I've been a little apathetic about the latest MCU movies and shows, but a recent conversation with my son reminded me of how stoked I was through pretty much all of the Infinity Saga.
So I decided to recapture that and slowly crawl my way through the first few phases. I obviously started with Iron Man, and I have some thoughts.
- It's hard to believe today, but Terrence Howard was the biggest star in this movie. Of course people my age knew who Robert Downey Jr. was, but remembered him as a former up-and-comer who'd tossed his career away with drugs and crimes. I think that knowledge really helped sell him as this devil may care playboy. His version of Stark, the rock-n-roll genius, was way more interesting than what we had in the comics at the time. There's no way this movie would've succeeded with businessman Stark.
- I'd thought also being a comic reader cost me some plot twists, but I also rewatched the trailer, and right there they're showing Stane with the Ten Rings guy and getting into Iron Monger suit. No plot twists for anybody.
- The armor is so logical, with its plated metal look (that are actually flight control surfaces). All the elements evolved naturally, from the arc reactor powering a magnet to keep shrapnel from his heart (is that a real procedure?) to the repulsors beginning as flight stabilizers. I love the robot-assisted suit-up scene and just noticed the helmet actually has eyeholes. There's light coming through before the HUD powers up.
- Speaking of the HUD, what a great way to show the actor's face. So much better than the flip-away helmets we'd get later on.
- I've complained that I didn't like the forced future romance with Pepper, but it's right there from the start. How did I miss it? They're so dependent on each other. And the charity event sequence was so smoothly set that I remember, in my first viewing, that I'd forgotten Tony had left her on the roof until she reminded him of it at the end.
- How long does Tony have to hold that flight position going from California to Gulmira? Looks awful.
- Heh. "Box of scraps!" Immortal line.
- The movie kind of dips for me once Stane goes 200% villain. I get that he must feel desperate when he sees that Pepper copied all his files, but what really is his plan? I can't quite follow the thought process that lead him to a public street brawl in a 12' robot suit.
- That final fight is also a little stuttery for me. Like, Tony draining the last of his power to lure Stane to where he can take advantage of a design flaw was really smart and tense. But then he's just okay again on the ground so we can have a reeaaally drawn out sequence where Pepper gets to help defeat him. Like, how many times can Stane miss an immobile man with his machine guns and rockets. But at least we get a skybeam. Who knew that would go on to become a superhero movie tradition?
- Anybody remember how jaw-droppingly unexpected it was for Tony to reveal that he was Iron Man?
- I remember the Nick Fury cameo at the end was a big deal too, if only for hinting that we could be getting all the Avengers. I don't think we would've known about any upcoming Thor movie yet.
- And not for nothing, I don't think post-credit scenes were a thing back then. Maybe the last one I'd seen was Ferris Bueller?
All told, just a great movie. An honest, holds up on its own great movie. Maybe the reason the ending felt so weak was that the rest was so flawless.
I rewatched all the Guardians movies the other day. The MCU doesn't really do cohesive trilogies, but those 3 are still really good on a re-watch. I think the third one is my favorite.
I also rewatched the Captain America "trilogy" a couple weeks ago and love all of those movies too.
I'm thinking I'll go for all 3 Iron Man movies next, although at this point I probably should have just committed to a re-watch of the MCU in order.
I've been a little apathetic about the latest MCU movies and shows, but a recent conversation with my son reminded me of how stoked I was through pretty much all of the Infinity Saga.
So I decided to recapture that and slowly crawl my way through the first few phases. I obviously started with Iron Man, and I have some thoughts.
I think this is great and I'm REALLY curious how they hold up. When Age of Ultron came out, I felt it was at least as good as the first Avengers, but appreciated skipping all the 'they need to meet and figure out they're a team' stuff, and jump right into it. But I also felt, perhaps incorrectly, that a lot of negativity toward AOU was seeing the first one for only the great parts. And there are plenty. But with Iron Man, for instance, I think a lot of people just remember the Mark 1 stuff, all the action sequences with mark 3, and his quips etc. As you said later, it's not a perfect film, and it definitely suffers from the third act problem a lot of comedies and action movies have (since it's basically: okay, we've had some fun but let's wrap this up). Though I feel Iron Man's third act problem is really not bad, but yeah, the part when he's hanging there repeatedly telling Pepper to do it drags just a bit.
So I'm curious to see if your opinion of what was great and what wasn't has changed at all with all the Multiverse saga movie in mind.
- It's hard to believe today, but Terrence Howard was the biggest star in this movie. Of course people my age knew who Robert Downey Jr. was, but remembered him as a former up-and-comer who'd tossed his career away with drugs and crimes. I think that knowledge really helped sell him as this devil may care playboy. His version of Stark, the rock-n-roll genius, was way more interesting than what we had in the comics at the time. There's no way this movie would've succeeded with businessman Stark.
That's pretty crazy, yeah. Honestly, I'm not even sure how many movies I'd seen Howard in at the time. I'd seen far more with Cheadle, heh. And Paltrow was a pretty big get at the time, I feel like. I'd need several hands to count how many movies I'd seen with Bridges though. And I was a fan of Downey, even though my favorite performance of his at the time may have been Soapdish, heh.
- I'd thought also being a comic reader cost me some plot twists, but I also rewatched the trailer, and right there they're showing Stane with the Ten Rings guy and getting into Iron Monger suit. No plot twists for anybody.
Damn! I don't even remember the trailers at all. Just the bit with him flying I think.
- The armor is so logical, with its plated metal look (that are actually flight control surfaces). All the elements evolved naturally, from the arc reactor powering a magnet to keep shrapnel from his heart (is that a real procedure?) to the repulsors beginning as flight stabilizers. I love the robot-assisted suit-up scene and just noticed the helmet actually has eyeholes. There's light coming through before the HUD powers up.
Yeah, I appreciate how he suits up later, especially for screentime and wanting to get to the action faster, but the suit up part in the first movie is still captivating.
That's one thing that's special to me about Iron Man is my dad is really into motorcycles, and cars to a slightly lesser extent. And he isn't into nerd stuff at all, so Iron man was something I was shocked to find out he'd watched entirely on his own. And he loved it, wouldn't stop talking about it. Basically a flying motorcycle you wear. By that time, Iron Man 2 had come out so I showed him that and he found it snoozeworthy. As far as I know, he hasn't watched any other Marvel movies. So, it's another special thing about Iron Man for me, to share that with him a little.
- I've complained that I didn't like the forced future romance with Pepper, but it's right there from the start. How did I miss it? They're so dependent on each other. And the charity event sequence was so smoothly set that I remember, in my first viewing, that I'd forgotten Tony had left her on the roof until she reminded him of it at the end.
The only comics I'd read with Iron Man by 2008 wasn't even Tony, since it was Secret Wars. So I had no idea who Pepper even was then, so it never stood out to me except as another window to his personality, though I'm glad she got some business at the end. AND she saved him in Iron Man 3 as well.
- The movie kind of dips for me once Stane goes 200% villain. I get that he must feel desperate when he sees that Pepper copied all his files, but what really is his plan? I can't quite follow the thought process that lead him to a public street brawl in a 12' robot suit.
I get that... maybe temporary insanity? his frustration and such with Tony finally overtakes him? When people reach that violent stage, rationality has usually left them, so I dunno.
- That final fight is also a little stuttery for me. Like, Tony draining the last of his power to lure Stane to where he can take advantage of a design flaw was really smart and tense. But then he's just okay again on the ground so we can have a reeaaally drawn out sequence where Pepper gets to help defeat him. Like, how many times can Stane miss an immobile man with his machine guns and rockets. But at least we get a skybeam. Who knew that would go on to become a superhero movie tradition?
Yeah, the end battle probably has an extra beat too many.
- Anybody remember how jaw-droppingly unexpected it was for Tony to reveal that he was Iron Man?
Absolutely. But made such sense.
- I remember the Nick Fury cameo at the end was a big deal too, if only for hinting that we could be getting all the Avengers. I don't think we would've known about any upcoming Thor movie yet.
I think, if I remember correctly, we had a hint of Thor and Cap coming because at comic con Feige made a comment about it, and how it was no mistake their first few movies were founding members of the Avengers. (Ant-Man was also planned to come before Avengers at the time.)
- And not for nothing, I don't think post-credit scenes were a thing back then. Maybe the last one I'd seen was Ferris Bueller?
Brilliant. And I think you're right. Ferris Bueller and Masters of the Universe heh.
Speaking of Ferris, I wrote an article once comparing Ferris Bueller's Day Off to Captain America: The Winter Soldier. People REALLY got pissed about it like I'd committed blasphemy, but it's all right there. The main character is unchanged by the end of the story, having been proven his way was the right way, while his best friend is the one who takes the journey to overcome his issue. The authority figure who should be an ally is actually a villain. I put way more thought into it at the time than I care to remember right now.
All told, just a great movie. An honest, holds up on its own great movie. Maybe the reason the ending felt so weak was that the rest was so flawless.
I agree. The ending isn't terrible at all, to me, but the second act really overshadows it.
And the other thing I can't help but mention anytime discussing Iron Man is they didn't have a script and it still upsets me. As I've said plenty of times, I have always firmly believed a great script is the necessary foundation for any great movie, and Iron Man was mostly improvised so it completely disproves that idea. Bastards.
Iron Man also does really well because it's utterly free from any world building or connections. Yeah you have Nick Fury at the end, but it was a fun throwaway thing. And really, most of the credit scenes are throwaway things, and half of them don't even make sense later. Thor's with Loki and Selvig? The Avengers negates it, and it was filmed by Whedon right before he did The Avengers! But Iron Man didn't have to worry about any of that. And I appreciate connections or shout-outs or even continuing threads from other movies, but I don't need it. I do still think it's kinda cool to continue so many threads from Incredible Hulk, and I haven't seen Cap 4 yet, but it sounds like maybe it would have been better to focus more on Sam's story than resolving things from a 17 year old movie that didn't do all that well.
Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts and I really look forward to more.
My wife wanted to rewatch the X-Men movies so we dove in last week. 1 and 2, dated as they are, still have their entertainment value. I never liked 3 and I maintain that after its latest rewatch. I hate that they killed Cyclops, hate that they killed Prof X, didn't like their kinda-sorta take on the Dark Phoenix saga, didn't like that Rogue took the "cure". First Class was OK but should have trimmed the fat and been JUST an Xavier and Magneto movie with a dash of Mystique. Heck, a whole movie where Magneto just travels the globe getting revenge would have been great. Every other mutant in that movie besides those mentioned and Beast just end up as cannon fodder either in this or subsequent movies. Days of Future Past is pretty good, probably the best of the franchise. They did a good job mixing the new and old cast, the story is strong, and it retconned the hated X3 (Sure, I get there was a mutant in X3 that Xavier was able to transfer his mind to, but how does he end up looking like Patrick Stewart? This is one of those instances where I don't care about the particulars, I'm just glad they wiped out what they did). That's as far as we got so far. Apocalypse is next, I know it's not particularly well liked, I remember thinking it was OK. I know I didn't like Dark Phoenix, I only saw it once. Maybe I'll notice some redeeming things about it during a rewatch, but I'm not counting on it.
We knew Incredible Hulk was coming after Iron Man, but both Thor and Cap were cast and started production after IM was released - I think we knew that they had recovered the rights and wanted to pursue the Avengers, but it was more of a rumor than a plan.
I think the argument can be made that Iron Man II was the film that really started the "MCU" interconnectedness proper - as Fury, Widow, etc. were in the film, and the post-credits with Thor's hammer was a huge thing as not just an Easter Egg like Cap's shield in Incredible Hulk but a real scene, that was the template for post-credits actually being about the next film.
I'd argue that Jeff Bridges was the biggest name in the first IM.
As for X-Men, I actually liked the third one - I know most did not but I thought the idea of "what happened to Scott" being a bit of "jean couldn't have, could she?" and Jean killing Prof X (I thought that was a pretty intense scene and well done) and the idea that some might be tempted by taking the cure - like Rogue given how her powers meant she was cut off from people physically* - was all good stuff. Jean was unleashed and powerful, not blow up a star powerful, but scary enough powerful and I thought Logan having to kill her was a good end to his character arc at the time. I sometimes wonder if it wasn't compared to the epic and cosmic Dark Phoenix Saga if it would have been so disliked.
*I think if someone associates mutants as an allegory to race or sexual identity, then Rogue taking the "cure" was a bad message - I think if you viewed Rogue's power as a disability like being blind or deaf or paralyzed, then it is more of a question of do you want to see or hear or walk or not or stay as you have been. I know some in those communities feel the disability is part of their identity and might not want to change if offered, but it is an interesting choice.
I so much wanted the X-Men to have been in Mojo's realm "acting" in the Fox films which is why they make no sense in terms of continuity, Wolverine is tall, the Prof dies and comes back, Deadpool knows he is in a film, etc. Would have been such a crazy concept that in the MCU they had seen the X-Men films, so didn't believe it once the real X-Men escaped and returned to reality...
RE: Scripts - there are ultimately three parts to scripts, right? The plot and set-piece sequences, the characters - arcs and personalities, and the dialog. IM had a solid plot/sequences and good characterization, so improvised dialog at times likely fit into that framework - I think if the framework is really good, then the dialog can at times be revised to be more natural as the cast and director get a feel for it. I suspect improvisation only works when the core is solid to build from.
We knew Incredible Hulk was coming after Iron Man, but both Thor and Cap were cast and started production after IM was released - I think we knew that they had recovered the rights and wanted to pursue the Avengers, but it was more of a rumor than a plan.
Well sure. They were actively developing those movies, but I definitely think Marvel has always had a lot less of a plan than fans ever gave them credit for. And not as a criticism either, since it tended to work most of the time.
I think the argument can be made that Iron Man II was the film that really started the "MCU" interconnectedness proper - as Fury, Widow, etc. were in the film, and the post-credits with Thor's hammer was a huge thing as not just an Easter Egg like Cap's shield in Incredible Hulk but a real scene, that was the template for post-credits actually being about the next film.
The Incredible Hulk credit scene seemed more like a start to interconnectedness, but I'm content to just ignore it and take Iron Man 2 as the start.
I'd argue that Jeff Bridges was the biggest name in the first IM.
No argument. I don't know how many blockbusters he ever got, but he was in a ton of movies I watched at least.
As for X-Men, I actually liked the third one - I know most did not but I thought the idea of "what happened to Scott" being a bit of "jean couldn't have, could she?" and Jean killing Prof X (I thought that was a pretty intense scene and well done)
Well, and were they going for an ending? That's one thing comic fans have always had trouble with, and I have certainly been guilty of it at times, that with comics you can stretch stories out for years, filling thirty pages every month, while movies can only go so long. At most, what can you do? Eight like Harry Potter? Yes they did more X-men movies, but obviously the series was even less planned than the MCU. But if they went into the third movie thinking 'Let's wrap this up', then yeah... killing Cyclops, and especially Charles, that was pretty incredible and I totally get why they took it there. But the X-men movies always felt even less interested in adapting the comics than the MCU has. More like Tim Burton style where they took the ideas, the characters, and did their own thing with them.
RE: Scripts - there are ultimately three parts to scripts, right? The plot and set-piece sequences, the characters - arcs and personalities, and the dialog. IM had a solid plot/sequences and good characterization, so improvised dialog at times likely fit into that framework - I think if the framework is really good, then the dialog can at times be revised to be more natural as the cast and director get a feel for it. I suspect improvisation only works when the core is solid to build from.
I guess so, as far as the three parts, but I've never really... I haven't written a script in ages now, but yeah, I would plot and make lists of character windows, scenes and moments to show who they were and what they had to overcome, as well as set-pieces and such, but dialogue has always been such an integral part of how I wrote that having a script without it feels severely unfinished heh. Obviously the proof is in the pudding, and part of me is clearly in awe of what they all accomplished with Iron Man. But even now, when I write things, sometimes I'll just write a conversation, bantering back and forth with quotations to mark change in character speaking, because it's, like I said, such an integral part of how I write anything. Roddy Doyle wrote an amazing book called Two For The Road that I fell completely in love with and my editor even told me that's something I could probably emulate if I wanted, because it's just two people talking through several different visits. No real context, no real character development, and no real events beyond what they discuss together. It's amazing to me and I wish I'd thought of it first! If only I'd allowed myself to not finish things, heh.
And the other thing I can't help but mention anytime discussing Iron Man is they didn't have a script
I'd heard there was a lot of improv, but I didn't know that was the plan. I remember there being some scenes in Iron Man 2 where Gwyneth Paltrow didn't seem able to keep up with RDJ's improv, but if that's how this movie ran, it's not nearly as noticeable. Paltrow was way better in this movie than I remember her being, so if she was improving across from Downey then she deserves a lot more credit from me.
I'd argue that Jeff Bridges was the biggest name in the first IM
That's a fair argument. I remember watching the original Tron with my then-12yo son around that time and he recognized Flynn as Obadiah. That's got to count for something. Howard was the highest paid actor for this movie, but I can't name anything else he'd done since Jerry MaGuire and that dogsled movie.
I so much wanted the X-Men to have been in Mojo's realm "acting" in the Fox films which is why they make no sense in terms of continuity,
Love it. This is a hilarious idea, and all you'd have to do is have people in the black leather costumes standing out of focus on a soundstage in the background while Mojo yells at Spiral.
@fletch Well... you still can't name anything he's been in because he wasn't in those movies, heh. Really awesome of your son though. I love when kids start catching on to actors from other things.
I had to look Howard up to remember what he'd done. I saw him in Dead Presidents but don't remember him, and saw him in Crash and DO remember him in that.
And yeah, Iron Man 2 was actually scripted... I'm sure Downey did his thing here and there, but he brought Justin Theroux to write it after he did writing on Tropic Thunder. And I still FAR from hate Iron Man 2, yet it's not as good as the first, I definitely admit that. But it pains me that the scripted one is lesser in quality! but I never minded the table setting for Avengers that some really express distaste for now. I don't get it. We all wanted Avengers! Meanwhile people complain about a movie having too much to do in just two hours... well which is it?! Do you want another movie to help set things up or not?!
you still can't name anything he's been in because he wasn't in those movies, heh.
Wait. Who am I thinking of?
I rewatched all the Guardians movies the other day. The MCU doesn't really do cohesive trilogies, but those 3 are still really good on a re-watch. I think the third one is my favorite.
The GoG movies aren't all homeruns, but they're all at least RBIs. Or something. I don't play baseball.
I'll have some thoughts when I get to them, but I think Marvel took the wrong lessons from these movies successes. Thor should not be a slapstick comedy.
although at this point I probably should have just committed to a re-watch of the MCU in order.
Do it.
In fact, I'd meant to invite everyone to join in. I'm only ahead by one, and it takes me a few days to get through a movie since I'm only able to watch them in chunks.
I'm only up to the part where Tim Roth is confronting Edward Norton in the bottling factory.
Seriously. And I think, my guess, he was simply cast first and marvel was dumb with budgets? Or dumber than Terence Howard at least.
Managed to finish up The Incredible Hulk this morning. It's a pretty straightforward Hulk movie. It doesn't make a lot of mistakes but also doesn't reach any great heights. I like it a lot more than most do, but it's fairly journeyman. Still, it's miles ahead of the last attempt at a Hulk movie.
- Edward Norton is SO good as Bruce Banner. I was really disappointed that he got replaced in the Avengers movie and dumbfounded that Mark Ruffalo had been their first choice all along. Ruffalo's a good actor, but his Banner was just kind of a schlub. Norton had tons of nerd energy and suppressed anger. If you haven't seen Death to Smoochy, I recommend it. Some day AI will be so good that I can just replace Ruffalo with Norton in all the other movies and I'll have a perfect MCU.
- On the other hand, maybe it's because I'm a Jennifer Connelly Stan, but I liked her Betty in the Bana Hulk movie way more than Liv Tyler's. She just seemed more engaged as a scientist AND a love interest. Tyler suffers here in that she's not used at all as a fellow scientist and her lack of chemistry with Norton means she can't really manage as a love interest either.
- Finishing out the main cast, William Hurt was amazing in this. Far better than I remember him being. Not that I thought he was bad, just that he wasn't memorable to younger me. On rewatch, though, he fully sells every scene he's in and nails the military commander roll. Tim Roth, on the other hand, is one of the least convincing SPECOPS soldiers I've ever seen. Now, I absolutely love him as an actor, but still wonder how he got this part. Maybe it was for his ability to portray the power addiction that drives his metamotphosis, but I don't think that came across as well as it could have.
- I really liked the gradual reveal of the Hulk over the course of the movie. A real escalation like an actual monster movie. Especially the first scene in the bottling factory where he's this unseen force. You forget who you're supposed to be rooting for.
- At the time I liked how they did some world building by tying Banner's experiments into trying to recreate the super-soldier serum. Seeing the full scene again though, I'm really underwhelmed. On the one hand, Ross comes across way more intentionally villainous than I think we needed, but on the same hand, Banner became the Hulk by experimenting on himself. You lose a lot of my sympathy when you're the victim of your own stupidity.
- The only good scene in the Eric Bana Hulk movie was where he's demolishing those tanks. It's a real step down to see him here just knocking over Humvees. I don't remember my original reaction to this scene, but it didn't really wow me today.
- It was really fun seeing Blonsky as a proto-Captain America, though. Even as I wondered what I thought he was going to accomplish, it was a fun watch.
- We're still not at the tech level that gave us such a seamless Hulk in the Avengers, but he still looks alright. The choice to desaturate the green was okay, but I think that shows some embarrassment about the premise. Commit to a green Hulk you cowards! It's really blunt toward the end when Ross calls Hulk "the green one." I guess the Abomination's not actually green?
- True story: when I first saw this, I did not at all recognize that Betty's psychiatrist boyfriend was Doc Sampson or that Sam Stern was the Leader. I wasn't that into Hulk at the time and had to have them explained to me. Even more than that, I somehow missed Stern's head swelling under the drip of gamma blood at the end. I left the theater with no concept that the Leader had been teased at all.
- An unexpected one-shot of the two soldiers witnessing the Abomination take to the streets. I had to watch it twice just to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. Those nameless soldiers were great and I now wish they had been recurring characters in the MCU. Booyah indeed, my friend.
- Kind of a lame final reveal of the Abomination, though. After all the distant destruction like how they'd slow-revealed the Hulk, they just go "here he is" in a full frontal body shot. No pull out reveal or slow pan up. Not even a turn to face the camera. Wasn't crazy for the design either, but they did do a good job of giving him a distinctive silhouette. I had no trouble tracking who was who during a nighttime punch-up. It still feels out of character for the Hulk to win by choking him with a chain. That seems very un-Hulklike, but they did have a lot of variety during the fight (such as the sedan boxing gloves) that it never felt repetitive.
- At the time, him yelling "Hulk smash!" was a real hooray moment, but now I just wonder if anybody has ever actually called him the Hulk. They did a very unsubtle "abomination" name drop, but I'm not ready to watch it all again to see if there's a "Hulk" said somewheres.
Like I said, I like this movie more than most, but the rewatch didn't really move my needle much. My new appreciation for William Hurt's performance is canceled out by how unnecessarily villainous he is (and how self-inflicted Banners problems are.)
Managed to finish up The Incredible Hulk this morning. It's a pretty straightforward Hulk movie. It doesn't make a lot of mistakes but also doesn't reach any great heights. I like it a lot more than most do, but it's fairly journeyman. Still, it's miles ahead of the last attempt at a Hulk movie.
I think I agree with all this. Straightforward, nothing too spectacular, but engaging enough, and definitely an improvement over the Bana movie in most ways. I appreciate what they were doing with the split frames on the Bana one, and I like Bana as an actor, but I don't think the frames really worked for me, and of course the CG was early CG. Also, I didn't need his dad to be Absorbing Man. or Nick Nolte, heh.
- Edward Norton is SO good as Bruce Banner. I was really disappointed that he got replaced in the Avengers movie and dumbfounded that Mark Ruffalo had been their first choice all along. Ruffalo's a good actor, but his Banner was just kind of a schlub. Norton had tons of nerd energy and suppressed anger. If you haven't seen Death to Smoochy, I recommend it. Some day AI will be so good that I can just replace Ruffalo with Norton in all the other movies and I'll have a perfect MCU.
I agree he was great in this. I'm okay with Ruffalo, and I think having AI fix it one way or the other is a brilliant idea. I've often wished they would Special Edition Cheadle into Iron Man.
- On the other hand, maybe it's because I'm a Jennifer Connelly Stan, but I liked her Betty in the Bana Hulk movie way more than Liv Tyler's. She just seemed more engaged as a scientist AND a love interest. Tyler suffers here in that she's not used at all as a fellow scientist and her lack of chemistry with Norton means she can't really manage as a love interest either.
Well... I cannot argue with you about Connelly. I appreciate they had her voice Peter's AI, especially after Bettany, but I would love if she got more to do with marvel.
- Finishing out the main cast, William Hurt was amazing in this. Far better than I remember him being. Not that I thought he was bad, just that he wasn't memorable to younger me. On rewatch, though, he fully sells every scene he's in and nails the military commander roll. Tim Roth, on the other hand, is one of the least convincing SPECOPS soldiers I've ever seen. Now, I absolutely love him as an actor, but still wonder how he got this part. Maybe it was for his ability to portray the power addiction that drives his metamotphosis, but I don't think that came across as well as it could have.
Hurt definitely wasn't phoning in anything in this movie, and he totally could have. And probably STILL been called back for Civil War. And yeah, this was a point in Roth's career where I wasn't as into him. Though he is great on Lie To Me.
- I really liked the gradual reveal of the Hulk over the course of the movie. A real escalation like an actual monster movie. Especially the first scene in the bottling factory where he's this unseen force. You forget who you're supposed to be rooting for.
The reveal works for the first time, but any rewatch I did, I usually skipped to the college part. but you're right, int he bottle factory it's well done. Definitely tying into the same kinda idea behind werewolf movies.
- The only good scene in the Eric Bana Hulk movie was where he's demolishing those tanks. It's a real step down to see him here just knocking over Humvees. I don't remember my original reaction to this scene, but it didn't really wow me today.
Agree on the tank scene. i think it's the only one I've ever shown my son, who was a massive Hulk fan when he was young. But he loved the Norton movie, my mom got him a dvd set of the old 80s cartoon, and of course he'd watch all the scenes with Hulk in Avengers over and over.
But it's also funny because Bana's Hulk looks remarkably like my brother in law, so seeing a slightly larger, green version of his uncle beating up tanks was fun for him too.
- True story: when I first saw this, I did not at all recognize that Betty's psychiatrist boyfriend was Doc Sampson or that Sam Stern was the Leader. I wasn't that into Hulk at the time and had to have them explained to me. Even more than that, I somehow missed Stern's head swelling under the drip of gamma blood at the end. I left the theater with no concept that the Leader had been teased at all.
I think only a few people got that was supposed to be Doc Sampson. And when other people learned it, by then they asked, "Wait... Phil Dunphy?"
- An unexpected one-shot of the two soldiers witnessing the Abomination take to the streets. I had to watch it twice just to make sure I saw what I thought I saw. Those nameless soldiers were great and I now wish they had been recurring characters in the MCU. Booyah indeed, my friend.
I may have to watch it again, but I have a vague idea of what you're referring to. I remember something happening there though.
- Kind of a lame final reveal of the Abomination, though. After all the distant destruction like how they'd slow-revealed the Hulk, they just go "here he is" in a full frontal body shot. No pull out reveal or slow pan up. Not even a turn to face the camera. Wasn't crazy for the design either, but they did do a good job of giving him a distinctive silhouette. I had no trouble tracking who was who during a nighttime punch-up. It still feels out of character for the Hulk to win by choking him with a chain. That seems very un-Hulklike, but they did have a lot of variety during the fight (such as the sedan boxing gloves) that it never felt repetitive.
Yeah, I was never hot on Abomination's look either. I get it for the movie, and that's fine, but not something I wanted on my shelf. his look in Shang Chi is an improvement, but I'd love if they went even further with him.
- At the time, him yelling "Hulk smash!" was a real hooray moment, but now I just wonder if anybody has ever actually called him the Hulk. They did a very unsubtle "abomination" name drop, but I'm not ready to watch it all again to see if there's a "Hulk" said somewheres.
I'm not sure really. I don't think so...
And yeah, that and the War Machine name drop in Iron Man 2... kinda clever but also too timid. Just give 'em names!
Anyway, thank you again for sharing your thoughts!
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