Oh, another thing to note, though it probably has no real impact,
Anakin, like almost all other lightsaber users, attached his hilt to the belt with the emitter pointed down. Vader, as far as I know, is the only one to have his on the belt upside down. The emitter points up toward the ceiling.Â
It doesn't have a lot of impact though since it's still black at either end and in the middle. But if you're able to make out the vertical lines of the rubber grips, that could answer which saber he has.
Also,at what point is she seeing him? Sometime in the middle of rots? Right after he said bye to her on the show? Is he a force ghost? Or is he the Son from Mortis?
Interesting they are showing the next episode in theaters. They have to think it is a killer episode to do that.Â
I will say I did not like the World Between Worlds concept when it was introduced in Rebels - I don't think Star Wars needs any time-travel-esque storytelling options. But we'll see what happens this time.Â
I will say I did not like the World Between Worlds concept when it was introduced in Rebels - I don't think Star Wars needs any time-travel-esque storytelling options. But we'll see what happens this time.Â
I actually felt and feel exactly the same way. it didn't feel like a star wars concept to me.
I admit I also narrowed my eyes at the opening of Ahsoka because it was feeling too star treky to me.
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I will say I did not like the World Between Worlds concept when it was introduced in Rebels - I don't think Star Wars needs any time-travel-esque storytelling options. But we'll see what happens this time.Â
The World Between Worlds does have limitations. People within the realm can't simply go in and affect everything to their own liking. If this was true, both Ahsoka and Ezra would have stayed in there and simply gone back and prevented the fall of the Republic, etc etc etc.
And yeah it's a narrative device, but name one significant part of Star Wars that isn't explained by a lazy hand-wavy sci-fi space wizard piece of lore that the writers kinda made up as they went 😋Â
Right after he said bye to her on the show? Is he a force ghost? Or is he the Son from Mortis?
I think we are seeing the redeemed Anakin as a force ghost who has been chilling out in there since his death. He has chosen to appear to Ahsoka in the look that he sported the last time they saw each other prior to her departure for Mandalore with Rex and the 332nd. I suspect that he'll revert to the form he sported in the Endor force ghost scene with more typical Jedi robes and a few extra years on his face.
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And yeah it's a narrative device, but name one significant part of Star Wars that isn't explained by a lazy hand-wavy sci-fi space wizard piece of lore that the writers kinda made up as they went 😋Â
Fair! I guess I liked the sense that Star Wars was more an advanced civilization compared to ours - it sci-fantasy in that regard - with a few slightly more powerful people bopping around. But not transporter beams or time travel or superheroes that can fly or alternate-universes or an alien invasion or all-powerful god-like beings or what not. Star Wars is oddly grounded as both the people and the tech feeling potentially real and I felt the whole Mortis arc and the World Between Worlds sort of took it in an odd direction compared to that.
But I do want Ahsoka and Anakin to have some closure! So I'll be pretty forgiving I expect...
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Right after he said bye to her on the show? Is he a force ghost? Or is he the Son from Mortis?I think we are seeing the redeemed Anakin as a force ghost who has been chilling out in there since his death. He has chosen to appear to Ahsoka in the look that he sported the last time they saw each other prior to her departure for Mandalore with Rex and the 332nd. I suspect that he'll revert to the form he sported in the Endor force ghost scene with more typical Jedi robes and a few extra years on his face.
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You may be right about all that. I just thought it was interesting they de-aged him when they didn't do that with Liam Neeson. And Force ghosts haven't traditionally needed the WBW to appear to people, so I took it more that this is either really Anakin having also stepped into the WBW and interacting with her from another point in time, or it's someone pretending to be him doing that.
BUT, it seems like the most obvious answer is usually the truth. We fans tend to overthink plots way more than the writers do.
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RU - To complain about endings though... Mandalorian Season 2 felt like something of an ending with emotional stakes etc, even though they undid it by the time season 3 came about.
Mando S2 ended MIDSCENE. Luke literally walked in, solved all their problems and walked out with Grogu and CREDITS. Doesn't matter that our characters were on an enemy ship with Gideon konked out, or had their own dramas between one another. No denouement, no moment to digest, no resolution. Terrible storytelling.
Ahsoka seems better so far, though the pacing is indulgent and Ahsoka herself is so. stoic. Girl, you used to have spark! I loved her space walk - that was actually the first part with her that felt like her. Huyang is fun - did he exist before this show? I never watched Rebels, so this is my first real exposure to Sabine and Hera. Hera has had the same beat for four episodes and Sabine was cool until she cut her hair. I like the actors.
Merrock was a big buildup to... wind?
I don't understand this Star Wars mentality of people who just do the bidding of other people who just stand around doing the bidding. In a fleet, okay. In Starfleet, okay. But it's super undramatic. I shall swoop this way and grimace. Now I shall swoop this way and grimace. I am intimidating! Nah.
RU - To complain about endings though... Mandalorian Season 2 felt like something of an ending with emotional stakes etc, even though they undid it by the time season 3 came about.
Mando S2 ended MIDSCENE. Luke literally walked in, solved all their problems and walked out with Grogu and CREDITS. Doesn't matter that our characters were on an enemy ship with Gideon konked out, or had their own dramas between one another. No denouement, no moment to digest, no resolution. Terrible storytelling.
I get your point, and see how that's a valid reaction, but if I'm given an emotional resolution, it will satisfy me enough to not worry about all that. Sure it would have been cool to have seen Boba Fett swing back to pick up (at least) Fennec and JUST miss Luke. Or hell, even be in his presence and have a moment. How would they even feel about each other anymore? Or I guess we could have seen Cara take Gideon off in custody, and presumably get blown up as soon as she dropped him off.
But what the whole season had been building toward, for me, was completely resolved with Din willingly and openly taking off his helmet to say goodbye to someone that had turned his life upside in every way since they met, and now he's embraced it. Ultimately it was a story between those two characters and the emotional payoff of that scene (on top of me telling my wife "well... I mean, it could be Luke but I doubt it...wait... that's totally Luke. Is it? No way... it's Luke! Look at that! It's him! Oh, horrible CG but I don't care!") was plenty for me.
To be totally transparent though, after being one of those who kept rigid track of all mysteries and theories on Lost for six years, was surprisingly satisfied with the heavy emotional punch of the ending. Did they answer everything? Not even close. Did it make total sense and had bulletproof continuity? Nah. Did the characters have intense emotional closure? Absolutely.
So, I definitely get where you're coming from and recognize I can be pleased by certain things that aren't true for all.
Ahsoka seems better so far, though the pacing is indulgent and Ahsoka herself is so. stoic. Girl, you used to have spark! I loved her space walk - that was actually the first part with her that felt like her. Huyang is fun - did he exist before this show? I never watched Rebels, so this is my first real exposure to Sabine and Hera. Hera has had the same beat for four episodes and Sabine was cool until she cut her hair. I like the actors.
I get that, but she's also been through quite a few things since she was 'Snips'. Hera, yeah, not a gripping character so far. The Lekku are definitely wearing her when it comes to the performance. And yeah Ahsoka is stoic, and I definitely see why you call the pacing indulgent. It really took me an episode or two to adjust to that style as it's contrasts severely with Lucas's 'faster and more intense' style of directing.
Merrock was a big buildup to... wind?
Merrock was fan expectation personified, and now it's been vaporized.
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I will say I did not like the World Between Worlds concept when it was introduced in Rebels - I don't think Star Wars needs any time-travel-esque storytelling options. But we'll see what happens this time.Â
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I like Rebels and all but I never liked the World between Worlds stuff either. I didnt really like the "Mortis Arc" everyone loves either. It's just too big to go with the force; which I think works better when it maintains a little more mystery attached to it. When it gets that big and broad its like Dr Who or Dr Strange. Not Star Wars' strong suit. Still excited for the next episode. If its just how Anakin speaks to her I'm fine with it. Just don't really like it used as plot resolution.
I think fundamentally we are seeing a redeemed Anakin but the Vader theme queue at the very end suggests to me that this relationship is obviously more complicated and ominous. After all it was Baylor's taunt of Ahsoka about Anakin that really got to her.
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But what the whole season had been building toward, for me, was completely resolved with Din willingly and openly taking off his helmet to say goodbye to someone that had turned his life upside in every way since they met, and now he's embraced it. Ultimately it was a story between those two characters and the emotional payoff of that scene (on top of me telling my wife "well... I mean, it could be Luke but I doubt it...wait... that's totally Luke. Is it? No way... it's Luke! Look at that! It's him! Oh, horrible CG but I don't care!") was plenty for me.
I agree 100%, if that had been the last episode of the Mandalorian series it would have worked for me as wrapping up the whole Mando protecting Grogu arc, which was the story of the show. And I think the way that Mando and Grogu have seemed a bit like supporting players in Boba Fett's and Bo-Katan's stories since then kind of shows how much that episode did wrap things up.
To be totally transparent though, after being one of those who kept rigid track of all mysteries and theories on Lost for six years, was surprisingly satisfied with the heavy emotional punch of the ending. Did they answer everything? Not even close. Did it make total sense and had bulletproof continuity? Nah. Did the characters have intense emotional closure? Absolutely.
I also agree 100% about Lost.
Note I also think this is the point of Twin Peaks, The Return - Cooper's hubris and fixation that he can intervene in something he (and the audience) doesn't truly understand means he doesn't fix the things he could have - which is why "Dougie" Cooper actually accomplishes more good than "Real" Cooper, who unleashed his doppelganger and ends up so focused on "saving" Laura that he doesn't seem to care about the implications it had on people he cared for like Audrey and Diane. (This theme plays out on a lesser scale with Dr Jacoby helping Nadine when he stops his reclusive ramblings and Norma realizing her pies are only her pies when she makes them.)
Merrock was a big buildup to... wind?
Merrock was fan expectation personified, and now it's been vaporized.
Yup.
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So Marrok was a Scooby Doo haunted armor? Night Sister magic…
I just have one observation. I like they had Ahsoka grab the sphere. She could have done what eventually was done, destroyed the sphere with a saber. But she grabbed it. It gave her more depth and shows she’s not the ultra wise person, can make and learn from mistakes. She’s like all of us. She reacted. The whole point of the conversation prior with Sabine was we may have to destroy this only way to find Ezra. But she didn’t. And I loved that the sphere burned her hand. Its consequence. Her conflict in the mission caused her pain as she didn’t want to give up the chance in front of them to find Ezra.
I still think we see Ezra return himself the way he left.Â
Thrawn is coming back on the ship. Will he stay? I’m about 50/50 it’s not just a story to advance the growth of Sabine. Ezra shows to save the day and disappears again. He’s working on another Threat. Come on you delinquents! Snatches Thrawn and his groupie in their disabled ship and flashes away with the Pergyls. Story for another time…Or they are making Thrawn the new Gideon.
Thwipp!
Mando S2 ended MIDSCENE. Luke literally walked in, solved all their problems and walked out with Grogu and CREDITS. Doesn't matter that our characters were on an enemy ship with Gideon konked out, or had their own dramas between one another. No denouement, no moment to digest, no resolution. Terrible storytelling.
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Not spoon-feeding an audience scenes that aren't necessary isn't terrible storytelling, especially if those scenes would only serve to neuter the weight of the aforementioned scene. That's just plain trusting your audience to be intelligent enough to know that the story has ended, but the story goes on.
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I guess in retrospect, a lot of season 3 and I guess Book of Boba Fett should have happened after Din met Ahsoka but before they met Luke. Din wanting to go in the waters and return to The Way etc really felt like a step back. Might have been better to have the Armorer cast him out and tell him the thing about the Mandalorian water, then meet Ahsoka and she tells him the next stop on his quest is also on Mandalore rather than Tython, so those things coincide. Fighting the remnant with Boba Fett could happen in those caves, also with Bo Katan, Din gets purified then whatever they find for Grogu leads them to the next step for season 3. We're also left with the mystery of what the imperials are doing on a seemingly dead planet, setting up the dark troopers and the mandalorian stormtroopers etc etc. Season 3 would be Din trying to fit in with his old group but realizing everything he's been through prevents that from working; he's a different person than the guy in the first episode of the series. Then he pals around with Boba Fett and helps him take over Tatooine but that's not for him either. So he goes to see Bo Katan and they figure out Gideon has been based on Mandalore all along, essentially combining the season 2 and 3 finales into one big raid. Luke still comes to save the day, takes Grogu away, and so on.
This is just off the top of my head though. Give me a writer's room and we'll break that plot hard. 😆
Lost and Twin Peaks
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I also agree 100% about Lost.SpoilerLost and Twin Peaks FRATThe Lost finale made me rethink my whole view of the show in some ways - as more an allegory about how we will never really know why the universe exists, why or how our lives play out as they do, how we often focus on trying to understand and control the unknowable and out of our hands aspects of life instead of living life. So the fact our Lost characters didn't really care what the Island was as much as just wanted for themselves and their friends to live and have a good life was enough. Which is why the characters growing as people throughout the series was important, and the details of the mystery of the island wasn't important to that. They got their happy ending because learning more about Jacob and smoke monsters didn't matter to them...
Note I also think this is the point of Twin Peaks, The Return - Cooper's hubris and fixation that he can intervene in something he (and the audience) doesn't truly understand means he doesn't fix the things he could have - which is why "Dougie" Cooper actually accomplishes more good than "Real" Cooper, who unleashed his doppelganger and ends up so focused on "saving" Laura that he doesn't seem to care about the implications it had on people he cared for like Audrey and Diane. (This theme plays out on a lesser scale with Dr Jacoby helping Nadine when he stops his reclusive ramblings and Norma realizing her pies are only her pies when she makes them.)
The Lost finale definitely made me rethink the show as well. I'd spent probably five seasons at that point watching it every week with my circle of friends, discussing each episode the week after on a forum I created just for us to nerd out and theorize. I was also the continuity keeper, supporting or shooting down theories based on things I remembered from previous episodes. My favorite thing we came up with was about time not being linear, that it all happens at once, and the conclusion of the show was going to depend on that concept. We had so many discussions and thoughts from Lost that I wouldn't trade for anything. But in the end, none of that mattered and I felt like the final bit of them all in the church said exactly that. None of that mattered.
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One of my friends was furious and immediately went into a rant, and my stoic acceptance of that ending enraged him even further since I had been Mr. Continuity. He expected me to vehemently hold onto all the things that had happened and be as upset as he was that a lot of it wasn't resolved. And I'm still surprised by myself too, but... it didn't matter. What mattered, and I genuinely felt this after watching the finale and again when I rewatched the entire series with my brother-in-law, was the connections they made and the emotions behind it all. It sounds almost trite breaking it down like that now but it was such an eye opening experience to realize all the minutiae etc wasn't what was important. It also DOES still seem slightly cop-outish to end it that way, and I do feel some things could have been done better. When they time travel from the 70s, I feel at least SOME of them should have gone back to Jacob's time and actually been a part of that plot, with the stuff at the temple with Hiroyuki Sanada in the past as well. Basically reworking that whole part of the last season. But also, that's neither here nor there since the finale effectively renders all of it moo.
Like you said, the journey ultimately was based in emotion even though I didn't notice that until the very last moment.
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And what you said with Twin Peaks also makes a lot of sense. And that's another show where... that third season was obviously so completely different in so many ways, but I was such a willing passenger on that ride every step of the way. And I guess my reaction to the ending, looking back now, was comparable to when I finished Lost.
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Twin Peaks is something... I got everyone I could to watch that show since I first watched it in 1995. One of my best friends introduced me to David Lynch and that show was the last thing on the list at the time, and I watched his vhs copies in two sittings. It's a perfect binge because coffee is built right in. It was also what broke coffee for me as caffeine no longer wakes me up. but I love that show still, and the movie. I quote it weekly in one way or another. I believe in Coop's 'every day, once a day... give yourself a present' motto, heh. And I think even more than when they announced Star Wars Episode 1, I was shocked when The Return was announced and actually happened. I neeeeeeeeeeever thought they would do it. And I certainly never expected what he did with it. Nor can I believe Showtime let him! But yeah, beneath all the weird Lynchiness, which is still unbelievably fun, entertaining, and disturbing, he absolutely has a theme. Thank you for your take, that makes total sense.
[/spoiler]
The new episode was really good and I enjoyed it a lot. Seeing Hayden as Anakin be more grown up and acting with good direction and dialogue is such a trip and I wish we could go back and get THIS guy in the prequels. Lightsaber fighting is also so far above the mark lately - it really looks like sword-fighting (with lasers) these days and I LOVE it. Makes most of the old saber fights look like absolute garbage by comparison.
BUT, as much as I did like this episode, I think I'd be kind of disappointed if I had paid money to see this in a theater, as some did. Like.. a LOT of the episode was just talking, and what action was there was basically just 'it's all a dream' non-consequential stuff. The flashbacky dream sequence of the Clone Wars and Mandalore was great, but so heavily filtered, shrouded in smoke, and against basically no background that it wasn't exactly mind-blowing or anything.
Very cool for just an episode of a show, but definitely not something I would have been pleased to spend money to go make a whole evening out of seeing.
I didn't mind the look of the flashbacks, but I was hoping for more between Ahsoka and Anakin. Maybe we will get that later in the season, but they didn't get the closure I was hoping for in this episode. Maybe for that reason I was disappointed in the rest of it, given the solution of following Sabine et al seemed pretty obvious from a few episodes ago.Â
I need to watch it again, I think it was a good and maybe great episode but on first viewing I felt let down, if that makes sense.Â
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