Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

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Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:22 am

I don’t know if there was a thread about this before the snap but I’m playing the beta right now and paused to air some thoughts:

Again, SPOILERS!


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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:26 am

I’ll post my thoughts here, very interested to hear what others found good or bad about the game.
Spoiler! :
So this is in all honesty what i would have to call false advertising.

This is “Ms Marvel and Friends: The Game”

I’m sure there will be disagreements immediately from some folks but just stop, and be honest.

From the beginning she is framed as the VO/POV character.

So far the two slowed down exploratory sequences I’ve reached are both her, and she talks aloud to herself as you go through it, similar to the PS4 Spider-Man game, except that as some kind of bizarre mouth breather she also seems to be speaking aloud to herself rather than in her own head, but maybe this is a sound design issue in the beta and will have an echo added to make it seem like internal monologue in the finished game.
Somehow I doubt it because the other characters you try out don’t really do this. We already know them quite well, and I’m calling this deliberate on the game’s part in that they want us to auto-insert our positive perceptions of the characters into the mental space we occupy when playing as them.

This is not to say that she’s bad to play as, she’s... fine. Plays like you’d expect, basically a discount Mister Fantastic who isn’t a genius. Character model is nice, outfit design would have made a nice Marvel Legends figure I would have actually bought if they had not just repainted the old figure that nobody needed again.

Also there’s an irritating facet that is very reminiscent of For Awakens and The Last Jedi. Remember how when Han dies they make a big deal of how it effects Rey but diminish the exploration of this loss for Chewie and Leia? They literally frame his death as a loss to Rey first, and when she tells Luke it actually cuts away and we don’t see any reaction from him.
Well this game starts with a battle that ends with the death of Captain America. And then jumps ahead five years. And the first time two characters speak significantly about their thoughts or feelings it’s Bruce telling Kamala how brave she was for the preceding action scene.
They kill off Captain America and then skip any exploration of how this affects other characters.

I’m not saying any of this to dump on Ms Marvel, she’s always been a product of woke inclusivity nobody needed in comics because if anybody knows the value of empathising with the value of a persons character regardless of their race or gender or other characteristics then it’s fans of comics. But this game is just not what it purports to be, it’s mistimed and going to stir up unnecessary bullshit controversy as people either love or hate it, either for good reasons or bad, all in the name of buzz that will get people talking about it even if they don’t play it.

I’ve got to be frank in that I think it’s a pretty bad faith effort to make this game in this way, and disrespectful to the source material and manipulative and condescending to the audience. If they had just made a game about the Avengers, with extra characters such as Ms Marvel available to play, it would have stood as what it says it is and still introduce newer players to a character who is pretty fun to play as.

And that’s very obvious - they put serious effort into making Kamala fun to play as and her scenes slow down a little to be the place where you first really feel inclined to explore the skills and upgrades, it’s all very much geared towards selling you on her being the main character.

The others...

So a basic problem that a lot of video games have with these characters is consistency of powers and credible threats. For the most part you fight baddies in tactical gear and mechanised armour. These should be one punch deaths for any going up against the hulk or Thor, but nope. Really diminishes them feeling like they are who they say they are, and when Thor speaks he comes across a bit lacking in intelligence. Then in cut scenes they seem much stronger all of a sudden - it’s just jarring. They’ll throw tanks and smack down the Abomination but in the game basic grunts with rifles will rush you and overwhelm you. A one-size fits all approach makes it hard to develop consistency across the other Avengers because then Cap and Natasha in melee combat seem to have not enough difference between the respective challenge. Unfortunately it really screws with your play style, as there were a few parts where as the Hulk I was choosing to keep my distance and spam the enemies from afar with rocks as going into melee a squad of more than 6 opponents was too likely to overpower me. And that’s just dumb, I might as well have been playing as a different avenger then.

I might be misremembering at this point but I’m wondering if Disney Infinity 2.0 did a better job of this? I remember it being more fun to play, certainly a more creative endeavour, so I’m planning to go back and see how it handled when I’m done with this.

A big issue - There’s no inversion for the X-axis. That’s a personal but also not uncommon preference based on spatial awareness as interpreted by different people, and should really be standard as an accessibility feature. Due to its omission Iron Man handles like trash, and aiming repulsor blasts as him or throwing Mjolnir as Thor is a fraction of mental correction too long in combat, makes them really not that much fun to play as.

Black Widow looks to be the most fun character to play as overall, the way she handles feels much better articulated compared to the brief couple of minutes you get to play as Steve, but she’s not super powered so Kamala is more exciting to use in terms of spectacle.

Another story issue - the plot seems centred on Terrigen Crystals while treating the disaster that Cap dies in as a stand in for the inciting incidents of innocents dying in Stanford or Lagos for the comics or movies respectively, but treats it as ground zero for an infection of random power manifestation like it’s a disease, with AIM stepping in to formulate suppression of powered folk and forcibly “curing them”. (They even throw in a weird scene of Banner testifying in court that he believes super powered beings are a threat to all. Like a $%^@*&!#.)

These ideas in their own right have been explored before to varying degrees of success, but glueing them together as the plot for this game is not creative, it’s recycling with a new lick of paint and forcing you to buy it by packaging it in a manipulative way - so yes this is the game equivalent of taking the old Ms Marvel Legends figure, repainting her and packing her in with the torso of the Abomination Figure so you have to buy her to get the thing you want most but can skip Captain America as he looks like a cosplayer and didn’t come with a BAF part.

And the fact that I was so underwhelmed playing the game that I stopped to write this post is not good. But also not to say that it’s outright bad. The Ms Marvel sections are fun enough, but overall contribute to making you realise you’d rather be playing the game as other characters. Or if it was actually focused on the Avengers themselves.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:36 am

kailryu wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:26 am
I’m not saying any of this to dump on Ms Marvel, she’s always been a product of woke inclusivity nobody needed in comics because if anybody knows the value of empathising with the value of a persons character regardless of their race or gender or other characteristics then it’s fans of comics.

Is this a joke? Have you heard of Comicsgate?
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:18 am

^^
No it’s a not, but if that’s specifically all you focused on in the post honestly I think on balance it’s the wrong can of worms for the gaming board, and yes that’s probably my own fault for trying to qualify why I feel the game goes in the wrong direction, so that’s on me. If you do want to open up that topic with me you’re welcome to DM me about it if you’d like, and I’m happy to have a cordial discussion about it.


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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:55 pm

Frankly, I have no comment about the game. I was probably going to pass on it because it's mediocre, and we seem to be aligned on that.

Characters like Kamala are in games, TV shows, and movies so the audience has a touchpoint they can relate to. I'm not like super scientist Bruce Banner, billionaire Tony Stark, Russian spy Black Widow, etc. Kamala is a high-school student from New Jersey. I take issue with the idea that every appearance of a non-white, non-male character is some exercise in forced inclusivity. The world is a colorful place. Media should reflect that.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sat Aug 22, 2020 7:38 pm

I preordered this had a bunch of microsoft reward points so it was almost free. Gameplay looks fun enough.
Ps4 gets spiderman though. Big leaked list of future playable characters on reddit.
This, assassin creed valhalla, cyberpunk, gotham knights, suicide squad is about it for this generation of systems unless I'm missing something.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:30 pm

TheSameIdiot wrote: I take issue with the idea that every appearance of a non-white, non-male character is some exercise in forced inclusivity. The world is a colorful place. Media should reflect that.

You’re absolutely right about that, but nobody was making that kind of sweeping generalisation here, certainly not me. Representation is not an issue anybody should be having an issue with, but the reason for how and why it’s implemented is another issue entirely, because it’s often done badly and with patronising and insulting lack of insight, and as I said, not really the point of wanting to discuss the game.

If it clarifies my earlier points about what the experience of the game is like versus how it is being marketed, then I’ll reiterate, the amount of effort put into translating Ms Marvel into a playable character is impressive and well executed, but it clashes with the situation that if the best part of the Avengers game is not one of the Avengers, that’s a pretty big disconnect. Some of it feels arbitrarily slowed down too, Thor, Hulk and Iron Man in particular, which is a real shame as in the case of Hulk’s animations in particular, he’s really well realised in the 3D character models but handles worse than he did in the Ultimate Destruction game on the PS2, and that’s just bizarre.

Anyway I just came in to post a link to this video:

https://youtu.be/25Q_T_ln4dg

Looks like the longterm play experience is really pushed towards stealth monetisation in lieu of features like loot boxes, as the characters bring free but associated mission packs being behind a pay wall is utter shenanigans, and Sterling makes a good point about how “cosmetic” features do affect gameplay when the players’ attachment to specific costumes is a massive part of how we’d feel playing and therefore possibly performing in the game.

The Insomniac Spider-Man game proved that with some costumes being rewards for accomplishments within the paid DLC, and I can imagine how getting something like the Silver Centurion armour for Iron Man in this game will be a real, er... game changer, for how the player feels and experiences the game.


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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:35 pm

I want to buy the game but I'm still hesitating.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:55 pm

Bummer that Hulk is underpowered. He was probably the character I was looking forward to the most.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:10 pm

The three gamers of my family (myself, my wife, and my son) were pretty excited by this game when it was announced. My wife and I immediately lost a lot of excitement (most excitement, maybe) when it was clear this was going to be a 'live service' game. Just make a [email protected]#$ regular video game, you soulless ghouls! It could have been so much fun if it were made in the spirit of the new Spider-Man.

Instead, it's Square Enix presents an Electronic Arts version of Marvel's The Fortnite. And make no mistake.. that's why the game is trash. Because they crammed in so much bullshit that it's a bloated cesspool of collectible boxes and endless samey combat with barely any clear direction or story. Although, 'stopping to be honest' - the complaints about Ms. Marvel are ignorant nonsense in the extreme. It is definitely valid to say that the game is essentially ruined by playing someone like Thor that has to repeatedly whale away at 'kevlar-armored goon number 6' like he's in a legitimate fight. It's basically the same problem you encounter in a game like Fallen Order where you run up to a Stormtrooper and you need to hit him 4 times in the face with a lightsaber to kill him. It absolutely wrecks the entire experience by being jarringly ridiculous. But.. gotta make your Tom Clancy's The Avengers game really grindy, right?

I'd argue that game doesn't look as good as it could, and the camera is kind of janky. There's little issues like that here and there. My opinion is that, as often is the case with games like this, these problems (and even most of the larger problems) persist mostly because so much resources went into all the extraneous, predatory trash in the game that not enough attention was paid to the final polish and play value.

In any event, with or without 'woke inclusivity' - Avengers is a pile of festering shit that's the same as every other festering pile of shit in the current market of video games except that this one has Thor.
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Re: Square Enix MARVEL’s THE AVENGERS - SPOILERS (BETA Release)

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:56 am

Graphics not at all up to par, quest uninteresting light scenario, combat technique without limited interest like spider man apart from normal and critical hits no other interesting technique for the sake of the game.

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