- Arms, boots/legs re-painted
- shield re-painted with texture (hammered look)
That repaint looks marvelous.
I have been able to get both the Owl Bears now and they are wonderful! I see so much fun in these. I primarily got the brown one as a mount for my Ewoks. He looks a bit cartoony with them but it seemed a good piece for some crossover fun. The Doric Owl Bear I know just what to do.
Thwipp!
That repaint looks marvelous.
Thank you much, Prophet. dying to get the brown owl bear but i have so much figures on my list. Dont know when ill get to him. good idea about the Ewoks though.
I'm real late to this discussion, but I do think a full DND line could work at a Hasbro scale, but I really do not think just a line of generic fantasy dudes would sell at that scale. My personal idea would be to have waves of named characters and monsters from various DND media, but include accessories and alternate parts to make other characters, maybe generic characters. If you make a line of good figures with a wide variety of options, people can and will buy it even if they don't know the characters. Joe has proven this, but the only question is if it can transfer over to a fantasy setting as well.
I am honestly sad that BG3 characters do not have figures yet. I am around 40 hours in, just hit act two, and really want all the companions as action figures.
Not only that, but outside of the BG3 Collector's Edition (sold out for months), there's nothing at all. No merch to speak of. Somebody at Wizards of the Coast is asleep at the wheel.
I think you're largely right about the nostalgia factor, but I would argue that Joes are punching well above their weight for replicable reasons.
If you use BBTS's "Best Sellers" drop-down menu, G.I. Joe is the first brand listed. They have hardly any film or TV presence, yet they're above Marvel, Star Wars, TMNT, etc. I haven't purchased any G.I. Joe figures, but I've been damn tempted several times, and I'm decidedly not a military guy. A few times for fodder and a few times because Hasbro's G.I. Joe team is putting out some of the coolest shit on the market. Sure I know Snake Eyes, Stormshadow, Sexy Cobra Librarian, and Metal Mask Man, but I'm interested because the Snow Guy looks sick and comes with a ton of great shit. If Hasbro put out D&D-themed figures at G.I. Joe-quality with a ton of accessories, people would buy them.
I don't think I'll win any friends by saying this, but Mythic Legions are mid. (You can fight me on that, but the articulation is subpar at best.) Plus, they're 7". There aren't any high-quality 6" fantasy figures on the market. They wouldn't sell Marvel Legends or G.I. Joe Classified numbers, but I think they could more than support their own weight. Throw in some Baldur's Gate characters and the likes of Warduke and you've got a successful line on your hands.
Okay.. it's been like two months but somehow I missed this post and I apologize.
I'm not sure the success of Joes is replicable. I mean, yeah, you could definitely replicate the formula of 'put together a GREAT looking toy with good accessories.' But let's not forget that Joe got to the point it's at after a fair bit of patience from collectors. Those same hiccups on a D&D line would have it dead before it started. That indicates, to me, that people were hungry for 6" Joes in a way they probably just aren't for D&D and probably never would be.
When you compare Joe with Star Wars, Marvel, TMNT... we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room that Star Wars has been ongoing for a LONG time now and is mostly just kind of self-sustaining. It's probably not picking up tons of new fans, and in fact it's PROBABLY on that declining end of the action figure lifespan where it's losing people that are basically done because they have what they wanted. After all, that is why we keep getting 'better' Vaders and 'better' Lukes, etc. Trying to keep those people coming back that maybe aren't interested in Mandalorians and pre-ANH rebels.
Marvel is in the same boat where they're trying to cling to collectors that have probably been on board for a decade or in some cases decadeS. Gotta keep putting out better Wolverines and Captain Americas in the hope that those people will come back for more than just the couple characters per year they feel they're 'missing' from their collection while there's an ever-dwindling set of 'regulars' that still buy everything or most things, as well as the defined split between 'comic' collectors and 'MCU' collectors further splitting the 'must have it alls' from the 'I'm wrapping my collection up soons.'
Joes are still fairly fresh and new, in an expression that's only existed for a few years now, from a brand that has basically died the hard death twice now. There's no current sense of continuation here. This is essentially a whole new line for a beloved brand and anyone that's interested is probably getting all of their favorite characters just now for the first time, so a higher percentage of collectors of the line are still in for everything, or a lot of things.
That is to say, I still would say it's heavily based on nostalgia for the characters combined with getting them in this way for the first time ever. Let's see how many people go back to the well for the tenth Snake Eyes. Eventually the sales will slow, but right now Hasbro has a LOT of very popular characters they can put in the line for the first time ever, and that's going to keep this line popular for another couple of years, I expect.
Long-winded way of saying that, in my opinion, even if a D&D line replicates what makes the Joe figures good, it almost definitely can't replicate why the majority of people are interested enough to even know how good they are. Any line of really good figures is going to have fans, but I don't think that translates to Joe-level success on its own. And as I've said before, I think the nostalgia for D&D fans is art, dice, adventure modules... etc. We actually SEE this in play in the gaming community with fairly successful D&D clones based on earlier editions of the game, remakes of old adventures/supplements, etc. That's what D&D fans are nostalgic for -- action figures of generic villain types or hero archetypes? I think that appeals solely and specifically to fans of cool toys, and there's just not enough of us to support a line from a major company.
OR I'm totally wrong and stupid. That's also a distinct possibility.
Also.. Mythic Legions being 'mid' is probably too kind. Granted, I haven't owned one since the FIRST figures they made. But those figures sucked. All the joints got loose almost immediately, the articulation didn't function in the more important spots, parts of the structure of the figures looked pretty bad, the proportions were off... they just weren't good.
The new.. what is it... Mark IV knight body?... looks like it's pretty cool, though. But the line as a whole is still extremely derivative. And, as I've said before, it looks like they mostly just steal artwork from DeviantArt and Google Image Search and make figures of what they find. Hell, some of their fantasy weapons designs look like they were outright stolen from an old friend of mine whose work was posted all over the place online maybe 15 years ago and is still easy enough to find in the usual places. Further, their entire 'Cosmic Legions' line basically looks like a rip-off of the designs that came out of Paizo's sci-fi version of their Pathfinder setting; Starfinder. Look it up and check the similarities in some of that stuff. So... it may not win you friends to say their figures are 'meh' - but you've always got a friend in me on that one.
I would love to agree that Hasbro could do well on a D&D line by peppering in named characters from the BG series, the old toys, etc. But realistically? They couldn't even sell out on a VERY nice Drizzt/Guen two-pack. He's basically THE D&D character. If you can't sell him, I don't know what hope there really is.
Further, their entire 'Cosmic Legions' line basically looks like a rip-off of the designs that came out of Paizo's sci-fi version of their Pathfinder setting; Starfinder. Look it up and check the similarities in some of that stuff. So... it may not win you friends to say their figures are 'meh' - but you've always got a friend in me on that one.
I see a decent amount of ideas taken from their (deliberately?) failed PowerLords line, too.
What D&D will always have working against it is just that the fanbase has never really associated the brand with action figures. GI Joe is a toyline first and foremost, there are fans still collecting today who were in the 70s, and there will always be some appetite for more toys. Hasbro has to convince D&D fans who have been happy with books, miniatures, dice, etc. that they really need to add some figures to their collection. It's not impossible, but it's costly, takes actual work, and probably won't happen overnight. Does Hasbro, who is not in a great financial situation these days, want to do all of that legwork to create a flourishing D&D line? I don't think so, but maybe they'll surprise me. As someone who wouldn't mind some D&D figures, I'm hoping they just look to license the brand to someone else to make a truly expansive line of monsters and characters from the popular books. As long as it's not Super7.
I think you're largely right about the nostalgia factor, but I would argue that Joes are punching well above their weight for replicable reasons.
If you use BBTS's "Best Sellers" drop-down menu, G.I. Joe is the first brand listed. They have hardly any film or TV presence, yet they're above Marvel, Star Wars, TMNT, etc. I haven't purchased any G.I. Joe figures, but I've been damn tempted several times, and I'm decidedly not a military guy. A few times for fodder and a few times because Hasbro's G.I. Joe team is putting out some of the coolest shit on the market. Sure I know Snake Eyes, Stormshadow, Sexy Cobra Librarian, and Metal Mask Man, but I'm interested because the Snow Guy looks sick and comes with a ton of great shit. If Hasbro put out D&D-themed figures at G.I. Joe-quality with a ton of accessories, people would buy them.
I don't think I'll win any friends by saying this, but Mythic Legions are mid. (You can fight me on that, but the articulation is subpar at best.) Plus, they're 7". There aren't any high-quality 6" fantasy figures on the market. They wouldn't sell Marvel Legends or G.I. Joe Classified numbers, but I think they could more than support their own weight. Throw in some Baldur's Gate characters and the likes of Warduke and you've got a successful line on your hands.
Okay.. it's been like two months but somehow I missed this post and I apologize.
I'm not sure the success of Joes is replicable. I mean, yeah, you could definitely replicate the formula of 'put together a GREAT looking toy with good accessories.' But let's not forget that Joe got to the point it's at after a fair bit of patience from collectors. Those same hiccups on a D&D line would have it dead before it started. That indicates, to me, that people were hungry for 6" Joes in a way they probably just aren't for D&D and probably never would be.
When you compare Joe with Star Wars, Marvel, TMNT... we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room that Star Wars has been ongoing for a LONG time now and is mostly just kind of self-sustaining. It's probably not picking up tons of new fans, and in fact it's PROBABLY on that declining end of the action figure lifespan where it's losing people that are basically done because they have what they wanted. After all, that is why we keep getting 'better' Vaders and 'better' Lukes, etc. Trying to keep those people coming back that maybe aren't interested in Mandalorians and pre-ANH rebels.Marvel is in the same boat where they're trying to cling to collectors that have probably been on board for a decade or in some cases decadeS. Gotta keep putting out better Wolverines and Captain Americas in the hope that those people will come back for more than just the couple characters per year they feel they're 'missing' from their collection while there's an ever-dwindling set of 'regulars' that still buy everything or most things, as well as the defined split between 'comic' collectors and 'MCU' collectors further splitting the 'must have it alls' from the 'I'm wrapping my collection up soons.'
Joes are still fairly fresh and new, in an expression that's only existed for a few years now, from a brand that has basically died the hard death twice now. There's no current sense of continuation here. This is essentially a whole new line for a beloved brand and anyone that's interested is probably getting all of their favorite characters just now for the first time, so a higher percentage of collectors of the line are still in for everything, or a lot of things.
That is to say, I still would say it's heavily based on nostalgia for the characters combined with getting them in this way for the first time ever. Let's see how many people go back to the well for the tenth Snake Eyes. Eventually the sales will slow, but right now Hasbro has a LOT of very popular characters they can put in the line for the first time ever, and that's going to keep this line popular for another couple of years, I expect.
Long-winded way of saying that, in my opinion, even if a D&D line replicates what makes the Joe figures good, it almost definitely can't replicate why the majority of people are interested enough to even know how good they are. Any line of really good figures is going to have fans, but I don't think that translates to Joe-level success on its own. And as I've said before, I think the nostalgia for D&D fans is art, dice, adventure modules... etc. We actually SEE this in play in the gaming community with fairly successful D&D clones based on earlier editions of the game, remakes of old adventures/supplements, etc. That's what D&D fans are nostalgic for -- action figures of generic villain types or hero archetypes? I think that appeals solely and specifically to fans of cool toys, and there's just not enough of us to support a line from a major company.
OR I'm totally wrong and stupid. That's also a distinct possibility.
Also.. Mythic Legions being 'mid' is probably too kind. Granted, I haven't owned one since the FIRST figures they made. But those figures sucked. All the joints got loose almost immediately, the articulation didn't function in the more important spots, parts of the structure of the figures looked pretty bad, the proportions were off... they just weren't good.
The new.. what is it... Mark IV knight body?... looks like it's pretty cool, though. But the line as a whole is still extremely derivative. And, as I've said before, it looks like they mostly just steal artwork from DeviantArt and Google Image Search and make figures of what they find. Hell, some of their fantasy weapons designs look like they were outright stolen from an old friend of mine whose work was posted all over the place online maybe 15 years ago and is still easy enough to find in the usual places. Further, their entire 'Cosmic Legions' line basically looks like a rip-off of the designs that came out of Paizo's sci-fi version of their Pathfinder setting; Starfinder. Look it up and check the similarities in some of that stuff. So... it may not win you friends to say their figures are 'meh' - but you've always got a friend in me on that one.I would love to agree that Hasbro could do well on a D&D line by peppering in named characters from the BG series, the old toys, etc. But realistically? They couldn't even sell out on a VERY nice Drizzt/Guen two-pack. He's basically THE D&D character. If you can't sell him, I don't know what hope there really is.
This is well reasoned. I don't want to spend a ton of time going back and forth on it because ultimately, I think we agree on one thing: we're never going to find out for sure.
It's also hard to know who the action figure audience is without hard data. I suspect you're right. They're people who have been collecting the same lines for decades. In the mobile gaming industry, they'd be called whales. They're mostly adult men with disposable income who carry the weight of the market on their backs.
I came into D&D in the last few years, so I don't have the historical knowledge. I wasn't around in the '80s (mercifully missed Reagan) so I can't speak to the popularity of the cartoon. Hell, I just bought my first physical dice this year.
The Drizzt point is a good one, though I'm not sure testing a singular character is enough market research to say a project will fail. Their cartoon figures don't count because they aren't Legends/Classified quality. My best argument is Mythic Legions. If generic fantasy characters sell in 7" scale, I think they'd work in 6" scale. Add D&D monsters, D&D branding, and a few noteworthy characters (including those from Baldur's Gate 3, your 2023 Game Awards Game of the Year winner), and I think you've got a winning recipe. It also seems like the movie figures sold reasonably well.
Hasbro was burned on the Starting Lineup revival and are likely 10x as a risk-averse in the action figure market now. It ain't happening, but I sure wish it would. Somehow, it looks like McFarlane is more open to articulated D&D figures than Hasbro itself.
@tsi I wouldn't read too far into that McF announcement, it says each Page Puncher will include 2 "articulated" figures, but it's most likely the small figures with 5 points of articulation.
I think we also have to acknowledge something interesting with D&D where a lot of the recent vogue for the game is totally disconnected its previous peaks in ways that something like the G.I. Joe Classified fanbase doesn't have. Because this current era of D&D is so created by Let's Play podcasts and Stranger Things shout-outs and BG III, and comprised of such young gamers, that they not only lack nostalgia for old D&D but also many of them don't collect figures at all. They haven't been waiting for a D&D 6-inch line forever because D&D's a new thing to a lot of them. Figures aren't really a thing to a lot of them, at best they've got some Funko Pops.
It's a fascinating changeover to me because there's very little connection to the old. Drizzt is THE D&D character to previous generations, but there's a huge chunk of the current D&D base that doesn't have any associations with him. They never read the Icewind Dale books, they never rolled their eyes at their friend's newest rebellious Drow character, yearning to free himself from the evil reputation of his kinsmen. They've never even cast Magic Missile on the darkness. (Which is not a criticism, I'm not trying to gatekeep here; just establishing that this line doesn't benefit from the same kind of pent-up demand as a new figure line based on an old figure line.)
And like KD and @misfit point out, while D&D has had successful figures in the past, the physical objects that people associate with the game aren't action figures. Miniature figurines, absolutely. Game books and modules, dice and dice bags, Cheetos and Mountain Dew, these are the totems. And any D&D figure line is competing with new books and minis, to say nothing of limited edition Mountain Dew flavors. It's a less urgent version of the problem that any Magic: The Gathering line faces and somehow the various Warhammer lines seem to survive. But I just assume every Warhammer player is sitting on a pile of Nazi gold, which explains both their resources and personal ideologies.
I'd actually be curious if Mythic Legions has any impact on this line, and whether the 6-inch scale is hurting it with collectors who already bought into Mythic (and its legally-distinct-from-Starfinder cousin, Cosmosfinder Legions). Like, if you're into generic fantasy figures, you probably jumped on the Legions train at some point, and now your goblins are too big and you've been arguing about the white power horse for too long to stop now.
Picked up the Drizzt & Guenhwyvar 2-pack on clearance at Hasbro Pulse. $19.91 seemed like a great price for a cool Panther figure.
I really don't have an interest in D&D but I love animal figures.
@secondwhiteline Some great points. I actually DM for... like 25-30 different players off and on? And I'm the ONLY action figure colllector among them. And they run the age/gender/income lines. I just don't see a ton of overlap between D&D players and action figure collectors. I wish the Venn diagram was in our favor - I think the Hasbro D&D figures (the two Drizzts especially) are fantastic. And I went pretty deep into the Mythic Legions line and when I saw Hasbro announce D&D figures I was like "give me Legends-ish level quality at a Hasbro price point and I'll walk away from Mythic Legions!" (The first thing i did when I got the first Drizzt was stick him in a photo fighting a Legions troll.) I'd trade the aesthetics of ML for the durability of Hasbro figures, TBH.
I think at this point the big overlap would be with people who play games like Baldur's Gate 3 and action figure collectors. It has the fandom and following who would be interested in action figures. If something like Critical Role can get a toyline then D&D absolutely could at least get one for BG3, and I'd wager it'd be a less risky venture than an Indiana Jones toyline that bites the dust before it even releases.
I couldn't see Drizzt selling well without an actual line. If the entire Classified line was Snake Eyes, then Commando Snake Eyes with Timber, and then a line of Snake Eyes movie figures, I bet that wouldn't sell like crazy either. More than Drizzt? Probably. But everything's more enticing when there's a variety for worldbuilding.
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