Michaels to me is the GOAT (despite his issues), so I can't go so far as say Ziggler could have been at his level - that's not a knock on Ziggler, his in-ring selling is great and he has the charisma to work as either a face or heel.
Ziggler at least had IC, US and World title runs so his whole career wasn't a total loss. I agree though they seemed to never fully get behind him like they should have.
I wonder if Gable will start to get a singles push, if they peel Otis away for some MMM weirdness.
Pro-Wrestling Discussion
-
KnightDamien
- Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
When I think about Ziggler technically being a former world champion, I think of CM Punk not headlining a SINGLE PPV during his entire 400+ days as champion. WWE has an amazing ability to make someone a champion and make them seem completely irrelevant at the same time.
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
I have a feeling we'd say the same thing about Michaels if they had treated him like Ziggler. In fact, people DID say essentially this about Michaels in the earlier stages of his career and I imagine that's where his legacy would have ended if he'd been sandbagged like Ziggler has been.fac wrote: Michaels to me is the GOAT (despite his issues), so I can't go so far as say Ziggler could have been at his level - that's not a knock on Ziggler, his in-ring selling is great and he has the charisma to work as either a face or heel.
When I think about Ziggler technically being a former world champion, I think of CM Punk not headlining a SINGLE PPV during his entire 400+ days as champion. WWE has an amazing ability to make someone a champion and make them seem completely irrelevant at the same time.
-
TFitz
- Master of Avatars
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
It seems like they are slow-playing a tag team with Ziggler and Ali, and they'd be one of the most talented teams on the roster, yet I feel they (WWE) would still ruin them.
-
KnightDamien
- Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
If this were AEW? Then it might be a really interesting development. But WWE? They don't care about tag teams or tag team wrestling in even the slightest, smallest, eensy-weensiest bit. It's a dumping ground for guys they don't currently have plans for, a place to build new talent from, or a way to have instant back-up for a stable leader. Those are the only three purposes WWE has for tag teams. Note that 'actual tag team wrestling' isn't on that list.
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Oh, that's guaranteed. Ziggler was already one half of a very talented tag team and what good did it do?TFitz wrote: It seems like they are slow-playing a tag team with Ziggler and Ali, and they'd be one of the most talented teams on the roster, yet I feel they (WWE) would still ruin them.
If this were AEW? Then it might be a really interesting development. But WWE? They don't care about tag teams or tag team wrestling in even the slightest, smallest, eensy-weensiest bit. It's a dumping ground for guys they don't currently have plans for, a place to build new talent from, or a way to have instant back-up for a stable leader. Those are the only three purposes WWE has for tag teams. Note that 'actual tag team wrestling' isn't on that list.
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Not sure who decided that MJF's promo tonight should have him bragging he used his barely alive girlfriend to take the fall for a near-fatal car accident, but I thought that was pretty stupid.
Good heeling makes me hate you for what your current actions are, to the point I need the face to put you in your place (see Roman and even Dom at this point, and every Miz storyline ever). While this story does indeed make me think MJF is scum, what exactly is the point of the bad guy himself admitting he is scum? He told that story in a way that makes him self-aware that he is scum, which undermines it. It doesn't work as "I will do anything for own best interests" story, at least to me. And it didn't work as a self-prompted admission. That story might work in some promo battle where Danielson is talking about MJF having no honor and MJF saying BD is right and he doesn't, and he knows Danielson thinks that's an insult, which is why he can beat him - and then give the example of how he does what others with honor wouldn't do, which is why he is here today.
That's the sort of character story that, if you want to make it storyline, you actually play out - like MJF gets "hurt" in an accident with someone else driving (say a heel female wrestler you want to turn face, slowly), and he uses it to get sympathy by his concern over the driver and his own suffering, only for us to learn he was at fault and put her in the drivers seat to avoid charges - he'd get massive heat, and the other wrestler comes out as a face. Or you have someone find out about this and use it against him, where he denies it and then acts like it was the right thing to do.
All that story did was make me think he should be in jail. And that he is too self-aware of his villainy. And that BD isn't going to dedicate that match to "Liv" so who cares?
That may be a long over-reaction to a basic promo, but I really felt that was a terrible idea for a promo.
Anyway, compare that to the Rhodes/Heyman promo from Raw, which instantly heated up that feud by making it personal - look for Roman to harp on how Dusty's favorite son already has the title, that Dusty knew who to back and train to become the face of the WWE, etc., that this isn't Roman's family legacy vs. the Rhodes family legacy, as he is already more of Dusty's legacy than Cody will ever be. That will make me want to see Cody win...
Second anyway, I was stunned (where's the sarcasm font) that Danielson won (OK, that's unfair as a lot of things are telegraphed in wrestling but the "need to get through X people" works best with an underdog face, not someone like Danielson at this point in his career). We'll see how the Iron Man match goes, but as I said before, I honestly expect the fans to turn on the match and the outcome. (I'll also say this, they never book enough falls in these IM matches to my taste - an hour should result in multiple pins and end like 4-3. Most matches are like 10 minute affairs, it makes no sense that over 60 minutes we get only a couple.)
Good heeling makes me hate you for what your current actions are, to the point I need the face to put you in your place (see Roman and even Dom at this point, and every Miz storyline ever). While this story does indeed make me think MJF is scum, what exactly is the point of the bad guy himself admitting he is scum? He told that story in a way that makes him self-aware that he is scum, which undermines it. It doesn't work as "I will do anything for own best interests" story, at least to me. And it didn't work as a self-prompted admission. That story might work in some promo battle where Danielson is talking about MJF having no honor and MJF saying BD is right and he doesn't, and he knows Danielson thinks that's an insult, which is why he can beat him - and then give the example of how he does what others with honor wouldn't do, which is why he is here today.
That's the sort of character story that, if you want to make it storyline, you actually play out - like MJF gets "hurt" in an accident with someone else driving (say a heel female wrestler you want to turn face, slowly), and he uses it to get sympathy by his concern over the driver and his own suffering, only for us to learn he was at fault and put her in the drivers seat to avoid charges - he'd get massive heat, and the other wrestler comes out as a face. Or you have someone find out about this and use it against him, where he denies it and then acts like it was the right thing to do.
All that story did was make me think he should be in jail. And that he is too self-aware of his villainy. And that BD isn't going to dedicate that match to "Liv" so who cares?
That may be a long over-reaction to a basic promo, but I really felt that was a terrible idea for a promo.
Anyway, compare that to the Rhodes/Heyman promo from Raw, which instantly heated up that feud by making it personal - look for Roman to harp on how Dusty's favorite son already has the title, that Dusty knew who to back and train to become the face of the WWE, etc., that this isn't Roman's family legacy vs. the Rhodes family legacy, as he is already more of Dusty's legacy than Cody will ever be. That will make me want to see Cody win...
Second anyway, I was stunned (where's the sarcasm font) that Danielson won (OK, that's unfair as a lot of things are telegraphed in wrestling but the "need to get through X people" works best with an underdog face, not someone like Danielson at this point in his career). We'll see how the Iron Man match goes, but as I said before, I honestly expect the fans to turn on the match and the outcome. (I'll also say this, they never book enough falls in these IM matches to my taste - an hour should result in multiple pins and end like 4-3. Most matches are like 10 minute affairs, it makes no sense that over 60 minutes we get only a couple.)
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Enjoyed Elimination Chamber quite a bit. Even though I knew they wouldn't have Sami win, there was just enough doubt that maybe they'd call an audible.
So the rumor is we will get the Usos vs Sami/KO at Wrestlemania. Presumably Reigns will demand payback on Sami and KO and will send the Usos to get them, and also to test Jey. What I hope happens is that at the WM match, Jey refuses to hit Sami, Sami refuses to hit Jey, KO and Jimmy get angry with Sami and Jey about that, and the match ends with Sami and Jey a team going forward, just leaving their partners behind, tired of being berated for their actions. And slowly, Sami and Jey pull Jimmy, then Solo, away from Reigns, before Jey finally puts Reigns down.
So the rumor is we will get the Usos vs Sami/KO at Wrestlemania. Presumably Reigns will demand payback on Sami and KO and will send the Usos to get them, and also to test Jey. What I hope happens is that at the WM match, Jey refuses to hit Sami, Sami refuses to hit Jey, KO and Jimmy get angry with Sami and Jey about that, and the match ends with Sami and Jey a team going forward, just leaving their partners behind, tired of being berated for their actions. And slowly, Sami and Jey pull Jimmy, then Solo, away from Reigns, before Jey finally puts Reigns down.
-
TFitz
- Master of Avatars
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
If they did this, it would result in no tag-team champs, and then the could split up the belts again for each brand. Not really sure if I'm for or against that if I'm being honest.fac wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:07 amEnjoyed Elimination Chamber quite a bit. Even though I knew they wouldn't have Sami win, there was just enough doubt that maybe they'd call an audible.
So the rumor is we will get the Usos vs Sami/KO at Wrestlemania. Presumably Reigns will demand payback on Sami and KO and will send the Usos to get them, and also to test Jey. What I hope happens is that at the WM match, Jey refuses to hit Sami, Sami refuses to hit Jey, KO and Jimmy get angry with Sami and Jey about that, and the match ends with Sami and Jey a team going forward, just leaving their partners behind, tired of being berated for their actions. And slowly, Sami and Jey pull Jimmy, then Solo, away from Reigns, before Jey finally puts Reigns down.
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
RE the WWE tag belts, I could see Jimmy/Solo vs Jey/Sami down the road - they did Freebird the teams in title defenses with both of those combos recently (Jey/Sami on Raw XXX, Jimmy/Solo on Raw this week or last), maybe if the title was vacated due to Jimmy and Jey splitting, each could claim they are the rightful heirs to the title, and they need to battle it out to see who deserves it.
RE MJF vs Danielson. I wonder if we get a double turn out of this match. The BCC has been acting a bit more heelish lately - if Mox goes too far against Hangman, could that turn the fans on Mox? What if they have MJF actually out-wrestle, with no interference or cheating, Danielson to beat him clean like 3 falls to 2, and it is Danielson at the end of the match who is desperate and tries to cheat (and maybe gets an unearned pin to tie it up) before MJF takes the match, and then he beats down MJF afterwards, with help from the BCC? It was interesting to me they had Danielson attack MJF on the mic last night with the engagement ending bit, that is sort of heelish. I doubt it goes this way, but it would be fun to see and I think the BCC being ruthless, hard to beat heels in the Reigns/Bloodline-ish mode might be an interesting tactic. Or even somewhat NWO-like if you slowly put the older, established former WWE folks together as a semi-faction of heels (Cage, Jericho - just the WWE "legends", not guys like Black or Miro) against the younger "true AEW" performers. Easy to push the AEW fans into a work/shoot thing of the WWE guys holding down the younger AEW folks...
RE MJF vs Danielson. I wonder if we get a double turn out of this match. The BCC has been acting a bit more heelish lately - if Mox goes too far against Hangman, could that turn the fans on Mox? What if they have MJF actually out-wrestle, with no interference or cheating, Danielson to beat him clean like 3 falls to 2, and it is Danielson at the end of the match who is desperate and tries to cheat (and maybe gets an unearned pin to tie it up) before MJF takes the match, and then he beats down MJF afterwards, with help from the BCC? It was interesting to me they had Danielson attack MJF on the mic last night with the engagement ending bit, that is sort of heelish. I doubt it goes this way, but it would be fun to see and I think the BCC being ruthless, hard to beat heels in the Reigns/Bloodline-ish mode might be an interesting tactic. Or even somewhat NWO-like if you slowly put the older, established former WWE folks together as a semi-faction of heels (Cage, Jericho - just the WWE "legends", not guys like Black or Miro) against the younger "true AEW" performers. Easy to push the AEW fans into a work/shoot thing of the WWE guys holding down the younger AEW folks...
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Was expecting to hear from KD about his boys in the House of Black winning the Trios!
I didn't order the PPV, so have only seen highlights, but sounds like the MJF/Danielson match was pretty solid all the way through. Interesting they had both members of BCC tap, as compared to pass out. I read some speculation that maybe the chain with Mox at the end was too high into his neck and he had to legit tap to have it released.
The big kerfuffle with MJF throwing the liquid at the kid seems overheated - I am not a parent but there seems to be a lot of posts with people claiming they would sue, press charges, have jumped the railing, etc., if it was their kid. I think if you feel your kid is old enough to watch people wrap barbed wire around themselves and stab folks with a fork, while bleeding profusely, then you kid ought to be old enough to understand that what happened was part of the show and not a real assault. I think AEW is a 13+ type of show and at that age you can deal with this. Having said that, I do think any fan interaction beyond verbal taunting is probably a step too far these days. (I also think that was totally an audible riffing on the girl crying and Liv taking her backstage from Smackdown - probably MJF thinking it would be viewed as the contrast between him and AEW and a face like LIV and WWE.)
I didn't order the PPV, so have only seen highlights, but sounds like the MJF/Danielson match was pretty solid all the way through. Interesting they had both members of BCC tap, as compared to pass out. I read some speculation that maybe the chain with Mox at the end was too high into his neck and he had to legit tap to have it released.
The big kerfuffle with MJF throwing the liquid at the kid seems overheated - I am not a parent but there seems to be a lot of posts with people claiming they would sue, press charges, have jumped the railing, etc., if it was their kid. I think if you feel your kid is old enough to watch people wrap barbed wire around themselves and stab folks with a fork, while bleeding profusely, then you kid ought to be old enough to understand that what happened was part of the show and not a real assault. I think AEW is a 13+ type of show and at that age you can deal with this. Having said that, I do think any fan interaction beyond verbal taunting is probably a step too far these days. (I also think that was totally an audible riffing on the girl crying and Liv taking her backstage from Smackdown - probably MJF thinking it would be viewed as the contrast between him and AEW and a face like LIV and WWE.)
-
KnightDamien
- Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
And really, it was the only correct decision. As I believe I went into before - HoB absolutely could not survive losing another higher profile feud. So far most of what they've done was lose the important matches -- even down to individually having their asses kicked one after another by skaterboi. I genuinely do believe that if they'd lost this match, there wouldn't have been any way for them to recover the interest of the crowd. They'd just be labeled as high-level jobbers and largely ignored.
The downside to all this is that Julia has BARELY had any matches since HoB's return and that's a shame. She's still green but has lots of potential and lots of talent and deserves better than occasional squash wins on Dark. I'd really like to see her with the TBS championship or RoH women's championship.
Surprised that the Gunns are still tag champs, but also not really. 'The chase' is always more fun, so having the titles on the bad guys for a while is a good call. I'm looking forward to the showdown with the returning Best Tag Team of all Time. But on its own merits, that tag match was really fun. I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to, as I'm usually not a big fan of the matches that involve this many people. But there was tons of great stuff here and they managed to have some really amazing wrestling, as well as some really good funny spots and things like that. No notes. Good job to everyone involved. Even JJ was really great here, and I don't usually care about him very much. For his age, though, the guy can still really move and he knows what his role is and does it perfectly.
Not sure how I really expected MJF/BD to go, but .. meh. I don't think there was any way to deal with this feud that wasn't going to feel off. It's too early for MJF to lose, but Bryan losing also isn't exactly the direction I would want to see. Amazing match, though. No taking that away from these guys. I just went in not feeling like there was really a satisfactory way to end it, and I walked away thinking I was definitely correct.
Jericho-Starks was an easy skip. I don't really have any interest in Jericho or his matches and so putting him up against a guy I REALLY don't give a shit about .. didn't even watch it.
Perry/Cage was okay. The story was definitely better than the match, but that's usually the case when you get to these non-wrestling 'brawl/fight' matches. I can't explain why, but I just did not really care about their feud. I think maybe because of Christian's injury pushing the pay-off so far back from the story. Like..I can barely remember how it all started at this point.
Hayter/Soho/Saraya was a really, really good match with a pretty bland ending. I'm not opposed to the match ending without a finisher. I actually think it's a great idea and keeps people guessing. And that in mind I -don't- like the overuse of the' surprise roll up' finish (not that that's what this was), but the final pin DID feel really unearned. It was kind of the standard swap-around of pin attempts and Jaime gets it? It was less out of nowhere and more 'that's it?'
And I mean.. predictable as all hell. The ONLY reason Soho was even added to this feud was so that she could take the L, so the two women that actually matter to AEW don't have the loss on their record. Hayter shouldn't lose the title yet, but Saraya shouldn't be losing matches yet. Hence.. dump Soho in the match and let her lose instead. Like she always does. Bad form on AEW's part, in my opinion.
I've said this many times - if you're not prepared to book a LOSER, don't book the match. Easy outs are lame and the audience can see it coming a mile away.
Mox/Hangman was an EASY skip. Moxley [email protected]#$ sucks. His constant need to bleed in every match sucks. He's ruining wrestling. Let him go to some ECW wannabe indie promotion where he belongs.
Joe/Wardlow was also pretty predictable and also not very good. But I really need to stress that I just really, really hate Samoa Joe's matches. I find him tedious. I think his matches in general are boring. I find his persona incredibly grating and try-hard. Just no interest in actually seeing him anywhere and him coming to AEW at all was a huge disappointment for me, and I'd really like him to [email protected]#$ off over to ROH-TV as soon as possible.
And Wardlow was way more interesting feuding with MJF than he has been since winning his 'freedom.' Not a Wardlow shot, as that's totally on the writing/creative team.
Looking forward to some fall-out on Dynamite.
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
I've been too busy to really nerd out about the PPV, but dude I am stoked about this. And it was a PHENOMENAL match. Loved every second of it.fac wrote: Was expecting to hear from KD about his boys in the House of Black winning the Trios!
And really, it was the only correct decision. As I believe I went into before - HoB absolutely could not survive losing another higher profile feud. So far most of what they've done was lose the important matches -- even down to individually having their asses kicked one after another by skaterboi. I genuinely do believe that if they'd lost this match, there wouldn't have been any way for them to recover the interest of the crowd. They'd just be labeled as high-level jobbers and largely ignored.
The downside to all this is that Julia has BARELY had any matches since HoB's return and that's a shame. She's still green but has lots of potential and lots of talent and deserves better than occasional squash wins on Dark. I'd really like to see her with the TBS championship or RoH women's championship.
Surprised that the Gunns are still tag champs, but also not really. 'The chase' is always more fun, so having the titles on the bad guys for a while is a good call. I'm looking forward to the showdown with the returning Best Tag Team of all Time. But on its own merits, that tag match was really fun. I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to, as I'm usually not a big fan of the matches that involve this many people. But there was tons of great stuff here and they managed to have some really amazing wrestling, as well as some really good funny spots and things like that. No notes. Good job to everyone involved. Even JJ was really great here, and I don't usually care about him very much. For his age, though, the guy can still really move and he knows what his role is and does it perfectly.
Not sure how I really expected MJF/BD to go, but .. meh. I don't think there was any way to deal with this feud that wasn't going to feel off. It's too early for MJF to lose, but Bryan losing also isn't exactly the direction I would want to see. Amazing match, though. No taking that away from these guys. I just went in not feeling like there was really a satisfactory way to end it, and I walked away thinking I was definitely correct.
Jericho-Starks was an easy skip. I don't really have any interest in Jericho or his matches and so putting him up against a guy I REALLY don't give a shit about .. didn't even watch it.
Perry/Cage was okay. The story was definitely better than the match, but that's usually the case when you get to these non-wrestling 'brawl/fight' matches. I can't explain why, but I just did not really care about their feud. I think maybe because of Christian's injury pushing the pay-off so far back from the story. Like..I can barely remember how it all started at this point.
Hayter/Soho/Saraya was a really, really good match with a pretty bland ending. I'm not opposed to the match ending without a finisher. I actually think it's a great idea and keeps people guessing. And that in mind I -don't- like the overuse of the' surprise roll up' finish (not that that's what this was), but the final pin DID feel really unearned. It was kind of the standard swap-around of pin attempts and Jaime gets it? It was less out of nowhere and more 'that's it?'
And I mean.. predictable as all hell. The ONLY reason Soho was even added to this feud was so that she could take the L, so the two women that actually matter to AEW don't have the loss on their record. Hayter shouldn't lose the title yet, but Saraya shouldn't be losing matches yet. Hence.. dump Soho in the match and let her lose instead. Like she always does. Bad form on AEW's part, in my opinion.
I've said this many times - if you're not prepared to book a LOSER, don't book the match. Easy outs are lame and the audience can see it coming a mile away.
Mox/Hangman was an EASY skip. Moxley [email protected]#$ sucks. His constant need to bleed in every match sucks. He's ruining wrestling. Let him go to some ECW wannabe indie promotion where he belongs.
Joe/Wardlow was also pretty predictable and also not very good. But I really need to stress that I just really, really hate Samoa Joe's matches. I find him tedious. I think his matches in general are boring. I find his persona incredibly grating and try-hard. Just no interest in actually seeing him anywhere and him coming to AEW at all was a huge disappointment for me, and I'd really like him to [email protected]#$ off over to ROH-TV as soon as possible.
And Wardlow was way more interesting feuding with MJF than he has been since winning his 'freedom.' Not a Wardlow shot, as that's totally on the writing/creative team.
Looking forward to some fall-out on Dynamite.
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Glad you liked it KD, I couldn't bring myself to pony up the $50 it costs here in the US. As a Buddy Mathews fan glad he is getting some attention which I think he deserves due to his ring work. I'd like it if HoB could simply walk into the arena for a promo battle once in awhile and not do the lights on/lights off - appear/disappear schtick.
Given Dynamite, not sure why they didn't have Moxley turn at the PPV. Maybe they were trying to get folks to back Hangman during the match, with the things like the fork spot, but fans are too bloodthirsty to see that as a heel move by Mox in such an "anything goes" match.
Danielson's promo about "going home" intrigued me in part because I actually thought that is a defensible and understandable decision in real life - you have a family at home, you have a serious injury history, I'd almost rather see these guys retire early and have me think they'll be able to walk and talk in 20 years. In any case, it sort of vindicated MJF as being right - I think we are supposed to dislike MJF for breaking Danielson's spirit, but since I wince when Danielson does spots around his neck... I don't know.
I do like the direction of AEW vs the outsiders as being a theme to get behind going forward in a few different places.
Given Dynamite, not sure why they didn't have Moxley turn at the PPV. Maybe they were trying to get folks to back Hangman during the match, with the things like the fork spot, but fans are too bloodthirsty to see that as a heel move by Mox in such an "anything goes" match.
Danielson's promo about "going home" intrigued me in part because I actually thought that is a defensible and understandable decision in real life - you have a family at home, you have a serious injury history, I'd almost rather see these guys retire early and have me think they'll be able to walk and talk in 20 years. In any case, it sort of vindicated MJF as being right - I think we are supposed to dislike MJF for breaking Danielson's spirit, but since I wince when Danielson does spots around his neck... I don't know.
I do like the direction of AEW vs the outsiders as being a theme to get behind going forward in a few different places.
-
KnightDamien
- Exceeds Text and Quote Limits
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
I imagine the lights on/off thing will start to be used less often for regular appearances as time goes on and it wears thin with fans. I imagine most HoB fans, myself included, still really enjoy it and consider it a core part of how the group is presented. But, like 'Taker's lightning and really long entrances, I think it will start to become more of a 'before a match' thing and not an 'every time they come out' thing.
But totally agree about BD's promo. Really well done and had so much honesty and truth to it that I don't know to what extent I'm being worked.
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Matthews is fantastic. The pop it got when we saw him facing down Omega proved this is something fans want to see.fac wrote: As a Buddy Mathews fan glad he is getting some attention which I think he deserves due to his ring work. I'd like it if HoB could simply walk into the arena for a promo battle once in awhile and not do the lights on/lights off - appear/disappear schtick.
I imagine the lights on/off thing will start to be used less often for regular appearances as time goes on and it wears thin with fans. I imagine most HoB fans, myself included, still really enjoy it and consider it a core part of how the group is presented. But, like 'Taker's lightning and really long entrances, I think it will start to become more of a 'before a match' thing and not an 'every time they come out' thing.
Yeah, I think we were supposed to be cheering for Hangman the entire time, really. The fact that Claudio was so obviously becoming the heel champ of RoH made it pretty obvious early on that we were going to see a turn for basically the entire BCC. Which, barring the 'I'm leaving' thing, begs the question of whether or not Bryan is still even really in the group.fac wrote: Given Dynamite, not sure why they didn't have Moxley turn at the PPV. Maybe they were trying to get folks to back Hangman during the match, with the things like the fork spot, but fans are too bloodthirsty to see that as a heel move by Mox in such an "anything goes" match.
But totally agree about BD's promo. Really well done and had so much honesty and truth to it that I don't know to what extent I'm being worked.
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Just wanted to pop in and mention that I think WWE is still nailing the whole Bloodline story and I am genuinely wanting to see where they go next - it has maybe lost a little momentum as the crowd was ready to have Roman get his comeuppance and Jey or Sami be the one to do it a month ago, but I think they are keeping it close to that high level. As much as I enjoy wrestling as a fun/silly diversion, it doesn't happen all that often where the story gets to the point I am truly invested and really anticipating the outcome. To the point I could see them not do what seems to be the obvious and have Cody win, even though I think the next step is to have Roman have his back against the wall of losing the support of the rest of the Bloodline. But so many directions, just so long as it doesn't end with the status quo - the dynamic has to change, with Roman desperate to get back to the top, or Jey/Jimmy and maybe Solo having gold and Roman not, or Roman retains and Jey finally dethrones him...(or Jimmy or Solo finally does after Roman goes too far against Jey). So many good options. Next year could culminate at WM with Jey v Roman, with the "Tribal Chief" status on the line, with all the Samoans taking sides ahead of time...a Samoan Civil War.
I also watched the Omega v Vikingo match on AEW, which was impressive, but have they actually explained why the BCC are now heels? They may have but making them the "cheap shot/beat up folks after the match" guys makes little sense to me as what caused this change? And then Hangman somehow knows what is happening in the ring while driving the ambulance to the arena, and the BCC run away? And then Callis wants Omega to not trust Hangman for some reason? The whole set of events after that match.... why?
I also watched the Omega v Vikingo match on AEW, which was impressive, but have they actually explained why the BCC are now heels? They may have but making them the "cheap shot/beat up folks after the match" guys makes little sense to me as what caused this change? And then Hangman somehow knows what is happening in the ring while driving the ambulance to the arena, and the BCC run away? And then Callis wants Omega to not trust Hangman for some reason? The whole set of events after that match.... why?
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Ideas like this is why I would not be a good booker. But it would amuse me.
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
Seeing Rey Mysterio's daughter on Smackdown tonight made me kind of wish Mathews was still in WWE, so we could revisit the storyline of Aalyah crushing on him, while Rhea has Dom crushing on her, only to eventually have Rhea and Buddy dump both the Mysterios to date each other (in Kayfabe to match real life)...KnightDamien wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 1:46 amMatthews is fantastic.fac wrote: As a Buddy Mathews fan glad he is getting some attention which I think he deserves due to his ring work.
Ideas like this is why I would not be a good booker. But it would amuse me.
- fac
- Fwoosh!!!!!!!!
- TheFwoosh.com rules: Yes
Post
Re: Pro-Wrestling Discussion
In case anyone is reading this thread, how about some Wrestlemania predictions?
Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes for the Undisputed WWE Universal Heavyweight Championship
The Usos vs. Sami Zayn & Kevin Owens for the Undisputed Tag Team Championships
GUNTHER vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Sheamus for the Intercontinental Championship
Austin Theory vs. John Cena for the United States Championship
Charlotte Flair vs. Rhea Ripley for the SmackDown Women’s Championship
Bianca Belair vs. Asuka for the RAW Women’s Championship
Becky Lynch, Lita & Trish Stratus vs. Bayley, Dakota Kai & IYO SKY
Seth “Freakin” Rollins vs. Logan Paul
Edge vs. Finn Balor inside Hell in a Cell
Brock Lesnar vs. Omos
Rey Mysterio vs. Dominik Mysterio
There is a lot to like on this card I feel.
The outcomes for The Bloodline matches seem linked. I can't see both the Usos and Roman retaining, and I can't see them both losing, even though the Usos losing leading to Reigns berating them, so they abandon him and he loses to Cody makes sense. But I think the Usos retain and Reigns loses clean, as the best story would be the Usos having the gold, while Roman does not, leading to who is the Head of the Table. Especially if they later in the year pull the trigger on Solo getting the IC or US titles. That also lead to Cody maybe putting the titles up separately again, which I get some people dislike, but it lets you have a Face and a Heel champ, split by brand.
I think Gunther loses to Drew, putting Sheamus and Drew back on a collision course, and Gunther can move up to face Cody, and win one of the titles. They kind of foreshadowed this by doing Cody vs Gunther at the end of the RR.
I doubt Theory loses to Cena, unless maybe they can run Cena vs Orton at Summerslam, for bragging rights over who is the GOAT in terms of title reigns? I don't think they will ever "pass" Flair in the World Championship reigns, but a feud between them at the end of their careers would be fun to see.
Ripley has to beat Charlotte. Judgement Day needs to be elevated with some titles.
Belair retains - so you have both Face and Heel Women title holders.
I think Lynch and Lita retain (I think the titles are up for grabs?) but I suspect there will be some shenanigans here, like Lynch gets attacked and can't compete, so Trish takes on the spot, only to find out she orchestrated Lynch's attack? Or turns afterwards? Or costs them the titles and we end up with Becky/Lita vs Bailey/Trish down the line? Or maybe a heel Trish/Lita team makes it to Summerslam, freeing Becky back up for solo stuff, and giving a new team like Raquel/Liv the rub of beating the Hall of Famers.
Seth wins. The Demon wins. Brock wins.
I think Lashley vs LA Knight gets added, or maybe Kross vs Lashley - something should come from the Battle Royal on Friday. Maybe LA gets punked in an impromptu match with a returning star, or he ends up in a match vs the Miz?
I would think that Rey wins this battle - Dominik won't beat his Dad until it is time for Rey to retire.
Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes for the Undisputed WWE Universal Heavyweight Championship
The Usos vs. Sami Zayn & Kevin Owens for the Undisputed Tag Team Championships
GUNTHER vs. Drew McIntyre vs. Sheamus for the Intercontinental Championship
Austin Theory vs. John Cena for the United States Championship
Charlotte Flair vs. Rhea Ripley for the SmackDown Women’s Championship
Bianca Belair vs. Asuka for the RAW Women’s Championship
Becky Lynch, Lita & Trish Stratus vs. Bayley, Dakota Kai & IYO SKY
Seth “Freakin” Rollins vs. Logan Paul
Edge vs. Finn Balor inside Hell in a Cell
Brock Lesnar vs. Omos
Rey Mysterio vs. Dominik Mysterio
There is a lot to like on this card I feel.
The outcomes for The Bloodline matches seem linked. I can't see both the Usos and Roman retaining, and I can't see them both losing, even though the Usos losing leading to Reigns berating them, so they abandon him and he loses to Cody makes sense. But I think the Usos retain and Reigns loses clean, as the best story would be the Usos having the gold, while Roman does not, leading to who is the Head of the Table. Especially if they later in the year pull the trigger on Solo getting the IC or US titles. That also lead to Cody maybe putting the titles up separately again, which I get some people dislike, but it lets you have a Face and a Heel champ, split by brand.
I think Gunther loses to Drew, putting Sheamus and Drew back on a collision course, and Gunther can move up to face Cody, and win one of the titles. They kind of foreshadowed this by doing Cody vs Gunther at the end of the RR.
I doubt Theory loses to Cena, unless maybe they can run Cena vs Orton at Summerslam, for bragging rights over who is the GOAT in terms of title reigns? I don't think they will ever "pass" Flair in the World Championship reigns, but a feud between them at the end of their careers would be fun to see.
Ripley has to beat Charlotte. Judgement Day needs to be elevated with some titles.
Belair retains - so you have both Face and Heel Women title holders.
I think Lynch and Lita retain (I think the titles are up for grabs?) but I suspect there will be some shenanigans here, like Lynch gets attacked and can't compete, so Trish takes on the spot, only to find out she orchestrated Lynch's attack? Or turns afterwards? Or costs them the titles and we end up with Becky/Lita vs Bailey/Trish down the line? Or maybe a heel Trish/Lita team makes it to Summerslam, freeing Becky back up for solo stuff, and giving a new team like Raquel/Liv the rub of beating the Hall of Famers.
Seth wins. The Demon wins. Brock wins.
I think Lashley vs LA Knight gets added, or maybe Kross vs Lashley - something should come from the Battle Royal on Friday. Maybe LA gets punked in an impromptu match with a returning star, or he ends up in a match vs the Miz?
I would think that Rey wins this battle - Dominik won't beat his Dad until it is time for Rey to retire.
