I think I'm at the point where I'm okay with potentially just missing out on figures. I don't think I've bought a single S7 figure that I couldn't have gotten cheaper (even MUCH cheaper) later on. There was kind of that scare after the big clearance event at BBTS that Super7 was reshuffling their production numbers in order to not have tons of lingering stock (remember guys, these are MADE TO ORDER, boutique items that you can only get at BBTS, EE, Amazon, and every collectible and toy store in North America and abroad). So, of course, there was the concern that these might actually start selling out fairly quickly due to those, again assumed, reduced production numbers.
The most recent two waves are still available like.. everywhere? I know Rat King has the chance of being popular, but I'm just going to risk it. I'm tired of paying 80 bucks Canadian for those few figures that mean something to me just to watch them rot on virtual shelves (and real shelves) until they're 25-30-50% off.
Maybe we won't see those deep discounts again. Who knows. But these figures just aren't worth the asking price and it seems like most collectors are wise to that now. Let BBTS sit on them until their price more accurately represents their quality. Or they can sell out and I just won't have a few figures. That's fine too.
I have pretty much zero fear of missing out with any of Super7's products. I'll pay full price for the ones I really want more as a show of good faith more than anything else. When I enjoy one of their figures I'm not as salty about the $55, which is easier for me being in the states. I would definitely not pay import prices for these if I resided out of the US. There are just plenty though where I don't see enough value to pay full price. The new Leo is a perfect example as it's mostly the turtle body we're used to with a couple new parts. It's not worth $55 to me. If he ends up $35 some day then I might bite (provided the people who did pay full price seem happy with the figure), and if he never does that's fine. I don't need it. My list of full price figures is dwindling though and is more or less down to Heavy Metal Raph and a few Playmates only characters that seem unlikely to ever be made now. From 2k3, I'll get Shredder and that could be it. I don't want or need a massive display of figures from that show, just the heaviest of heavy hitters.
I think my commitment to preordering stems from my backtracking on Masters of the Universe Classics. I tried not to get into that line, but things like the TRU DC 2pks and Big Lots! clearance made it easy to pick up a few, and that just led me down a rabbit hole. However, I didn't want to commit to a subscription (I kinda hate that model). So I still wound up missing out on a lot of figures, that I eventually picked up on the aftermarket for inflated prices.
I then wanted figures in the same scale and style from different licenses. And Super7 was doing just that. It was too much for me to resist. So I would preorder waves, almost never directly from them, so I could cancel. But at least I knew that was the MOST I'd be paying for a figure. To my dismay, so many of these figures drop in price if you wait long enough. I haven't been able to take advantage of that, since I've already paid full price. But I just haven't gotten that FOMO out of my system.
See, my commitment to pre-ordering comes from a different place. If I love a product line and want it to continue and I want more of it, I pre-order so initial interest and orders are higher, so there can be commitment to future waves. If literally EVERY customer decides to wait for clearance or discount prices then a line dies and no more product gets made. So, I understand that dedicated and/or savvy customers can wait and find deals on most (though not always all) figures - that approach can ultimately be self defeating if you truly want the product line to continue and flourish.
Toys are my luxury where I choose to spend disposable income - I just spent 4 days in Las Vegas and didn't spend a single cent on gambling or booze... priorities 😝 - so buying on clearance at the risk of damaging a line I want to continue making figures isn't something I'm willing to do. Sales, discounts and clearance prices are for custom fodder or extras fo Toys for Tots... for my collection I pre-order everything I can.
Has anyone seen a single email from Super7 regarding the status of wave 12 after it went into the tooling phase of production back in October? I can't tell if this wave is still on track to release in Feb it seems like they've been very tight lipped since then
@panthercult I think everyone here gets that and knows that if every person waited for a sale then lines would die. We all just have our own priorities and with Super7 they seem to be pretty low for most. I'll preorder the figures I really want to help make sure they still get made, but Super7 doesn't have enough good will built up with me to where I'll preorder something I'm only semi-interested in because I know, more likely than not, the product is going to turn out worse than the render. And even with stuff I like, I preorder through BBTS just in case the product ends up a disaster. At least with them there's usually a window between when people first start getting them and when I can expect to be charged. The last Super7 license I was very invested in was Simpsons so I went all-in on that line and even went with preorders through Super7 directly. The line failing didn't sour me on doing the same with other lines and licenses I really like, but the quality of the product definitely turned me off from Super7 to where there's very few things I'd order from them like that again.
@stoopid_sandwich they have not sent out any other emails regarding the 2k3 turtles and probably won't until the item is nearing completion and they want people to make sure their address on file is good. February was a pipe dream when it comes to Super7 and I don't know what made them think they'd ever hit that window, but their preorder tracker ( https://super7.com/pages/pre-order-status-page) has the wave shipping in June now, which is much more inline with their usual delivery time.
@panthercult I think everyone here gets that and knows that if every person waited for a sale then lines would die. We all just have our own priorities and with Super7 they seem to be pretty low for most. I'll preorder the figures I really want to help make sure they still get made, but Super7 doesn't have enough good will built up with me to where I'll preorder something I'm only semi-interested in because I know, more likely than not, the product is going to turn out worse than the render. And even with stuff I like, I preorder through BBTS just in case the product ends up a disaster. At least with them there's usually a window between when people first start getting them and when I can expect to be charged. The last Super7 license I was very invested in was Simpsons so I went all-in on that line and even went with preorders through Super7 directly. The line failing didn't sour me on doing the same with other lines and licenses I really like, but the quality of the product definitely turned me off from Super7 to where there's very few things I'd order from them like that again.
This is all super fair. I didn't end up pre-ordering any of the Super7 licenses I wasn't heavily invested in as a fan because of the price barrier. I had thought about buying a Hyacinth Hippo and if it were a $25 figure I probably would have done so - but at $55 there was no chance. Likewise with something like Robot Reaper from their The Worst line - semi interesting figure but not a $55 figure for me and not something I needed to support. When that was available for $25 - I pulled the trigger. So I definitely get that aspect.
But for a property that I like and want more of - Thundercats, Silverhawks, Tiger Sharks (I hope) - I pre-order at the full price because I want to support it and I want it to continue to get the full line up out and into my hands. I also pre-order through BBTS though because I don't like the idea of any company holding my money for a full year or more before they send me the product if that doesn't have to be the case.
I get not wanting to support product you view as sub-standard at prices you view as too high. That's totally fair. So if you don't like the Super7 Turtles product enough to pay the full asking price you definitely shouldn't. But, you should not lament when there stops being Super7 Turtles product altogether if too many people take that approach.
For my part, to be very clear; I never lament when S7 cancels product due to lack of sales. I typically laugh about it. Even if it was something I wanted to happen (like how I desperately wanted them to do all of Disney's Robin Hood characters). Also to be clear, and speaking just for myself, I don't really avoid paying full price or pre-ordering Super7 solely because 'they're overpriced.' That's part of the equation, but not the totality of it.
The reality is, I think pre-ordering product sight-unseen sends a message of trust and support for a company's output. To me, it very directly says 'you guys are doing a great job and I will support you based solely on your previous output.'
So, to me, pre-ordering Super7 product, even just buying it at regular price, is outright telling them that you are happy with their product as-is. It's a double-edged sword; if you don't buy the product then they might cancel it and the line dies. If you pre-order and pay full price for stuff, then the company is never going to be motivated to improve because why would they?
It's almost like there's this myth that if we just support product, the companies making the products will just decide to make it even better out of the goodness of their hearts and love of what they do. That doesn't seem to almost EVER be the case, however. And certainly S7 has had PLENTY of time to showcase this passion for quality while customers have dumped countless thousands of dollars into sub-standard, shoddy product. What's changed? Kind of seems like stuff has gotten worse or stagnated. Can't really think of any example of Super7 product getting -better- with time.
They've taken the message loud and clear: people will buy it before it exists, so there's no reason to make sure it's good. Even when it's bad, they'll still pre-order the next round of product with their fingers crossed that it turns out better than the last. And it won't. And when it doesn't they'll pre-order the next round. And the cycle repeats and dozens of waves of product. Super7 knows the routine. They don't give a shit that we complain because those pre-orders keep rolling in.
I was looking at the newest wave of Ultimates and couldn't help but think how...not-Ultimate they are now. The boxes are so empty with FAR fewer accessories than before. Especially that Nomad Leo.
Small amount of Turtle Talk around minute 25 or so. Only noteworthy thing is Brian did tease Heavy Metal Raph and I don't think he'd do that if the figure wasn't coming, though no word on the when part or even any mention of the next wave reveal (which we know is 2k3 and have seen the silhouette teaser for).
It's a double-edged sword; if you don't buy the product then they might cancel it and the line dies. If you pre-order and pay full price for stuff, then the company is never going to be motivated to improve because why would they?
It's almost like there's this myth that if we just support product, the companies making the products will just decide to make it even better out of the goodness of their hearts and love of what they do. That doesn't seem to almost EVER be the case, however.
So I say this not directly to you KD, since you and I pretty much clearly know where each other stand on this subject, but just in general out loud to this idea - I don't pre-order Super7 Ultimates products with the expectation that the product will continue to get better than it has been in the past. I do hope that it maintains the standards it has had in the past for the figures I've liked. For the Super7 lines I've collected - and again, I've only bought a handful of Turtles - I primarily buy their Thundercats, Silverhawks and Conan product currently - the quality has mostly been consistent with my expectations.
I have definitely seen with some of their other lines that the quality has been low to dreadful - I have luckily avoided most of those disasters. I understand the valid frustrations with Super7's practices and pricing. I understand those of you who are done buying and supporting their product. I won't try to convince people who have legitimate issues with the product quality that they should change their mind and support Ultimates. Super7 definitely has significant flaws as a toy company.
That said - MOTU Classics is to this day one of my favorite action figure lines ever made, and to the extent that Super7 Ultimates utilizes similar styling making figures of properties that mesh well with my Classics collection they are going to continue to get my business with those lines. There's not a lot they could do to change that at this stage to get me to quit... maybe if they reduced POA or dramatically altered the body style or scale - but, the likelihood is that they will run out of figures to make profitably before I get tired enough to stop buying.
@panthercult It's all good. We're always cucumber cool with each other.
To clarify - what I meant to say is that if you are a person that doesn't believe S7 figures are good enough (like me), then pre-ordering sends the message that they don't need to get better to deserve your dollars. I didn't mean to say that anyone pre-ordering is doing so with the expectation that the figures will get better. With toy collecting in general I would argue that pre-ordering product regularly is a clear message to any toy company that the product is good enough just the way it is.
Some companies will innovate or improve because they want to, or because they think it will increase sales. Other companies will stagnate because good enough is good enough.
Totally agree that if you think the standard a company has set is a good one, that pre-ordering sends the correct message; that you're happy with the product as-is. Problematically, and this isn't a judgement against anyone, I think a lot of people are unhappy with the standard S7 has set, but also still pre-order mostly due to FOMO. Those are the people I'd like to reach with the message of 'fucking stop pre-ordering product that you don't think is worth your money. It's not going to get MORE worth your money by telling them what a great job they're doing already.'
I will push back just a tiny bit on the meshing with MOTUC point, only because I think this is one of the threads where that statement feels false. Conan and ThunderCats? Absolutely. No argument there. But do Ultimates TMNT, Simpsons, Music, or G.I. Joe fit in with MOTUC? I would argue they absolutely don't, and in fact look absolutely terrible together.
In fact, one of my big complaints early on about the Ultimates format was how unyielding S7 is about employing it when it's absolutely worthless to do so, resulting in uglier, less functional, and more expensive figures than they otherwise could have been. I will argue to my dying day that TMNT Ultimates would have been a better line in virtually all regards if it hadn't tried to be this weird 6.5" 'He-Man-style' line.
But again, if you made the same point in the Conan thread... yup. 100% valid point if that compatibility matters to you because it's absolutely present.
I will push back just a tiny bit on the meshing with MOTUC point, only because I think this is one of the threads where that statement feels false. Conan and ThunderCats? Absolutely. No argument there. But do Ultimates TMNT, Simpsons, Music, or G.I. Joe fit in with MOTUC? I would argue they absolutely don't, and in fact look absolutely terrible together.
In fact, one of my big complaints early on about the Ultimates format was how unyielding S7 is about employing it when it's absolutely worthless to do so, resulting in uglier, less functional, and more expensive figures than they otherwise could have been. I will argue to my dying day that TMNT Ultimates would have been a better line in virtually all regards if it hadn't tried to be this weird 6.5" 'He-Man-style' line.
Oh no - we are, in fact, 100% on the same page about this. I haven't purchased any Simpsons or Disney or Spongebob or G.I. Joe or Music Ultimates... (wait that's not true, I did buy the Czarface figure because that robot fits right in with my Thundercats display)... but also only the smallest handful of TMNT because I agree that those figures didn't need to utilize the Ultimates format and scheme and don't fit with the stuff I like it for.
You and I share this opinion, frankly. It's why I've said all along I wish Super7 had stuck with the Sword and Sorcery and Space motif entirely - rather than try to expand Ultimates to every property Funko is making PoPs for or every license they add to their ReAction line.
Last night I saw that a third party on Amazon had dropped the price of the Party Wagon to $299. With points, I brought the price down to $100 and impulse bought that shit. Should arrive Sunday. I have until then to figure out where I'm gonna park it.
I am getting through a backlog of YouTube videos of late and I turned my attention to this unboxing of wave 11 with Veebs and Kyle from Super7. I'm not really interested in the actual unboxing of the figures, but what Kyle might have to say about the development of each. I did chuckle audibly when he said early in the video that he wasn't involved in QC for this wave, but I digress. Around the 35 minute mark, talk does turn to Heavy Metal Raph and I think he kind of let slip that he might be pretty different from the vintage figure. He kind of stops himself and phrases it as a "What if?" since the figure isn't officially announced, but he did touch on how Heavy Metal Raph is really Hair Metal or Glam Rock Raph. Kyle, being a metal fan, seems to want to go for a different vibe out of the figure.
As a metal fan myself, I totally get it. I have often thought the same in regards to that figure. That being said, I think the Hair Metal style lends itself well to a silly toy design. Finding a heavy metal style is a little trickier. A lot of metal bands just come out on stage in jeans and t-shirts. Rob Halford had his own style, but it's certainly his own thing and you don't want to do Rob Halford Raph. The topic turns to a black metal design, but that might be too niche. I don't know. I'm sort of torn on the subject, but mostly I just want to see the damn thing so I can react to it and know it's definitely coming.
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