Posted by: @protozoalord

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@theknightdamien You definitely don't come off as a downer, I actually have more respect for a realist approach than complete fantasy. Plus it's inevitable after years of wanting something like this to exist and never having an attempt at it.

Regardless, I do think it's a bit hard to place "gamers" in one set category. Gaming has grown HUGE nowadays, but there's also enough merchandise for the gaming crowd currently (between Figma's offerings, Mcfarlane's various lines, Jada, etc) to say there is at least some demographic for a toyline of an IP in the same vein as BGIII. A lot of the gamers who I'd consider peers (around 20-30) buy collectibles of any character they adore when they can find them. It just all depends, and everyone will have a different perspective on it anyhow.

I do wonder if a full on D&D line could be done by NECA, their throwback figures are going to run out of characters soon, and it'd be a little dumb to kill off a line that seems to be doing well... I wager at some point you could split the line into a video game category especially focused on BGIII, then the more traditional tabletop and novel characters. Trickle out characters every so often.

But for my tastes in figures and scale, I'd prefer to see what would happen in Hasbro put in a full effort. I don't know who those cartoon figures were for (maybe they can offload crates of the clearanced figures to Brazil), and putting full effort into a movie that isn't even out is probably the worst misstep that Hasbro keeps routinely making. Especially because every single one of these movies has bombed as of late.

I appreciate you saying I'm not being a downer. I feel like it sometimes (often?) when I'm trying to be realistic in my expectations. I even bum myself out sometimes.

I definitely agree that 'Gamers' aren't a monolith. But I'm using that term very loosely to basically mean 'people that often play and enjoy games, but are not specifically toy collectors.' As discussed probably too much already, there's definitely a disconnect between people that collect toys and have other hobbies and therefore tend to view their other hobbies through the lens of toy collecting, and people that just... don't collect toys. That doesn't mean people that NEVER buy toys. But people that would never identify themselves as 'collectors' of toys. An important distinction.

For instance, I would say there's a fairly monumental difference between someone that's grown up playing LoZ games and adores Link, and buys Link POP figures and Link Figma figures whenever they see them... and someone that loves Legend of Zelda and will buy an entire assortment of potentially hundreds of figures based on Legend of Zelda games until they have an entire Zelda Universe on their shelves.
The former is a gamer that will buy some toys here and there. The latter almost 100% definitely considers themselves a toy collector and just also happens to consider Legend of Zelda their favorite game series (or not and they're just such a massive toy collector that they'll buy entire universes of whatever they're even reasonably interested in).

In any case.. the latter kind of person is the one you're trying to get with a D&D line. So again, you're not going after 'D&D fans we can convince to buy toys.' Those people are never going to buy a universe of figures, army build, devote entire bookshelves to their toy collection, etc. That's a fantasy (ha ha, see what I did there?). The only people you can get to do that are already toy collectors who -also- really love fantasy and D&D. So I just don't think appealing to something with more public exposure like BG3 or the D&D movie helps, because it doesn't really expand the group you're actually targeting.  If that makes any sense.

I guess there's a potentially simpler way to say this: To make a successful D&D toyline, you need to get toy collectors to care about D&D, NOT get D&D players to care about toys.

Also, I don't expect NECA's line to go on much longer. They certainly don't seem overly devoted to putting it out with any speed. I think the D&D line is more a labor of love (as a lot of NECA products seem to be) than something that's hugely financially successful. NECA is small enough to crank out a few D&D figures a year and not worry too much if they're 'only' selling pretty well and not amazing or anything. But the flipside of that is that NECA isn't really big enough to do multiple concurrent D&D lines and devote tons of resources to it, only to have it sell at 1/4 the rate of TMNT. Even NECA isn't going to consider that worthwhile.

Posted by: @tsi

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NECA isn't interested in Baldur's Gate 3 because it wasn't released between the years of 1978 and 1993.

I laughed probably too hard when I read this. But like.. just because it's funny doesn't mean it isn't also -completely true-.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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I appreciate you saying I'm not being a downer. I feel like it sometimes (often?) when I'm trying to be realistic in my expectations. I even bum myself out sometimes.

That's a natural worry I'd say. Some realism is a necessary evil at the end of the day, though in some situations I myself can't be too realistic without falling down a complete rabbithole.

Won't quote the entire post because long, but well thought out and I mostly agree, but I suppose the true test would be whether or not that audience of "casual collectors" and toy collectors with no IP connection is large enough to help support even a partial domestic line of any gaming IP. Outside Jada, I can't think of any proper attempt at a toyline like that outside obvious ones (Sonic, Mario) and half-assed lines, usually from Mcfarlane. And while I'd say SF has been a success with toy collectors I know, I'm still waiting to see if that translates to an overall success.

I'm surprised that we don't even have official pins, keychains, stickers, plushies, knick-knacks, or... ANYTHING to tap into that demographic of BGIII. An action figure line is certainly a step above that, even collectible figurines and statues would be, but Hasbro is too out of touch with consumer demand of... anything, really. Though I suppose that's what's caused them so much financial loss this last year.

Should BGIII get figures or any proper D&D line happen, it should absolutely be a higher price point (Maybe $40?) line akin to Figma or Epic HACKS focused on specific characters done decently well, and a variety of monster offerings.

@theknightdamien Seconded that you're not a downer; I find your posts fair and well thought-out, and it's not realism's fault that the market's unkind to fantasy figures. And I think you're probably right about the collector/fan divide, which is interesting to me, because action figures could theoretically fall in that amorphous category of Merch that a fandom buys into. If a fandom's already buying shirts and hats and mugs and statues and plushies, why are action figures just that step too far? Like with your Robocop friend, it's kinda wild that he'll buy prop replicas but not have any interest in a figure as a shelf piece. It makes me wonder how Funko Pops managed to get so much general consumer and fandom interest. It might come down to your Link vs. LoZ schema, where Funko's not asking you for a full line buy-in. Just that one character you like.

And granted, this doesn't solve the more specific D&D figure problem, which is similar to what most TTRPG, CCG, and video game figure lines might have: you're competing for dollars with a hobby that's already built on spending.

Weirdly, the fandom that seems pretty immune to this is wrestling, which I think has a far more overlapping Venn diagram of toy purchases with general fandom. Wrestling figures are probably more central to a young fan's early experiences, though, and the figures are such a combination of accessible and cheap that it hits on that Funko ubiquity. And it's got the fighting game roster-completion aspect, where if you buy one wrestler, you're tempted on any connected names.

Comparatively, D&D's in a weird place for action figures in that your personal experience with the game is so personally built and customized that a mass-market figure line doesn't really cover it, even if you're a gamer who might want D&D figures. Forget the generational Dragonlance/Drizzt vs. Vox Machina divide, Hasbro can't make a figure of Your Dude that you've played over a multi-year campaign.

So yeah, it probably does come down to attracting figure collectors, at which point Hasbro's in a weird place where they're running against another fantasy line in a different scale that has indie boutique appeal, and a competing D&D product in a different scale that directly appeals to figure, rather than game, nostalgia. And hell, it's not like any of their D&D product would have happened without the benefit of a movie to tie it into.

Funko Pops are an interesting case study. They're the new Beanie Babies. Or Millennial Hummels. They have such an extensive list of licenses that they've become somewhat ubiquitous. They're more tchotchke than collectible. I think they're also mainstream enough to where they don't carry the same stigma as action figures or what have you.

High-end Baldur's Gate figures would be my preference. I think they'd have to be high-end anyway because they'd need unique sculpts and would sell a relatively small number of units. They'd need to be priced like Figmas or an indie toy line.

The general fantasy line we're talking about has more flexibility. With smart re-use, it could easily replicate G.I. Joe Classified. Unfortunately, although Hasbro is the license holder, I think they're far from the ideal company to take it on. They lack flexibility, creativity, and vision. Like most corporate behemoths, they're increasingly risk-averse and only interested in selling nostalgia.

The more I talk about it, the more I think, "Eh, let's just hope Boss Fight or another indie brand produces some D&D Lite figures soon." I'd rather pay out the nose for something I love than hold my nose at half-hearted efforts.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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(or not and they're just such a massive toy collector that they'll buy entire universes of whatever they're even reasonably interested in)

Hey now... there's no need to attack me personally like this ...  😆 

Well, I caved on Drizzt. Couldn't pass on all of that for $26 shipped. Grandma birthday money is a superpowered enabler and damn, nothing I need for customs is on sale. And Ross was a bust! Hopefully the figure of his normal design goes on sale soon too, it looks a little frumpy but a bit of work and soft goods can probably get it shining.

I'm aiming for a sub-collection of fantasy characters I like, and I'm damn glad he's one I won't have to make a custom of.

Having bought the Owlbears for 50% off or more, these figures are fun hand candy. I am not using them as D&D items as much as mounts for Ewoks or the result of a charm Potter and friends put on Hedwig to hulk out and slam Voldemort around like Loki. They are very nice. I am drawn to the creatures and monsters but realize they are not likely to be embraced by enough people to get more made.

Hook horror I had as a kid and I would have liked that dude.

Oh well. I have Owl bears to enjoy.

Thwipp! 

Finally found a lone Chris Pine figure at Ross - the first time I've seen this character at actual retail. I'd held off because I didn't really need this figure, but he was $4.99 - yes, thanks! 🙂

For all the discussion of what Hasbro did or didn't try with this brand, the fact they never got three of six main characters to retail should not be forgotten. Simon, Holga and Hugh Grant should never have been the only ones available and I'm still curious what the heck happened.

wave 2 of the animated D&D figures are now marked down to $7.49 at target. not only that, they show up in the app with the $7.49 price too.

The animated figures were a dream come true for me and I would have paid whatever Hasbro asked for them.  That said, this effort was just so lackluster.  I'm still hoping that Neca or even Super 7 gets their hands on the animated line next.  I seem to remember a comment from either Neca or Super 7 a while back that stated that might be possible in the future.  Fingers still crossed for something better.

@justice Same, you wait so long for them then they turn out like that??? May as well skip 'em and hope NECA or someone else gets a shot at them before we snuff it because damn, talk about lacklustre.

Yeah -  loved the cartoon, couldn't stomach the figures.

It is interesting since both NECA and Super 7 are currently releasing D&D product in various forms.    Right now NECA is doing 7" figures of some classic D&D characters from the old toy line while Super 7 is doing Reaction figures of characters from the game manuals (I think)...  so it seems like a definite possibility that at least one of them could take a shot at the animated series.   

But given Hasbro's failure at retail I think the most realistic thing is that Super7 does them as Reaction figures and then maybe, down the line,  depending on response,  considers some Ultimates.    I don't think NECA touches them since Hasbro's line crashed and burned so hard.  

I don't think I'll ever buy a ReAction figure, and I'm skeptical that an Ultimates! version would be any better than what we got. Taller, sure, and with a lot more stuff to store in a box, but "I hope Super7 does a more detailed sculpt with more paint and better articulation" is an empty dream. 

Meanwhile, I would pay premium price for NECA cartoon figs done in scale and style of their current ones. 

It really seems that Neca's current D&D figures are doing well.  I think Randy and crew are savvy enough to realize that Hasbro's figures were low effort and full of QC issues so a lot of people didn't get them.  Done right they could blow Hasbro's efforts out of the water.

I remember now that it was Randy who made the comment that they couldn't do animated series figures at this time (around the time Neca announced their current D&D line I believe).  The first time I asked Randy on Twitter years ago he had a two word response for me and that was "too niche", so I was surprised to hear that maybe things had changed because of the "at this time" line and that maybe Hasbro wanted first shot at the animated series and once they were done, then someone else could take a shot at it.

Posted by: @fletch

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I don't think I'll ever buy a ReAction figure, and I'm skeptical that an Ultimates! version would be any better than what we got. Taller, sure, and with a lot more stuff to store in a box, but "I hope Super7 does a more detailed sculpt with more paint and better articulation" is an empty dream. 

Meanwhile, I would pay premium price for NECA cartoon figs done in scale and style of their current ones. 

I don't like to pick on smaller companies, but it seems like Super7 largely puts out junk. If you're willing to give them a pass on articulation, more power to you. That isn't me. I'd only ever give them my money as a stopgap for something like decent Adventure Time figures, and even that would be begrudging.