okay, thanks.
It' the Giant-man thread again "he's 4x the size he should only be 4x the cost". No, that's literally not how this works.
Hold on. He's twice as tall, and twice as wide so he should be twice the cost. That's just math. To suggest otherwise is to imply and third.... I don't know... we'll call it a "dimension". That's just nonsense.
There’s more happening around the edges, but this is the core of my current holiday setup…
Hasbro, who has been very successful convincing collectors tooling anything new is some massive undertaking, to its credit gave me an action figure with a fully-articulated panther for the same price as one reindeer.
So this is exactly what I'm talking about. Hasbro is absolutely right. New steel molds, regardless of the complexity of the sculpt, are *always* extremely expensive. They just go from exorbitant pricing to criminal pricing from what I understand. And Hasbro can offer that articulation at a lower cost because they are eating the cost up front knowing that a Snake Eyes (for example) will be nearly guaranteed to sell X number of units in 6 months. They are making up the cost in volume of sales. And note, that wolf Snake Eyes came with has already been used multiple times, and the bodies/accessories that came with the wolf were used 2-4 times now depending on the buck. They are still doing things to offset that tooling.
Not to mention that's literally how economies of scale work.
They can sell 1,000 units at $50 a pop or 2,000 units at $25 a pop, but the math remains the same regardless.
It' the Giant-man thread again "he's 4x the size he should only be 4x the cost". No, that's literally not how this works.
Hold on. He's twice as tall, and twice as wide so he should be twice the cost. That's just math. To suggest otherwise is to imply and third.... I don't know... we'll call it a "dimension". That's just nonsense.
Yes I have heard of this fabled "third dimension". Fake news as far as I'm concerned.
I think $45 a reindeer is certainly a bit of a daunting price in that it is going to cost $450 (tax and shipping) to get the 9 main reindeer and alt heads. That's HasLab money, and while I am on board with it, part of my acceptance is that this is not a major company and that the product so far has been really good quality and fun and I am already engaged with the line. But if they started out with just classic Santa, the reindeer and no sleigh and wanted close to $500 for that...I likely would pass.
They are fairly bulky - they are listed as 5 1/2 inches tall, but assuming the scale in the photos is correct, that is too the ears, not the antlers. They will also be about 7 inches long, seem to have decent articulation, and the layered paint apps on the fur looks well done. So I get why they are that price in a world where Hasbro charged $55+ for Blob, and these are about 15% more than the basic Santas in the line.
But I certainly won't begrudge anyone who thinks it is a lot of money for 9 reindeer, because it is.
@doober I think on the Facebook page they said weekly, but not more specific than that.
Looks like they did update, only a small uptick overall it looks like to me. I think the Reindeer are 50/50 at this point - need another 900 units. Doable but hard to know if these act like other crowdfunding things and get a bump at the end.
I wonder if they have already built in some fat to the targets and their actual break even is lower than the targets, because would they really walk away from $1 million in reindeer sales if they only get to 2500 units? Depending on how they worked the numbers, I think they might bet on themselves if that close that they can sell more near Christmas next year.
So they posted this update to Facebook
I ordered a few of the reindeer. I don't feel obligated to get 9 of them though. 1-4 pulling a sleigh seems fine and more feasible for display purposes.
I also preordered the red Krampus. A chubby red demon guy seems like a fun addition to the super ripped red demons from other companies, like Mythic Legions.
Wish I knew about the 5 Below Teeny Tinies Holiday set, as it's sold out everywhere near me and not available for shipping.
I'm broke and I think the reindeer are a fair price.
*shrug*
So this is exactly what I'm talking about. Hasbro is absolutely right. New steel molds, regardless of the complexity of the sculpt, are *always* extremely expensive. They just go from exorbitant pricing to criminal pricing from what I understand. And Hasbro can offer that articulation at a lower cost because they are eating the cost up front knowing that a Snake Eyes (for example) will be nearly guaranteed to sell X number of units in 6 months. They are making up the cost in volume of sales. And note, that wolf Snake Eyes came with has already been used multiple times, and the bodies/accessories that came with the wolf were used 2-4 times now depending on the buck. They are still doing things to offset that tooling.
Again, you're not telling anyone anything they're not likely aware of. Tooling is the most expensive part of action figure production, or really any plastics that require steel molds, and I think everybody gets that. I made a little dig at Hasbro, and that's my fault because it derailed this, but Hasbro as a publicly traded company has a whole different mission statement than a smaller toy producer. They skimp on molds because they only care about returning a profit to their shareholders. They can't simply be happy making a profit off of each figure sold. Not to say the individuals working on the projects don't care, but they're not getting the freedom to do what they want.
TBF, I don't think anyone was obligated to buy anything or was wrong to not buy. *I'm* priced out at $45 a pop. But I've done back end production on stuff in adjacent industries before, and I'm sorry, but yeah, most people on hobby forums have really wrong ideas on how much anything actually costs or is made. They have no idea the margins smaller companies are working on. And the type of hobby doesn't matter. Fans often think they know more than they do, and expect stuff to be the same between huge megacorps and much smaller outfits when those two things are very different.
That doesn't mean people are bad for not wanting to buy this. As I said, I'm not buying it. It just means there's a difference between "I can't afford this" and "the company is doing something wrong because I can't afford this". I agree this price point doesn't work for everyone. Different folks can have different opinions about what they'd pay and for what.
My only issue is when folks say this exact offering *should* cost less due to comparison to Hasbro or similar competitor. That's wild. It' the Giant-man thread again "he's 4x the size he should only be 4x the cost". No, that's literally not how this works.
I never said anything should cost less, and I don't recall reading that from anyone else. Maybe it could cost less? I don't know, I don't have access to FMF's balance sheet. As consumers, we are naturally going to compare products in the same industry. What challenges each producer faces is their own problem. At the end of the day, they're all competing for my money and none of them are entitled to it. This isn't charity so just because FMF is a smaller shop doesn't mean they get to sit outside the market. Hasbro has their own unique challenges, it's likely why they prioritize mold reuse with a lot of their lines and cut accessories and paint apps. You don't have to look hard to find other companies doing it differently. Jada is rolling out their Street Fighter line where each figure is comprised largely of unique tools and comes with a bunch of stuff and is less money than a Marvel Legend. NECA is constantly putting out licensed figures with unique tooling and loads of paint in the 35 dollar range. Boss Fight Studio just unveiled a pretty kick ass looking Red Sonja for 50 bucks. All companies of different sizes with different goals. Like it or not, FMF has to compete with all of them. They chose to do a crowdfund partnered with BBTS which reduces a lot of their risk, though not as much as a Kickstarter would, but they're also not paying Kickstarter so it cuts both ways. It's for unlicensed products with lots of mold reuse. Maybe this is the best they can do? As a consumer, I look at that reindeer and I don't see 45 dollars worth of value and there's a wide variety of stuff that I've come in contact with over the years informing my decision. I went off on this tangent simply because a couple of posters were acting like any criticism is unwarranted when everyone is entitled to critique a product that's put out there. That doesn't mean others can't find value in it and I hope that enough do so these can be funded for those who want them, but let's not start dismissing the criticisms of others because their idea of value doesn't align with our own.
@doober I think on the Facebook page they said weekly, but not more specific than that.
Looks like they did update, only a small uptick overall it looks like to me. I think the Reindeer are 50/50 at this point - need another 900 units. Doable but hard to know if these act like other crowdfunding things and get a bump at the end.
I wonder if they have already built in some fat to the targets and their actual break even is lower than the targets, because would they really walk away from $1 million in reindeer sales if they only get to 2500 units? Depending on how they worked the numbers, I think they might bet on themselves if that close that they can sell more near Christmas next year.
I would assume so for the simple reason that no one is obligated to go through with their purchase so there must be a buffer somewhere. They have two waves of market research to fall back on so they likely have a decent idea of what the drop rate is between close and delivery (or will after the processing soon emails go out for Wave 2) so if they get close that might be enough.
You don't have to look hard to find other companies doing it differently. Jada is rolling out their Street Fighter line where each figure is comprised largely of unique tools and comes with a bunch of stuff and is less money than a Marvel Legend. NECA is constantly putting out licensed figures with unique tooling and loads of paint in the 35 dollar range. Boss Fight Studio just unveiled a pretty kick ass looking Red Sonja for 50 bucks. All companies of different sizes with different goals. Like it or not, FMF has to compete with all of them.
Ok so you named NECA and Jada who are toy companies that have their figures at retail (also Jada has their other main toys to help subsidize their foray into action figures).
BFS is the only comparable figure and their figure is $50 and we have no idea how it will get reused beut based on BFS it will get reused a lot.
You don't have to look hard to find other companies doing it differently. Jada is rolling out their Street Fighter line where each figure is comprised largely of unique tools and comes with a bunch of stuff and is less money than a Marvel Legend. NECA is constantly putting out licensed figures with unique tooling and loads of paint in the 35 dollar range. Boss Fight Studio just unveiled a pretty kick ass looking Red Sonja for 50 bucks. All companies of different sizes with different goals. Like it or not, FMF has to compete with all of them.
Ok so you named NECA and Jada who are toy companies that have their figures at retail (also Jada has their other main toys to help subsidize their foray into action figures).
BFS is the only comparable figure and their figure is $50 and we have no idea how it will get reused beut based on BFS it will get reused a lot.
Then pick a different company, my dude. The point is there are a bunch of companies in this space going about things differently. All that matters to me as a consumer is what the end product is and the price.
Looking forward to having Father Frost (Blue), Father Christmas (Green), standard Santa (Red) and Winter is Coming Santa (White) next to each other, kind of like the Santa Power Rangers, each with a different staff.
...At least I can use the Black Santa head for some added variety.
I got thinking about this and will likely add the Krampus with black/deep green Santa suit and give that the "evil" Santa head from the Zombie Santa as the 5th Ranger.
Jolly Santa will be the Red Ranger, thanks for that idea. Will put the translucent blue head from Father Frost on the Winter is Here body for the White Ranger, go with the young head for Father Christmas, and Father Frost with the standard head.
So White, Blue, Red, Green, Black Santa Rangers.
I was not expecting these to show up until after Christmas, but FedEx actually did a Sunday delivery today
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