Hasbro can do it, at the same price, so can Mattel. And we can't blame the cartoon for this, because He-man looks pretty well defined in it:

Image

So the articulation breaks aren't as well done as many other figures. They could be fixed, with a few little adjustments to the sculpt. Make the muscles budge out a little more. Add more detail to the hair, loincloth, etc. Bulk up the elbows, so they don't look as gappy. Put the shoulders further in the torso, so to make them blend together better. And of course, add the proper vertical hinge to that wrist.

It's not that I hate super articulation, it's quite the opposite! I love it! And I'm really happy to see them making super articulated He-man figures! But I hate to see it done cheaply, instead of putting in the work required to make it look good (not perfect, but I'm not asking for that!), as the examples I listed above. And I'm not even talking about the range of motion... they look good on that regard, at least as far as we can tell from the pictures.

And they don't need washes or dry-brushes to look good. Look at that Hercules. He doesn't have a wash to highlight his pecs. The sculpt is detailed enough to highlight them itself. That's what I want. A better sculpt. They need to hire a better sculptor, rather than sculpt them in-house, as they probably did for these (at least He-man and Skeletor, as there are rumors that the 4H sculpted Moss-man).

All these problems could be fixed, even with the same people who made these, just with a little more care and time in the oven, but then again, maybe that was all intentional. Maybe they didn't want to make it highly detailed. Maybe they didn't want to pay extra for the sculpt, and did it in-house. Maybe they added the articulation at the last minute, just to make sure they can promote the line as 'super-articulated' and make more sales.I t's probably like you said, they skipped the back and forth between their factories.

And no, I don't buy Hot toys or even Mezco figures. They're too expensive. I buy $20 figures, like Black Series, Marvel Legends, Mcfarlane DC Multiverse, etc., with the occasional Neca figure here or there. I'm still buying these, as I want to support this line, to see it grow and be better. I want to see a second wave with a newly sculpted buck, with lots of muscle definition, detail, good proportions, and of course, well-implemented articulation with great range of motion. They CAN do better. They SHOULD do better. Especially with He-man, their defining line!

Sorry for the huge wall of text. I'm not ranting against you.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Sun May 30, 2021 9:25 pm

I'm surprised at how quickly Mattel has let this stagnate.


no I couldn't even type that with a straight face classic mattel @#$%ery
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:21 pm

Image
Amazon Origins Wind Raider had this up for awhile.

Some new Masterverse Figure?
Edit
Image
With the full picture, is this a new masterverse Wind Raider?
Image
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:45 am

^Looks like Oo-Larr or could it be a clue about He-Man's fate after the final battle between him and Skeletor?
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:15 pm

Looks like he's off to join a 70's heavy rock band

for example:

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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:07 am

spinc wrote: Second, I'm not sure how to format it like you did, so I'll just reply to each thing here.
If you're on a PC when you hit the Reply button there's a thread history below the text box where you can scroll through previous comments, highlight text and hit the 'quote' button to the right of the poster's name, and it will specifically quote the text you highlighted with the name of the poster. I only do it because it helps me organize my thoughts. But if you were interested, now you know how I do it.

spinc wrote: Notice how big, shapeless and separated the shoulders are from his body. How long, gappy and separated the elbows look, How soft the overall sculpt is, in comparison to the other examples I've shown.
First of all, I appreciate you taking the time to respond like that and give me your viewpoint. I'm finding that I do agree with you here. While I, maybe, don't find it as egregious, I can definitely see your points. Although I'm not sure I'd agree with your Ultimate Warrior example. I tend to think all/most of the WWE figures have the same problem you're describing with the big ball shoulders just sticking off the side of the torso. Having collected that line for a long time maybe that's why it didn't jump out at me as problematic. Got used to it, I suppose.

The only thing I'm not sure I agree about, and this may just be taste, is the idea that the sculpt is -soft- just because it's not jagged-edged muscles like Ultimate Warrior. I do think there's good definition in the sculpt. But I can see your point that some of the breaks aren't handled well. And, of course, it's also hard to say because the pictures are a little washed out. We're not getting much shadow in there to see the details.
spinc wrote: Put the shoulders further in the torso, so to make them blend together better.
If I had my way, you could accomplish this by giving He-Man proper butterfly joints. Personally, I still think it's pretty unacceptable these days for action figures to not have that articulation. I also think it's unacceptable for He-Man to not be able to do the 'I have the power' pose, but here we are. Again.

spinc wrote: They CAN do better. They SHOULD do better. Especially with He-man, their defining line!
That is something I can totally agree with. But again, I do think some of the way he looks is an intentional design choice rather than them just doing a figure badly because they can't/won't do it better. And a lot of these complaints - both mine and yours - are definitely 'Mattelisms.' This is just what a Mattel line looks like and I don't think they're interested in doing much better than this. Again, we may be just disagreeing here or have different tastes, but I do see a fair bit of definition in the musculature so I don't actually think there's a huge issue here with it being the problem of a less talented sculptor. But I'll hold off on claiming certainty about that until we see more dynamic photos with more natural lighting.
spinc wrote: Sorry for the huge wall of text. I'm not ranting against you.
I didn't take it that way at all, for the record. Like I said - I appreciate the thoughtful response.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:17 am

KnightDamien wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:07 am
And a lot of these complaints - both mine and yours - are definitely 'Mattelisms.' This is just what a Mattel line looks like and I don't think they're interested in doing much better than this. Again, we may be just disagreeing here or have different tastes, but I do see a fair bit of definition in the musculature so I don't actually think there's a huge issue here with it being the problem of a less talented sculptor. But I'll hold off on claiming certainty about that until we see more dynamic photos with more natural lighting.
You may be right, and yeah, I think they're fine, but I would like them to look more defined. The sculptor might be very talented, and this is simply mattel wanting a less detailed look. Or a mix of both.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:04 pm

I donno about anyone else, but that new trailer has me hyped.
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Re: Masterverse: 7” He-Man line

Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:21 pm

NORM wrote:I donno about anyone else, but that new trailer has me hyped.
Me as well. 40 years or so ago, my friend and I would get off the school bus and race to his house for the show.

https://youtu.be/81wyj65SJIo

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