The D&D panel was a waste of time from a toy perspective. I don't understand why Hasbro is letting NECA eat their lunch with D&D figures.
Baldur's Gate III is one of Steam's biggest games ever. Huge missed opportunity.
Hasbro exec level straight does not care about that game, and it's obvious across the board. They were happy to sell the license and forget about it. It's the only explanation for why there are *no* products tied to it. No mind flayer figures, no box set ttrpg adventure to coincide with release, nothing.
They either assumed it would be a massive bomb, which from the early access hype they should have known wouldn't be the case, or they don't care, and the latter seems more likely.
They didn't offer figures tying into the previous D&D video game either. Action figures, especially highly poseable collector ones, require quite an investment. Without knowing whether a game is going to resonate with players and become a success or not, it's easy to see why Hasbro doesn't want to invest in D&D figures to tie-into video games which may be flops.
I doubt anyone saw the success of Baldur's Gate 3 coming. If it continues to have success, maybe Hasbro will invest in tie-in merchandise. By the time potential merchandise makes it to stores, will anyone still care?
D&D isn't as easy to translate into a successful action figure line as some people suggest. Do you go generic class types? Make up some names for them for the packaging? Will enough people respond to that to keep them interested? Do you make pre-established media, but how many of those characters are recognizable to the masses? D&D is all about creating your own character, so how does that translate to a toyline? Having swappable parts to customize figures seems like it would be a huge investment to make work? Will that investment work? I'd like to see more D&D toys on shelves, as I'm a big fan of fantasy. I'm just not sure what the best approach to the brand as action figures would be.
They didn't offer figures tying into the previous D&D video game either. Action figures, especially highly poseable collector ones, require quite an investment. Without knowing whether a game is going to resonate with players and become a success or not, it's easy to see why Hasbro doesn't want to invest in D&D figures to tie-into video games which may be flops.
I doubt anyone saw the success of Baldur's Gate 3 coming. If it continues to have success, maybe Hasbro will invest in tie-in merchandise. By the time potential merchandise makes it to stores, will anyone still care?
D&D isn't as easy to translate into a successful action figure line as some people suggest. Do you go generic class types? Make up some names for them for the packaging? Will enough people respond to that to keep them interested? Do you make pre-established media, but how many of those characters are recognizable to the masses? D&D is all about creating your own character, so how does that translate to a toyline? Having swappable parts to customize figures seems like it would be a huge investment to make work? Will that investment work? I'd like to see more D&D toys on shelves, as I'm a big fan of fantasy. I'm just not sure what the best approach to the brand as action figures would be.
I wouldn't have assumed a toy tie-in, but the fact that Hasbro didn't bother a pen and paper one either (aside form very slim stuff inserted into D&D Beyond) is pretty baffling. And the idea BG3 would be at least marginally successful should have been on someone's radar. It's a fan favorite series being done by a fan favorite developer with good buzz in the pre-release from people actually playing a good chunk of the game.
They couldn't have known just how big it would have been, but it wouldn't have taken much to know it was unlikely to flop. And doing something like a Mind Flayer figure would be a very safe tie-in that catches folks regardless of whether or not they play, just like owlbears and beholders. It can fight your movie figs or your Drizzt or even your other stuff. Just a cool monster. It's low hanging fruit in two different tie-in avenues (one being the avenue the game itself originated) that was just left on the vine.
I'll grant you that the heroes are difficult, but D&D villains are not. If you've played a D&D campaign, you've likely run across mind flayers or another notable villain. It also seems like NECA's cartoon-based line has been extremely successful. That line is taking characters who have appeared throughout D&D lore and producing them in action figure form. Why couldn't Hasbro do the same? Characters like Minsc and Jaheira have been around for decades and tie into BG3.
While character customization makes things more difficult, it doesn't make them impossible. If Hasbro were to make, say, a generic rogue (black hooded robe, a bow, and knives), it would likely get you 80% of the way to your own creation. There's a big enough market for generic fantasy figures to make it work. D&D also has decades of awesome artwork and characters that could be realized if Hasbro bothered to try.
Will anyone care about BG3 in two years? I don't know. The closest comparison, in my opinion, is Mass Effect 2. ME2 is one of my favorite games ever and I still love it enough to buy figures. As with most video games, though, the problem is that none are being made.
The demand for BG3 merch is insane right now. The game's collector's edition (retail $270) is selling for between $1200 and $2000 on eBay right now. That's a missed opportunity.
I'll grant you that the heroes are difficult, but D&D villains are not. If you've played a D&D campaign, you've likely run across mind flayers or another notable villain. It also seems like NECA's cartoon-based line has been extremely successful. That line is taking characters who have appeared throughout D&D lore and producing them in action figure form. Why couldn't Hasbro do the same? Characters like Minsc and Jaheira have been around for decades and tie into BG3.
While character customization makes things more difficult, it doesn't make them impossible. If Hasbro were to make, say, a generic rogue (black hooded robe, a bow, and knives), it would likely get you 80% of the way to your own creation. There's a big enough market for generic fantasy figures to make it work. D&D also has decades of awesome artwork and characters that could be realized if Hasbro bothered to try.
Will anyone care about BG3 in two years? I don't know. The closest comparison, in my opinion, is Mass Effect 2. ME2 is one of my favorite games ever and I still love it enough to buy figures. As with most video games, though, the problem is that none are being made.
The demand for BG3 merch is insane right now. The game's collector's edition (retail $270) is selling for between $1200 and $2000 on eBay right now. That's a missed opportunity.
Your point about Minsc is dead on. People LOVE that character. After Drizzt I think he's one of the most known D&D characters outside of strict tabletop gamers strictly because of his inclusion in the BG games.
I do think customizable figures are a biiiig stretch, and unlikely to happen or really be profitable in a way that would please Hasbro execs, but signature heroes and villain monsters? Way lower bar to clear.
Fantasy figures have a huge market. Look at the Mythic Legions community. They literally have their own convention, and it's not some rinky-dink online one. I think generic fantasy figures would sell extremely well, in comic shops, game shops, all over. I'm collecting ML's mainly because there isn't an alternative. I like MLs but they lack articulation, have a very MoTU look, and are particularly proportioned and scaled outside of 1/12
As far as customization goes, you really only need to exchange heads (maybe necks) and hands so you can cross races and skin tones. The thing is, they could repaint the hell out of these figures and reuse a ton of parts and it wouldn't matter. The ranger in an all green and brown getup... now here's the same ranger, but in night colors, for hiding in shadows. Put a new head and hands on the ranger body and you go from human to elf.
Could you imagine these figures with the level of care GI Joe is currently getting? Decked out with super fun accessories, animal companies, and so on? Knights, bards, rogues, paladins, wizards? I don't know how much the license for DnD is, but I wish some company would at least do this, because you could still release generics without tying it directly to DnD. No one owns the IP on "thief"
Go to a comic convention and see how many people are in line to buy luxury dice. So many players get expensive custom 3D printed figures of their characters. Heck, Hasbro even has custom face printing tech!! People could put their own faces on their DnD characters.
Fantasy figures have a huge market. Look at the Mythic Legions community. They literally have their own convention, and it's not some rinky-dink online one. I think generic fantasy figures would sell extremely well, in comic shops, game shops, all over. I'm collecting ML's mainly because there isn't an alternative. I like MLs but they lack articulation, have a very MoTU look, and are particularly proportioned and scaled outside of 1/12
As far as customization goes, you really only need to exchange heads (maybe necks) and hands so you can cross races and skin tones. The thing is, they could repaint the hell out of these figures and reuse a ton of parts and it wouldn't matter. The ranger in an all green and brown getup... now here's the same ranger, but in night colors, for hiding in shadows. Put a new head and hands on the ranger body and you go from human to elf.
Could you imagine these figures with the level of care GI Joe is currently getting? Decked out with super fun accessories, animal companies, and so on? Knights, bards, rogues, paladins, wizards? I don't know how much the license for DnD is, but I wish some company would at least do this, because you could still release generics without tying it directly to DnD. No one owns the IP on "thief"
Go to a comic convention and see how many people are in line to buy luxury dice. So many players get expensive custom 3D printed figures of their characters. Heck, Hasbro even has custom face printing tech!! People could put their own faces on their DnD characters.
This exactly. The reason I got into Mythic Legions was because BFS fantasy is kind of winding down and also getting more expensive and Hasbro's movie characters didn't appeal. I'd have bought the whole dang line if they'd just make more generic looking stuff like this like they've been doing with the Joes. And I'd be able to crossover with my TBS figs too for scenes. As it is I bought 1 movie fig and she came with her hips completely broken and frozen. I returned her and haven't tried again.
I am big into Plunderings, and got into Mythic Legions because I like to make my own OC d&d characters. It is fun, but very expensive. I do love having Warduke, the 80's cartoon kids, Xanathar, my Owlbear and Gelatinus Cube all on my shelf... but if that is all Hasbro wants to give us, they are definitely leaving money on the table. Especially if they could make so much money just repainting Illithids, Beholders, Owlbears, etc. Even a red or green Gelatinus Cube would be sick. And with the selfie series... making your own custom adventurer would be easier then ever. Elvs, humans, dwarfs, halflings... just let us customize features, 3D print them, put them on adventurer bodies, charge us $60ish each. Maybe I am thinking too big, but they are definitely leaving money on the table.
Especially with not giving us a Count Strahd.
After playing almost a hundred hours of BG3 I have to say I'm disappointed in the lack of merch. It's entirely understandable that no one knew how big of a hit this game would be, but I think figures of the main cast would sell. Making an entire mass retail line dedicated to them at this point wouldn't be worth it because the fires will have cooled off by the time they go into production, but something from NECA would have the potential to sell pretty well, I think.
That being said, I think Hasbro does need to do more with this line, even if it doesn't tie into BG3. I have the original Drizzt they produced and the monsters are cool but there's so much potential here that I don't think they can see.
While Mythic Legions (MyL) is a successful independent line, they only sell in a fraction of quantities Hasbro needs to. MyL figures sell in quantities of maybe a couple thousand. Hasbro lines sell tens of thousands. So while MyL and other independent fantasy lines can be successful for their respective companies, it doesn't mean a full-on D&D line from Hasbro is going to be a successful venture. The animated D&D figures were essentially a dud as were the movie figures. The Pulse Drizzt exclusive is still available on their site...years later. Right now, D&D figures don't have a great track record. NECA's D&D figures seem to be getting good buzz but we don't really know if they're going to sell through and we really have no idea how many units they're really moving. What they consider to be worth continuing may not meet Hasbro's minimum order quantities.
I love the fantasy genre. I'd also love for there to be more fantasy action figures, including at retail stores. I just don't think D&D figures at retail are a guaranteed success waiting to happen. Customizable figures wouldn't work either. A blank base body with attachable armor sounds like an engineering nightmare for a retail line (which has to pass safety standards). And frankly wouldn't look right either. MyL gets away with it due to their extraordinary paint apps, which is something you're not going to get at retail.
I had an ex-coworker once ask me what distinguishes the D&D property from other similar IPs (this was when the D&D movie was announced). The only thing I could come up with were the monsters. Plenty of them are unique to the game. I love the ones we've gotten so far (haven't opened the dragon but I'm sure it'll be disappointing) and would like to see more from that front. Hook Horrors. Mindflayers. Umber Hulks. Not sure how well the current monsters are doing though. Hopefully, they sell well enough for more to be made. But monsters will all have to be unique molds with limited reuse so they're risky financial investments. However, I think they have a decent chance at sales to fans of other properties due to their crossover appeal.
Regarding characters, or character types, for action figures. Maybe Hasbro could conduct a poll. Put up a dozen characters from across different media. See which characters people want and make the top 4. Start there. It would still be a risky venture, but maybe if people see figures in the same style, even if they're from different source material, they'd be more inclined to pick up any of them. I think the Pulse Drizzt hasn't done well since he's basically only one figure and all on his own, until the monsters showed up.
LoL well I think you argued past some of my points and accidentally argued some of them for me.
Yes, the movie figures didn't sell well. They weren't very appealing figures. The likenesses were pretty bad, accessories were scant. The cartoon figures got horrible QC reviews, and they are pretty niche, and don't work generic. The thing is - those are targeted at specific adaptations of the IP and not the actual game itself. That's a different idea.
Drizzt was a one off figure. He's not part of a line. Who do you display him with? As someone who has played DnD since I was a kid, I didn't even really know who Drizzt was. He's not my character - he's a character from a book I didn't read.
I would say instead of focusing on named characters, focus on generic party members. Elf Ranger. Human Cleric. Maybe put one named character in a wave and include build-a-monster or something. As for customization - no I don't expect Hasbro to engineer complete take apart figures. What I did say was that you could do most customization with just head/neck and hand swaps. It only depends on how much skin is showing. The knight could be human/elf/half elf/orc, etc. Just swap heads. That's it. Figures showing a lot of skin would be a problem. Good news: repaint, add new head, and that elf sorceress is now a half-orc sorceress. It lends itself for purposeful reuse. What distinguishes DnD from other IP is that people use their own imagination to create their own characters from a template, and then explore a world with an avatar of themselves. That's what has led to the resurgence of the game's popularity amongst millennials and gen z. Displacer beasts are fine, but the most excitement I hear from people is for the things they and their party are creating themselves.
For numbers... I think it'd be very successful, but I'd agree that Target would have a hard time being convinced, and that's probably where the idea will die. They'd probably want an IP connection that isn't generic. Ultimately, these figures would have to be good-- because there are a lot of people that will buy a meh version of a character they really like, if that's the only option out there, and since Hasbro sells as waves, they can anchor peg warmer characters so long as there is a Wolverine to keep things in the black. But, if they were actually really good figures of knights, rangers, wizards, rogues, barbarians... they'd sell a ton. The audience is there.
@hopethisworks If I can chime in - I gotta say that I'm 100% with Ash on this one.
I believe that 'generic fantasy figures would be very successful' is a pipe dream of fantasy nerds, and not an actual reality. As was said, the successful fantasy lines are mostly small companies that deal in thousands, not hundreds of thousands of units. And I say that as someone that's a HUGE fantasy nerd. I love fantasy so goddamn much. I've played every edition of D&D since 2nd, Pathfinder, Starfinder, GURPS, Decipher's LotR, D20 Modern, Mongoose's d20 Conan, and like.. a bunch of other tabletop fantasy and sci-fi games I can't think of right now. Not to mention being a huge fan of fantasy films, books, TV shows, etc. So I'm definitely not a hater here. I'm someone that wants fantasy stuff to happen.
The kind of 'generic fantasy people' line you're describing sells. That's already proven. Boss Fight's been proving it for years. So has the 4H, to a lesser extent I would say. It's just that these aren't billion dollar ideas that are worth doing for a company the size of Hasbro that needs to sell hundreds of thousands of units. Hell, even the massive success of BGIII apparently doesn't have Hasbro chomping to release more D&D toys.
Here's the thing, too; You're on a toy forum. The audience is going to be skewed. We're toy collectors so we want toys of the things we like. So if you find fantasy fans here, then you're gonna have fantasy fans that want fantasy toys. But the reality is that we do not represent a majority of EITHER toy collectors OR gaming nerds. We're literally a niche community within one of two different niche communities.
I don't know how long you've been a D&D player. Frankly, I think it's weird that you're a big D&D guy but didn't know who Drizzt was. He's an iconic character from WotC. It's like not knowing who Elminster is. But that's neither here nor there, I suppose. I'VE been playing tabletop fantasy games (and chat-based, and PBP-based, and Virtual Tabletop when that became a thing) for 30 years. I've sat at a LOT of tables. I've online-gamed in the various forms mentioned for as long as those options have existed. I don't even need all my toesies to count the people I've met that, when asked (and I often ask) are toy collectors.
D&D players tend to also be LARPers, sometimes. They very strongly tend toward collecting miniatures, or playing other miniature-based games (Warhammer, Chainmail, whatever). LOTS of the ones I've talked to collect either real or fantasy weapons and such. Basically all of them own way, way too many dice. Basically all of them have copies of tabletop RPGs that they'll never get a chance to play, or splatbooks they'll never use in their games. A good chunk of them collect board games.
But surprisingly few of them (again, that I've spoken to, but that is a LOT of people) have any interest at all in action figures.
I just don't think the idea sells as well as you want to believe, is what I'm saying. Drizzt, again so weird that you didn't know who he was, is possibly WotC's highest profile character EVER. And, as said, his figure is still available. And it's a damn good figure, too. D&D fans could be buying Chris Pine figures JUST to use as generic bards on their shelf. But they're not. Because they'd rather buy Reaper Minis of bards and use those in their actual games. It sucks, but I think that's just the reality. If you want good generic fantasy figures - buy some Boss Fight toys. They're the shit, and are customizable in exactly the way a gamer might want to make 'their' version of various archetypes of specific characters. I've made lots of customs of characters from games I've played using BFS figures. And the kind of stuff BFS is doing is the kind of thing Hasbro would NEVER do anyway.
Fair enough. Maybe I'm way out of touch.
I've been playing DnD for 25ish years, starting with AD&D, did a lot of 3.0 in highschool/college and have been DMing a game for 9 years with a lot of new school players-- we started in 3.5 and converted to 5e.
Drizzt - I knew of him but hadn't read a story about him/knew his background etc beyond a few things. My friends and I mostly DM'd from our own campaigns and didn't use modules, or, if we did, they were usually heavily reskinned into our games. Subsequently I didn't really want to get his action figure.
Gaming has changed a lot. DnD is fashionable. Yes, I know I'm on a toy forum-- but I also know a lot of people ages 18-40 who weren't into the game but got on board in the last 8 years because of the popularity of Critical Role, Adventure Zone, and Stranger Things. Hip people that are nerd adjacent with money to burn and yes, they don't have huge action figure collections but do drop $ when they see something that speaks to them, statues, dice, action figures, POPs, art. The new geek world doesn't look like it did 10, 20, 30 years ago. It's not even really a geek world anymore. It's just popular culture. These people, on top of the audience that's already there-- yeah, it's speculation, I can't tell you exact numbers, but when I look at the gamut of what's out there right now and shelf space taken up by properties like ALF and I see DnD hotter than its ever been...
None of these people would buy a Chris Pine bard because to them it would be Chris Pine's character in the movie. It was never marketed to them as anything but.
To me this is the same mentality that led people to believe Boulder's Gate wouldn't be a hit. They underestimate the appeal of the avatar. But popular, hip looking insta-artists with huge followings are posting the character's they made in game. In the background are action figures, POPs, all that stuff. There's something distinctly appealing to creating a character, sharing it with others, and owning a physical piece of it.
HACKs are on the way there, but the official DnD logo, at 1/12 scale, would turn heads. But I do agree on one thing, I don't think Hasbro will ever make them.
Is it possible both things are true? Generic fantasy figures wouldn't do particularly well and Hasbro/D&D majorly dropped the ball on BG3 merch?
I also think there's something to be said for the success of NECA's D&D line. Maybe Hasbro's Drizzt hasn't sold well, but it's not like they're giving us any other D&D options. As stated above, the cartoon figures were terrible and the movie is the movie.
I wonder if there's a way to capture G.I.Joe magic here. Like, D&D archetypes that can serve as either generic fantasy characters or specific individuals depending on how much they care about reading their file scrolls.
I feel like that's how LJN approached it back in the day. I can't name the good elf, but the evil warrior sure took off.
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