Nearly every Super7 TMNT figure I have, I bought at full price. I’ve bought doubles of the original Turtles themselves at discounts, plus a set to keep packaged. I bought Ace Duck on sale. I’m overall very satisfied with how they look, mildly satisfied with how they pose, indifferent about the many accessories included to try to justify the price, and dissatisfied with the original pricing. Fortunately, I haven’t encountered egregious QC issues. I agree that we are paying far more than what these are worth. However, if they manage to improve the overall quality, the price may eventually seem worth it. These are the quality of Marvel Legends at double the price with much less reliable QC and durability. That ain’t right.
I would also like to add that I also collect many other lines from Super7 Ultimates, including some of the old Filmation MotU figures, about 80% of their Thundercats figures, and many of their GIJoe Ultimates so far. There are some stellar winners in there, like Slythe, Monkian, Mumm-Ra the Everliving, Buzzsaw, Blue Grass, Destro. But for each of those, there’s one in the other side of the spectrum. It’s nonetheless pretty satisfying to have these lines existing together in the same style and scale, but there’s still plenty to be desired.
@theknightdamien I take issue with the idea that their quality has taken a nosedive.
I think it's always been a bit hit and miss, especially if you collected lines other than TMNT and MOTU.
I think the quality is essentially the same as what it's always been.
It's just that if you flip a coin, sometimes it comes up heads three times in a row.
And TMNT has had more good figures than other Ultimates lines, I suspect because it plays into S7's strengths.
The first wave of G.I. Joe, the first and second wave of Silverhawks, and Toxic Crusaders wave 3 got good reviews.
The last couple of TMNT waves and G.I. Joe wave 2 had issues with multiple figures. Other figures were fine. Power Rangers got a lukewarm response but the monsters are well received -- just under ordered. I'd rate their Goldar as the best Goldar ever made and it has more range than the Lightning Collection version, sturdier joints, better paint.
I think the problem is that folks keep trying to assign a narrative or a trajectory to this line, particularly when you see insanely deep discounts, product showing up at unexpected retailers like Best Buy, and a WTF wave 10 assortment.
I just don't think there IS a narrative for the most part. It's just coin tosses where the first three waves had a bunch of lucky coin tosses. Which could happen again. I don't think anything planned contributed to waves 1-3 being better or a perceived rise in quality. I think it's just random and always has been.
I think S7 gets too much credit for "improving" for what were just a few lucky breaks back-to-back but that they also take too much flak for getting worse or not improving because people are trying to force there to be a narrative when there isn't any.
They have sculpts started around wave 4 that haven't come out yet and new sculpts rushed out quickly and I'm not sure people could identify which are which.
I've had a lot of conversations that go like this:
Them: Samurai Leo is wobbly.
Me: Haven't these been wobbly since wave 1?
Them: They should improve by now.
Me: Didn't they say that some of the wobble was intentional?
Them: They should have changed their mind based on feedback.
Me: That's clearly not how they do things when it comes to design choices, generally.
Them: I feel like they're getting worse.
Me: I think it's just random. Stop buying waves and cherrypick after you see reviews.
Them: I feel like my collection is pretty complete. I may walk away.
Me: Okay.
Them: The line will die.
Me: From what I can tell, this line sells multiple times what a typical S7 Ultimates line does. It's not great for them if people quit but I'm sure they'll just start making these for 3,000 people then like a traditional Ultimates line and you won't see any on sale.
Them: But I like that Wingnut and Guerilla Gorilla.
Me: Great! Get those!
Them: But I don't want Zak or Karai.
Me: Great! Don't get those!
Them: I think I'm going to quit and call my collection complete.
*Several cycles of this*
Me: Stop buying complete toylines! Get random figures with gaps in your collection! Buy partial waves only!
Them: No! Never!
Me: Then quit complaining when a toyline has a 50% good wave!
Them: I must have them all! But I will get angry when I buy some things I don't want because there's something I want in a wave or disappointed when I miss one good figure in a crappy wave! I can't tell if they're getting better.
Me: There is no narrative! There is no trajectory! Toy companies rarely get better or worse! They just crap out randomness constantly and the best you can hope for with any of them is if you like their design philosophy or if they get a good mold and keep reusing it!
Haven't had a problem with loose joints on toys for 20 years because of this stuff...
Thanks for the recommendation. Still, I should not have to repair a $55 toy fresh out of the box. I also shouldn’t have to buy floor polish.
The black paint on my Jada Ryu’s hair came off fresh out of the box. If I showed that I repaired it with Citadel paint I had lying around, that wouldn’t make the issue any more acceptable.
Also, I agree with KD. I was on the first page of the old thread talking about how excited I was for these figures, even though they were overpriced. I’ve paid to buy several at this point, and they have been disappointing in some places. I dont know why there’s this reflexive backlash to people describing issues they have with the figures.
They just need to fix the hips. That's been my biggest thorn with these figures from wave to wave (and line to line). That tiny plastic pin running through the hip is the worst and it's even more horrible on the huge ass figures like Bebop, Rocksteady, Muckman, etc. It baffles me that they can't learn from how other lines are doing things this many waves in.
I adore this line as a whole and it got me back into collecting in a big way because of how much I loved those vintage designs.
But what frustrates me the most is we haven't gotten a TMNT figure that is perfect within the confines of the Ultimates line.
Wave after wave, there is seems to be something that got overlooked in production (even if we ignore the Vietnam factory fiasco with wave 5).
Even the best figures in the line suffer from it, like Bebop's tiny weapons and rigid hands, or Slash's color, mixmatched belt and unpainted pauldrons.
So many of the figures in this line are at the B+/A- edge for me - they're usually good, but they're always missing one or two things that stop them from being excellent.
And this isn't an issue with just TMNT, but so many of their other Ultimates lines - Toxic Crusaders is a blast, unless you want painted accessories, while Power Rangers are all over the place.
Speaking of loose hips and overall build quality... I got my replacement Don today (since I turned my original one into Undercover Don) and this one might be the best one I own. Everything moves smoothly yet there's enough restistance in the joints so that he can firmly hold pretty much any pose.
Then again, I had little to no issues with my OG Don and Mikey. Same thing with Sewer Surfin' Mikey.
It seems like the enthusiasm for their products is waning by the day and the owner/founder/whatever his title is now is even making remarks about how soft preorders are as if it's a reflection on the industry itself. And I bet there is some contraction industry wide after the COVID boom we saw in collecting spaces, but I wouldn't be surprised if Super7 is feeling it a lot more than some of these other companies.
I want to single this part out because of what absolute horseshit it is. DEMONSTRABLY horseshit, to the point where it's borderline criminal that people aren't calling him out loudly about this any time he even edges around the topic. Please forgive what I'm sure is about to be a rant:
This idea that the industry is in trouble is nonsense. What's in trouble is crooks like Brian Flynn that knowingly sell bad product at high prices. Customers are getting pickier because they not only have less money to spend in this economy, but because all these companies are cranking their prices up way past what is reasonable or what is actually in line with inflation. There's always some stupid, bullshit excuse for why an action figure's price needs to be 20% higher than it was only several months ago, and we're treated like idiots when they blame the .08% inflation that's happened in that same time, with -lower- oil prices and stagnant wages in China. They're full of shit, and people are starting to realize it. And the worst offenders are going to get hit hardest; I.E. - S7.
But more relevant than any of that is something very simple: Skystriker, HISS Tank, Dragonfly, Eternia, Razorcrest, Sail Barge, Whatever That Other SW Ship Is Called, Sentinel, Giant Man, Galactus. Fucking Super7 themselves have managed to sell those customers Brian whinges about a Thundertank, Party Wagon, Snake Mountain, AND a fucking Cat's Lair the size of a compact car. And all of that is on top of those same collectors funding multiple Kickstarters and 'won't get made if we don't get pre-orders' toys every year. And THOSE are on top of the absolute mountain of regular and 'deluxe' items in stores and at specialty available -every month- that collectors are also entirely supporting the existence of.
Brian Flynn, complaining about 'soft pre-orders' and potential issues with the industry, is just absolutely and completely full of shit and needs to be called out on it. Selling toys to grown-ups is a billion dollar industry right now. If you're struggling to get a piece of that, it's not because the market is failing or people don't want to pre-order. It's because your company has become known as an untrustworthy dumpster fire that only still exists because of nostalgia licenses.
Maybe instead of whining, try making a quality product. Just try it. I know you've never done it before, but it's worth having a little go at it, isn't it? See what happens. Worst thing that can happen is you get more successful and are forced to keep making these articulated action figures that you don't actually give a shit about and don't even want to be making, right?
If I am going to get insulted and attacked, for every single post I make, I'm just not going to stick around.
It gets old fast.
The insults have been there, maybe some of them have been edited, but it's been straight up gaslighting.
You guys can enjoy these good times without me.
Don't feed the trolls.
I'd rather go back to enjoying the hobby alone, than fight all day. That's not why I signed up here.
Believe it or not, I have better things to do with my time and my life.
I might drop some pictures in once in a while, but like I said...I've already had enough.
You all can enjoy the endless complaints without me.
You should try to understand that this just reads as sour grapes because you tried to personally attack me and a few members didn't go for it and called you out. You can't play the victim here. It's not going to work. You were in the wrong. But this is Fwoosh. Most people here don't hold grudges. You want to engage with the community, chat about toys, argue over bits and nonsense here and there? Come do it. Just do it honestly, and be prepared that you're not going to like everything that's said to you. Every one of those fellas that just called you out for saying I was trolling you? I'm pretty sure I've argued with every one of those guys at least once. Doesn't mean we were trolling each other or became mortal enemies.
For my part, despite that you've -actually- personally attacked me at least twice now, I don't hold a grudge. I'm not mad now, and wasn't before. Nor do I want to just 'troll you.' I wanted to argue against the points you were making and, in my opinion, the dishonest and inflammatory way you were making them. Wanna come back and argue the actual points? Or just start over? Do it. S'what we're here for. Or don't and take off. Either way, the way this went down is on you.
However, if they manage to improve the overall quality, the price may eventually seem worth it.
Surely to the surprise of many - I agree with this. Given the fact that Hasbro feels completely entitled to charge in the 35 dollar range, or higher, for a 'deluxe' retail figure, it's fair to say that someone smaller than Hasbro (though much, much larger than they are willing to admit) will need to charge a bit more than that for a comparable product (good articulation and lots of accessories) that's also a bit bigger on average, and often better-painted (or MORE painted, I guess). Totally fair.
That goes to the point where sometimes in defending Super7, people will forget who they are defending Super7 against; other collectors that also buy lots of other toys at similar or higher price points to what S7 offers. It becomes absurd to tell people that buy Mezco and SHF figures that they don't like S7 just because of the price, as a flat observation.
If Super7 put care into these figures just at a foundational level; making sure the parts are all engineered/designed correctly and with function in mind, and were deliberate about making sure the factory's final output matched the intended function of those figures, Super7 could be regularly putting out figures that I would argue are 100% worth the price of admission (in relation to what other figures cost, not necessarily what they should cost).
@theknightdamien I take issue with the idea that their quality has taken a nosedive.
I think it's always been a bit hit and miss, especially if you collected lines other than TMNT and MOTU.
I think the quality is essentially the same as what it's always been.
Snipped this part. I did read your entire post, mind. Just didn't want to quote the entire thing because it's me and my post is already so damn long and getting longer by the moment.
You have a fair point. And maybe it's also about how we define 'quality' because that's a very nebulous term. Is quality only about sturdiness of the figure or does it encompass the design/engineering, or also the paint and number of accessories? Hard to say.
What prompted me to say that is wave 5. And maybe that's not fair because it's the first and only wave we have currently from the new non-Chinese factory. But we went from wave 1-4 having some loose joints mostly in the hips and other annoying but relatively minor problems, to wave 5 having two figures out of four be basically junk. So it goes from 'some design flaws/QC issues need to be addressed' to 'half of this wave should have been recalled and manufactured all over again from scratch.' That seems like a huge drop to me. And wave 6 kind of bounced back to 'a normal amount (for S7) of notable QC and design issues, but nothing outstandingly bad). So, again, maybe you're right that there wasn't a nosedive in quality. It just felt that way because Wave 5 was the last one I really paid lots of attention to.
But maybe it's worth arguing that if you start from a place of 'not very good,' then actively choosing not to improve is, in fact, a downturn only because the assumption is that problems can be addressed as feedback is received, so the early problems are more forgivable.
In fact, I'd say that I very much disagree that most toylines/toy companies don't get better or worse. Most lines I currently collect I would argue have actually gotten better with time. Joe Classified, Star Wars Black, Marvel Legends, HACKS, Dragonball SHF. All those lines are, in my opinion, better than when they started. All of those lines trended up, responded to feedback from collectors, and put out a better quality product as they went on. They all still have hiccups and misses, of course. But that doesn't mean there's no trend towards better quality.
Then 4" Joes, toward the end, trended into worse quality when they started releasing drivers with more limited articulation, for example. Then that line died. That isn't to say there's a hard-and-fast rule that every toyline either gets better or gets worse. But plenty seem to. I don't think it's unreasonable, then, to kind of have that expectation for Super7. Especially when so many of the things that could make them better are basically low-hanging fruit. Like 'can I swap this swappable hands without breaking my toy?'
But yeah. You're right, I think, that Super7's quality has been a coin toss from figure to figure since the beginning and it's probably naive and even silly to expect that's going to change at this point. It's still hard, though, when the figure you want most lands on tails, as it were.
I'd describe Super 7's product as having the production values of 20 years ago with sub-par quality and prices 20 years ahead of their time.
Most other lines keeps improving but Super 7's do not, and Super 7 is already behind modern standards.
A bunch are on sale at BBTS today between $20 to $35. With all my gripes about Super7, at these prices, I do think they're worth the money.
I was not quiet about my gripes with Space Cadet Raph, so it feels only fair to say I have almost zero with Robotic Rocksteady. If this figure were $55, I could give it a full endorsement. At $65, it's a bit more dicey since we all know it will eventually be sold for less, but I'm enjoying it now so I don't feel too bad about it. This really is a great figure. My only nitpicks are I wish it had an articulated jaw and some minor tweaks to the design would have improved the articulation a bit. Oh, and if the saw blades on the sword hand could spin that would have been pretty rad.
https://twitter.com/SamhainsGrimm/status/1721605295242170879
Great prices on that sale right now. If you search their regular sale page for Super7 ultimates, or just go to the TMNT page, more show up than just through the front page link. If you were at all tempted by Optimus or Megatron, I think they're well worth it at these prices, as long as you're after something with great shelf presence and not too articulated. I was pleasantly surprised with them, and am kicking myself for not holding off on ordering because I paid full price for Megatron.
Ended up grabbing a Samurai Leo, mostly just to use give his swords a basic repaint (green to gold or maybe red) and use with regular Leo, and grabbed some SW retro figures as well to get the most for my shipping bucks. $6 for a retro Mando? Sure, why not.
Hard not to buy another Slash and Muckman at those prices, even though I don't need em. Dang.
Ended up getting Casey, Slash, Muckman, Baxter and Splinter from the sale.
I only had the Turtles, Shredder and April (found her cheap on ebay), so this will fill out that display. I still want to pick up Bebop and Rocksteady (less so) and think that'd be a pretty solid representation of the line.
And I'd like a Foot Soldier and Krang, but I couldn't pay more than $20 for that Krang and the vintage Foot Soldiers were never a favorite figure.
Out of curiosity, do the Sewer Surfing Mikey heads work with the classic Mikey? At $20 I might pick him up to use those portraits on the classic Mikey body, I prefer them to the new head that comes with the figure.
Never mind, I found the answer on a blog, and they do! That's great, I think I'm gonna pick up him and Ray.
Speaking of which, was Ray Fillet a grail figure for anyone else as a kid? I fell in love with him from the back lineup but he was nowhere to be seen in stores for the longest time. I had dreams about him. Eventually I saw him in person at Toys R Us while I was with a babysitter (a friend of my parents) and my jaw hit the floor. The lady was kind enough to buy him for me, what a gem. Been trying to decide if I wanted this one or the Archie version, but I think my heart is with this one.
Also, if anyone wants to buy a Sewer Surfer Mike body and accessories for a couple bucks LMK.
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