As has been alluded to with Drizzt, it's not like the guy has had a major media tie-in over the last three(?) decades. Snake Eyes has shown up in movies and toy lines over that time. I went back and read one of the R.A. Salvatore books because I wanted an excuse to buy Drizzt. Even that was difficult to track down.
Because the D&D fandom is so fractured (some table-toppers, some old heads, some newbies), I don't think one approach is going to hit the mark. I think something closer to Marvel Legends--with inspiration pulled from D&D history--is the ticket. Something like this:
Wave 1 -
Mind Flayer
Generic Knight
Generic Monk
Jaheira
Edgin (Chris Pine movie character--only if they hadn't made him already)
Melf
Build-a-Monster: Kobold
The Build-a-Monster could also be a deluxe release if it makes more sense to pack these guys out with accessories.
Between NECA's success and Mythic Legions, I refuse to believe there's no market for these things.
Between NECA's success and Mythic Legions, I refuse to believe there's no market for these things.
I think that's the thing though.... I don't think there's a Hasbro Retail size market there. Mythic Legions is successful - sure, but it isn't Hasbro retail successful. The sales numbers required to make it worthwhile for Hasbro are likely SO much higher than for even NECA. I think the best bet for quality D&D figures - for which I do think there is a viable market - is for Hasbro to license the property out to another entity who can operate with smaller margins. Expand the NECA partnership, license out to McFarlane (they already appear to be partnering on some Page Punchers items)... personally I wouldn't even mind Super7 but I know others here would riot. Regardless - I don't think D&D can sell enough figures to make a Hasbro retail line viable for Hasbro - but I do think if they were to license the property someone could do a solid figure line.
I suppose it depends on the specific definition of "media tie-in", because Drizzt is still actively getting books by R.A. Salvatore, a guide book and spin-off webtoon, and his series is getting full reprints starting next year. He's definitely no Snake Eyes, but despite it all he's a mainstay.
I actually really like your idea of a wave, though I'd probably keep to one generic character per wave (multiple army builders would probably eat into each other's sales) and replace that with one character per wave for that BG3 fandom crowd. First wave, I'd go Astarion. Wave two I'd go Shadowheart.
I suppose for a general wave structure, I'd go:
-Iconic D&D monster
-Nostalgia pick (1e, the old toyline, realistic renditions of the cartoon cast, etc)
-Generic army builder
-Baldur's Gate 3 standout
-Long-withstanding characters (Jaheira, Strahd, Elminster, etc)
-Misc slot for wild cards and movie characters. (Profion...)
Between NECA's success and Mythic Legions, I refuse to believe there's no market for these things.
I think that's the thing though.... I don't think there's a Hasbro Retail size market there. Mythic Legions is successful - sure, but it isn't Hasbro retail successful. The sales numbers required to make it worthwhile for Hasbro are likely SO much higher than for even NECA. I think the best bet for quality D&D figures - for which I do think there is a viable market - is for Hasbro to license the property out to another entity who can operate with smaller margins. Expand the NECA partnership, license out to McFarlane (they already appear to be partnering on some Page Punchers items)... personally I wouldn't even mind Super7 but I know others here would riot. Regardless - I don't think D&D can sell enough figures to make a Hasbro retail line viable for Hasbro - but I do think if they were to license the property someone could do a solid figure line.
Agreed. It's not the complete lack of a market that's the issue, it's that the size of the market doesn't really interest Hasbro. They look at the sales of the D&D campaign materials and compare that to their figures and wonder what's the point if it's not adding a ton of value to the brand? Their consumer products division had a bad 2022, and possibly worse 2023, but Legends and Star Wars still performed well and that's what D&D will also be compared to. And those brands already have a bunch of tools they can reuse while D&D requires some start-up expenses. I think the Drizzt figures have been a test case and if they had sold out we might have received more. Hopefully they do find a partner they can license it out to. That Boss Fight Studio Red Sonja looks pretty awesome, I'd love to see them get a shot though I would expect Hasbro's licensing demands to be too high for them.
I stand by my statement that Baldur's Gate 3 action figures would sell, but maybe not at mass retail. I think a more collector focused line, similar to NECA, might be better considering this is an adult property.
I just want my BG3 action figure dreams to come true 😥
Between NECA's success and Mythic Legions, I refuse to believe there's no market for these things.
I think that's the thing though.... I don't think there's a Hasbro Retail size market there. Mythic Legions is successful - sure, but it isn't Hasbro retail successful. The sales numbers required to make it worthwhile for Hasbro are likely SO much higher than for even NECA. I think the best bet for quality D&D figures - for which I do think there is a viable market - is for Hasbro to license the property out to another entity who can operate with smaller margins. Expand the NECA partnership, license out to McFarlane (they already appear to be partnering on some Page Punchers items)... personally I wouldn't even mind Super7 but I know others here would riot. Regardless - I don't think D&D can sell enough figures to make a Hasbro retail line viable for Hasbro - but I do think if they were to license the property someone could do a solid figure line.
Agreed. It's not the complete lack of a market that's the issue, it's that the size of the market doesn't really interest Hasbro. They look at the sales of the D&D campaign materials and compare that to their figures and wonder what's the point if it's not adding a ton of value to the brand? Their consumer products division had a bad 2022, and possibly worse 2023, but Legends and Star Wars still performed well and that's what D&D will also be compared to. And those brands already have a bunch of tools they can reuse while D&D requires some start-up expenses. I think the Drizzt figures have been a test case and if they had sold out we might have received more. Hopefully they do find a partner they can license it out to. That Boss Fight Studio Red Sonja looks pretty awesome, I'd love to see them get a shot though I would expect Hasbro's licensing demands to be too high for them.
I'm not blaming you or disagreeing with you at all, but it's so gross that these things have to be talked about in this way. Market share, brand value, shareholder returns, etc. It makes me double down on the smaller entities who are in it for more than just profit.
@tsi agreed. It’s all a turn-off. I’m much happier buying from independent toy producers which is why I’d love to see BFS get a shot at a big license.
I was just literally playing BG3 thinking "I wonder if this game has hit the media zeitgeist enough to get action figures." The cast is very action-figure-y, and if the very core companions sell you've got a second wave with the later companions, the villains are very toyetic, and some of the NPCs fill in that type of generic dindy monster role a lot of us want from this line. I don't think anyone knows for sure but the fandom feels very thirsty (word choice intentional) for BG3 merch.
Hasbro has done Playstation Spidey and Gaming Greats Star Wars. They just seem, as a company, to have a deeply flawed ability to figure out what will sell for D&D outside of the books themselves (and can't seem to be happy even with THAT success).
Of course they had zero faith BG3 would be as big as it is given that there's almost no merch for it, so it'd be a while before we saw an Astarion or Karlach figure. They'd have to be racing from behind. (I just hope they don't give the license to McFarlane. I bought his Critical Role figures and they were fragile, sloppy, and he couldn't even complete the seven main characters... McFarlane's weird tendency to leave unfinished casts is wild to me. Three missing CR leads, no Yennifer or Triss in his Witcher line... At least Hasbro managed to get the whole D&D movie cast out in roughly a year.)
Maybe Baldur's Gate 3 will endure, but I think video game toy lines are like movie toy lines. If you don't strike while the iron's hot, you'll lose a huge chunk of your prospective audience. I see it reflected with MCU stuff all the time. How many folks sell their figures off a couple years after the movie or say "I would've bought X if they released it when the movie came out"? There are the core buyers who are always interested, like the MCU fans calling for Hasbro to go back and hit the characters they missed or Mass Effect fans still clamoring for figures years later. Still, I think the further you get away from release, the less likely it is that you'll see merchandise.
The fact that we haven't even seen an announcement months after the game became one of Steam's most-played games tells me we aren't getting figures.
To me, the bigger miss is hoodies, keychains, cups, etc. Gamers might not buy toys, but they like collectibles and gear. You can turn around a t-shirt design pretty quickly. I'm flabbergasted that Wizards of the Coast hasn't set up an online store for clothing and the like. Etsy is eating their lunch with some fun unlicensed stuff. People who love BG3 love BG3. I want something, but going unlicensed is my only option.
It is ultimately about when the iron is hot, but in this case the game is still ongoing with regular patches and hints at DLC. If that DLC is one of those expansions that is practically a game in of itself (which would not surprise me given previous Baldur's Gates and Neverwinter Nights), I'd wager the time to release a new figure line would be to coincide with that.
Otherwise, I'd say let's hope that one of these third parties making nonstop Warcraft orcs hear the cries of the many lusting for merch.
I've already tooted my horn on this topic way when probably enough... but anecdotally everyone in my DnD group would by a figure of at least their character, or someone who was close enough to be their character and wasn't sculpted to be Chris Rock or Chris Evans or anyone famous. Many are figure curious, and a couple people in my wife's campaign have gotten into collecting via her showing off her figures (I converted her)
Action figures in general don't have the same onramp into the hobby that other hobbies do, unfortunately, though I think the market has a lot of potential converts.
Regardless, though, the big toss up is if a line would do Hasbro numbers, but TBH I don't know how many Hasbro lines actually do Hasbro numbers.
What I will say is that I am an action figure collector that not only doesn't have nostalgia for GI Joe, I disliked the show as a kid, and I don't like military toys, I didn't like the IDW comics, I don't get particularly excited for ninjas (unless they are turtles) or shirtless dudes with mustaches and vests. But I own about ten Classified figures in SPITE of their IP because the figures are so darn fun, and I have a Dragonfly on the way. The accessory load out, the animal companions, the articulation, the fun factor, the price, especially because mainstream lines go on sale... all woo'd me. The Snake Eyes and White Timber set is one of my favorite pickups ever. Absolute hand candy, I can't stop playing with them. And I know I'm not alone... I've read similar posts from people on other forums, that they collect Classifieds in spite of being GI Joe ambivalent.
Nostalgia gets people, sure, but a big part of Classified's success has been because of the points I mentioned above, and part of the reason those points exist is because Hasbro can fold licensing expenses into extra value to the customer, similar to DnD. This would bring other figure collectors to the line.
They just have to actually be good figures with good designs, lots of playability and value. DnD has enough brand recognition at this point to draw people in, it just might not have nostalgia. But then again, people do have nostalgia for fantasy archetypes...
To connect this to a larger conversation about the industry, I do wonder what the next five years will bring. 2018 onward seems to have brought such a rush of product with every IP under the sun being figure-a-fied. There are exceptions, but I'm seeing everything from Biker Mice from Mars to Strawberry Shortcake in figure form. But figures have also gotten really, really good—I not only have shelf representations for characters I love, I have definitive shelf representation, as in I can't imagine any company making better versions than what I have, or making something better enough for me to think it's worth replacing, whereas the last era saw these characters hit the market again because previous versions were sub par.
Will the quality of figures go up enough to warrant 2.0s, 3.0s, 4.0s etc of the same characters? Is there a ceiling there, a point where the figure can only get better if the cost goes up astronomically? Will the future of collecting have a bigger space at the table for generic lines once all popular IPs are spent?
What D&D will always have working against it is just that the fanbase has never really associated the brand with action figures. GI Joe is a toyline first and foremost, there are fans still collecting today who were in the 70s, and there will always be some appetite for more toys. Hasbro has to convince D&D fans who have been happy with books, miniatures, dice, etc. that they really need to add some figures to their collection. It's not impossible, but it's costly, takes actual work, and probably won't happen overnight. Does Hasbro, who is not in a great financial situation these days, want to do all of that legwork to create a flourishing D&D line? I don't think so, but maybe they'll surprise me. As someone who wouldn't mind some D&D figures, I'm hoping they just look to license the brand to someone else to make a truly expansive line of monsters and characters from the popular books. As long as it's not Super7.
Every word of this is pretty much bang on. It's what we've kind of been talking about this entire time - D&D isn't 'toys.' It's a game that has always been a game to people. The 'merch' for D&D is the two things D&D is built on; gaming accessories and stories. You can sell D&D books/movies/video games, or you can sell D&D miniatures, maps, and gear for playing the game. Anything outside of that is a way harder sell to actual gamers.
For the 'does Hasbro want to do the legwork' thing; I'm gonna let everyone that hasn't been into D&D for the past 25-30 years in on something you probably just don't know. Hasbro doesn't care about D&D. Hasbro doesn't value D&D or even consider it one of their main brands. Because D&D doesn't move merchandise and NEVER has. Wizards of the Coast, pre-Hasbro, put a LOT of money into advertising and creating D&D as a brand to onboard new players, and it worked. 3rd Edition (the first under WotC) was massively successful. And what did it sell? Books. To people that want to play D&D.
Hasbro has never put that kind of energy into D&D ever since they bought WotC, and has actively expressed a disinterest in doing so internally. It's really important to understand, when talking about whether Hasbro would invest in a D&D line of toys, that Hasbro doesn't even really want to invest very much in D&D as a GAME - the main thing D&D is.
Hasbro, at its heart, is a company with no vision. It's a bunch of absolute fucking idiots running the show, with NO concept of how to capitalize on the many things they own beyond just making more of whatever they've already been doing or MAYBE trying to squeeze a movie out and then pissing themselves in anger when it isn't a billion-dollar success story and doesn't get the hype of Barbie (because Hasbro decided not to put ANY effort or funds into promoting it).
No shade to the people working in the trenches and making cool toys. But the top level of Hasbro is just worthless schmucks. Can D&D be a massive, global power-brand that can sell toys, video games, books, movies, and TV shows? Absolutely. Will it be? Probably not while Hasbro owns it, no.
Hell, I just bought my first physical dice this year.
Mazeltov!
To your later points; it's actually relevant that Drizzt was a main character in a video game literally when the Drizzt figure was released. He was still regularly appearing as the main character in current books being published even right up through this year. He was about as 'public conscious' as a character can get without being part of a movie or TV show. Which is particularly relevant because there's that push to make like.. BGIII figures and I just don't know if that works. BGIII is massively popular.... with gamers. With lots of D&D players. Not with 'people who typically buy action figures.' Because the kind of people, mostly, playing BGIII already know who Drizzt is and chose not to buy the figure, apparently.
I think it would be really interesting to see how well the Beholder and Owlbear figures have done for Hasbro because I think that's the truest test of how well-received a regular ol' D&D action figure line might be.
What I will say is that I am an action figure collector that not only doesn't have nostalgia for GI Joe, I disliked the show as a kid, and I don't like military toys, I didn't like the IDW comics, I don't get particularly excited for ninjas (unless they are turtles) or shirtless dudes with mustaches and vests. But I own about ten Classified figures in SPITE of their IP because the figures are so darn fun, and I have a Dragonfly on the way. The accessory load out, the animal companions, the articulation, the fun factor, the price, especially because mainstream lines go on sale... all woo'd me. The Snake Eyes and White Timber set is one of my favorite pickups ever. Absolute hand candy, I can't stop playing with them. And I know I'm not alone... I've read similar posts from people on other forums, that they collect Classifieds in spite of being GI Joe ambivalent.
Nostalgia gets people, sure, but a big part of Classified's success has been because of the points I mentioned above, and part of the reason those points exist is because Hasbro can fold licensing expenses into extra value to the customer, similar to DnD. This would bring other figure collectors to the line.
They just have to actually be good figures with good designs, lots of playability and value. DnD has enough brand recognition at this point to draw people in, it just might not have nostalgia. But then again, people do have nostalgia for fantasy archetypes...
I think it's important to keep this in perspective, though. What you're saying, at its core, is this: I am an action figure collector and I buy good action figures. It's not revelatory. And it's actually not the same thing as someone that doesn't even care about action figures buying them 'because they're really good.' I buy HACKS figures. The regular HACKS line isn't even connected to a brand or property. I buy them because they're cool action figures and I am an action figure collector.
Yes, you, a person that doesn't care about G.I. Joe has bought Joe toys because the toys were so good. But are you buying those special G.I. Joe sneakers? If 80s Tees or whomever produces some really high quality G.I. Joe t-shirts, are you gonna be rockin' those to work?
You really can't turn people who don't care about action figures into collectors by making 'really good figures' any more than you can turn people that don't care about overpriced, hideous footwear into 'sneaker collectors' by making a REALLY good pair of sneakers. Another good example is statues. I am not a statue collector, but there are statues out there of things I absolutely fucking LOVE. But I don't own them. 'Cause I don't collect statues and don't care about statues. The same way plenty of poeple don't collect or care about action figures.
Definitely, you can make an action figure collector buy a really good action figure even if it's from a property they don't like. Because that person is already actively looking at and interested in action figures.
But I just assume every Warhammer player is sitting on a pile of Nazi gold, which explains both their resources and personal ideologies.
Fuckin' LOL.
You're probably not wrong about Drizzt not -really- being 'the face' of D&D anymore due to how a lot of current players or fans have come into it. But here's the thing.. it REALLY doesn't look like those Vox Machina figures have sold very well, either. And if Vox Machina and Drizzt aren't the faces of D&D for new and old fans respectively then clearly I don't know D&D.
I think action figure collectors just really struggle with understanding how much of a minority we are even within traditionally 'nerdy' spaces. No matter how many times random new lines or video game figures fail to sell or don't support ongoing lines or whatever, we're always surprised like 'but it's such a popular thing!' BioWare's two biggest games got single-series failed lines. Red Dead Redemption 2 and GTA5 are some of the best selling games in fucking HISTORY and have NO (legitimately licensed) toys. There's a reason for this.
I know and have known throughout my life a lot of history nerds. Like... dudes like me that talk about the entire history of specific types of swords, critique movie armor for having the tassets be in the wrong place, WEAR armor, study historical sources to learn how to fight like actual historical people did, and are otherwise just utterly immersed in stuff like knights and hoplites and what-have-you.
Do you know what an absolutely tiny percentage of those people collect history-related action figures?
We, as toy collectors, just need to be aware of this and stop looking at the world through the lens of someone that already likes and actively wants action figures to understand that no matter what you base your action figures on, they're probably only ever going to appeal to action figure collectors.
Right, I mean the argument for or against the viability of our imaginary DnD line basically boils down to:
1.) Are there enough action figure collectors that are interested in generic sword and sorcery, fantasy, or medieval figures, that may include specific DnD characters from the mythos as part of the lineup, but mainly focus on a variety of character classes and races, loaded out with accessories and articulated on par with the quality of a line like GI Joe Classifieds, with creative pack ins, "vehicles", animals, monsters etc?
2.) Are there enough DnD fans/players that either collect figures already or would pick up figures if they were marketed to (maybe through podcasts/dnd websites/branded dnd content) and readily available at places like Target?
3.) Do numbers from 1+2 equal more or less than the equivalent numbers for brands like Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones, etc., meaning they would bring in enough buyers to incentivize a big company like Hasbro to produce figures and keep the line going, vs a smaller company like NECA which I guess can make do with a smaller audience?
4.) How much incentive is there to make figures for something you own, vs paying out a licensing fee? Pound for pound, how much $ do you get to pocket, and would that significantly factor into their decision making process?
For me, the answers are 1.) yes 2.) yes 3.) not totally sure, but intuition tells me yes 4.) I'd think that yes, owning the IP outright must make things easier across every level of production.
Understandably there are a lot of different answers to those four points though, and it's interesting reading everyone's takes on DnD. And I personally don't have much faith in Hasbro's "vision", if they even have one. Personally I think this line would print gold if you have the right talent behind it, which is admittedly a big "if."
@hopethisworks I think those questions kind of conflate with each other, right? The question of 'are there enough collectors' relates directly back to 'enough for which company?' And this is pretty much exactly what's been chatted about a lot here, and I get the impression most people agree; there is enough interest in something like this to be worthwhile for a small company, and there doesn't seem to be enough interest for a big company.
The question mark is probably the 'moderate size' companies like NECA. They're doing D&D stuff, but they also don't seem to be cranking those out like they do TMNT or Predators, or random film stuff. So obviously the market for the D&D stuff isn't enough to make it a priority there.
And for smaller companies, I think if you look at BFS and Four Horsemen this is borne out; it just makes more sense to do your own 'generic' fantasy than it does to pay a licensing fee to make very similar stuff. There's also the small matter that just because Hasbro doesn't feel like the money is there to bother, it doesn't automatically mean they're willing to let someone else do it for a fee. I know Catrina over at Boss Fight is a huge Dragonlance fan. I feel like if that toy license were easy and relatively inexpensive to get - they'd already have it. But that's speculative, of course.
I feel like I come off as such a downer here. Maybe I am overly pessimistic about this - as someone that would love a D&D line based on the general aesthetic of D&D art over the last 40 years. But I just can't convince myself there's any meat on this bone. Hasbro doesn't seem committed enough, interested enough, or smart enough to make it work, and they also don't seem all that interested in licensing it out OR no one is all that interested in acquiring that license.
Time will tell.
Nah, you're not a downer at all! I come here for toy discussions and appreciate everyone's opinion, even if I have a different POV!
Heck I'd be happy if anyone did a 1/12 line of fantasy characters on par with Classifieds, whether it's DnD based or not. I love the Legions I have, but I want something more at home with other 6" scale figs, with a bit better articulation and accessory load outs. Particularly something more adventuring themed, less focus on improbably huge and too ornately designed swords, and more on traveling gear, grappling hooks, instruments, treasure, traps, etc.
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