Not a great movie, unfortunately. The climax of the film was shown almost entirely in the trailers so there's really not much you're missing if you skip this one.
Here's hoping things only get better from here. This definitely ranks among the bottom of the MCU, although still not as bad as Secret Invasion.
I feel like this movie would definitely have benefitted from some Cobie. Or Emily VanCamp. Or Valentina.
Having two new, completely uninspired, underwritten and only okay-acted female characters did not help. Heck, Monica and Mackie had chemistry in What If - too bad she got shunted to the side.
This movie would have benefitted from Bruce Banner, considering it's basically a sequel to the incredible hulk.
So I think, honestly, we get this because there is some acknowledgement/push from the studio that a big segment of movie audience doesn't participate in the Disney+ content and so rehashing these ideas that were explored in the serialized show content is necessary for movie audiences.
Structurally as well as thematically. Why there are those big info dumps in the film for people who didn't watch or 2nd screen the TV shows.
This definitely ranks among the bottom of the MCU, although still not as bad as Secret Invasion.
I've seen Thor Love and Thunder, so things can only get better from there.
I'm not in a hurry to see Cap IV, unfortunately. I'll catch it on streaming. I think FF is the only MCU project I'm going to allow myself some excitement for.
This definitely ranks among the bottom of the MCU, although still not as bad as Secret Invasion.
I've seen Thor Love and Thunder, so things can only get better from there.
I'm not in a hurry to see Cap IV, unfortunately. I'll catch it on streaming. I think FF is the only MCU project I'm going to allow myself some excitement for.
This is only marginally better than Love and Thunder.
Thunderbolts and Fantastic 4 need to be much better movies
I don't think BNW has the rewatchability factor of L&T. That had chemistry and fun villainy and some inventive, beautiful scenes and BNW has... Mackie and Ramirez really trying to make it work. L&T I have rewatched and still found issues with but it IS rewatchable - I enjoy spending time with those characters even if they deserved a much better script. I have no desire to watch BNW again and I don't think I'll see it a second time in the theatre - and I've seen every Marvel movie at least twice in the theatre for over a decade.
Pancha, I thought that convo brought up at that point in time and with the other character in that scene made complete sense - yes, it was a rehash BUT it was both thematically and structurally important to *this* story to touch on at this moment. And that's the exact convo the two of them would have had.
What BNW really suffered from was what happened next - why did that character leave? Why wasn't Bruce EVER involved? Red Hulk felt like the wrong villain for this film and possibly Leader. We've moved on so far - literally 13 years - from Leader that he probably should have stayed off screen. And once William Hurt died, this story lost a lot of its relevance. Honestly, from concept on up, this movie is just misguided. Which is kinda exactly what I hoped it wouldn't be after TFAWS totally mucked up its story.
Love and Thunder was awfull. Unwatchable garbage that was filmed for no clear purpose. Same as the Ant-Man Quantumania...or Multiverse of Clowness...or any other MCU project in the last few years.
BNW is just bad. Just like TFAWS. That TV Show has completely ruined the main characters, except maybe Zemo. And Walker was 100% right. But hey, "You've got to do better senator".
This movie script is just doesn't make ANY sense. The longer you think, the dumber it gets.
The Leader who could just directly controlled Ross, made him do absolutely anything that would ruin his reputation, chose not to...Instead he came up with this idiotic convoluted plan to turn Ross into the Red Hulk. Red Hulk, that was beaten by a dude with no superpowers, because taking serum is bad...? Did everyone forget what the Abraham Erskine was trying to say? I guess the writers did. But don't worry, he's been given a super Vibranium nano-suit...or something. He is cool now.
Also, now you just need some pills to turn into Hulk ahahahaha...ugh.
Luckily Marvel is almost done pushing out their last floaters and hopefully things can be redeemed with FF and whatever comes next. There is no superhero movie fatigue, just bad movie fatigue.
Caught a showing last night, and I'd say I was neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed- I was just whelmed. Was it godawful? No. It was well made enough, especially considering all the trouble it supposedly went through. Far from the worst superhero movie I've seen, but even farther from the best. I will say, though, it was a pretty packed crowd, and the only time the audience really reacted was with the 2 3rd act cameos, and Giancarlo's last scene.
I do think it could've benefitted from a longer runtime. Some parts felt like they flew by way too fast, especially in the beginning. Some of the dialogue (the parts that weren't ADR'd to hell, of which there were many) was a little cringey at times- either way too much exposition, or just wasn't sold well enough, like the moment with Joaquin and Isaiah about the phones- it came across more as improvised lines that they just kept in the film. And the amount of talking on the phone felt quite odd for a superhero film, at least one like this. I get that they were going for that whole "spy thriller espionage" thing again, but it just didn't feel quite right. Especially for a villain like Leader, who actually does have some interesting powers (even if they decided to forego them for this movie); for him to essentially be on the run throughout the whole film, but then
I hope we get to see more of him in the future, because this didn't really feel like Leader- it could've been any villain, really and not made a difference.
I do think the performances were pretty good, given what they had to work with. I didn't mind Anthony Mackie- I thought he did a good enough job of someone wrestling with the frustration of doing justice to the mantle and trying to do right. He felt like an older, wiser version of Sam, which was nice, and not like he was shoehorned in to fit with Steve's ideals. I think they did a good enough job of differentiating him from Steve- he felt more brutal in a way, even without the serum. Joaquin worked for me in small doses- he was very much the Robin of the movie- that boyish, overly eager character. It was nice to get a little bit of levity, even if it did feel like he was more targeted towards kids. Ruth was fine, but really needed to be a bit less serious. I get that she was ex-Widow, but even Natasha had some dry wit to her at times, whereas Ruth really only had one small moment of levity. I agree that her height was a little distracting too; I know it's not the actress' fault, and I don't mean to be rude, but she really does look like a child next to some of the bigger guys. Part of me is glad they didn't go for the (no pun intended) low blow of calling out and making a joke of her height, but part of me kinda wishes that they'd have poked fun at least once, just to let the audience know they're aware of it and can move on. Giancarlo and Tim were fun, if both underutilized, but it was clear that both of them just enjoyed being there. Harrison was a nice surprise too; I think he did quite well with the role. It felt to me like it could've benefitted from more build-up, even a whole movie's worth before they committed to the Red Hulk. It didn't help that the marketing gave away most of it, but I think he still did good. It was interesting seeing him attempt to take the material seriously- whereas with Star Wars, there was always that dry tongue-in-cheek attitude about it all, here it felt like he was much more earnest with his handling of schlocky comic booky topics.
Overall, it felt kinda middling for me. The aerial battle was the highlight for sure, but I could've taken or left the rest of it. Closest thing I can think of to describe it is- it felt like those issues of a comic in between big arcs- where they need a little bit more setup to establish what's about to happen, so you get like 2-3 filler issues that's mostly just buildup that won't get referred to all that often going forward. Or that finale episode of a season, where they wrapped things up in the penultimate episode, but still have one more episode to tie up loose ends and set up the next act. It was clearly hacked to pieces and reassembled, and ended up as a bit of a polished turd. I don't regret seeing it- it was a decent enough way to spend 2 hours, but I also don't see myself going back to rewatch it often (if at all).
I am quite excited for the next 2 releases, though. I know that, if Feige is to be believed, the movies and shows will be more streamlined and handled carefully from here on out, and this kind of felt like a sacrificial lamb in that regard- reworking things, even beyond saving, in order to fit with what's ahead, which had more thought put into it. I can see myself appreciating this a bit more in retrospect, depending on how things turn out.
I very much enjoyed the movie because it ties a bunch of the MCU's disparate parts into a larger whole. I always thought the wings+shield combo was stupid in the comics but live action totally makes it all work; and the DBox seat had me completely in every moment of them two dudes flying.
I want to see more Carl Lumbly as Isaiah Bradley. Let's give the man an adult's haircut, tho.
Saw it over the weekend and it was fine. Not terrible, just average. Harrison Ford (Thaddeus Ross) was better than usual. Sidewinder (Giancarlo Esposito) was underutilized. Leader/Samuel Stearns (Tim Blake Nelson) had an unsatisfying character arc that made no sense. Sam Wilson (Anthony Mackie) was on the better side of average. Carl Lumbly (Isaiah Bradley) was the best part.
I think there is really a lot to be said about Isaiah and his scenes. A man burned, again and again, by his country despite his contributions. His pleas to be careful of his suit, a symbol of respect, while he's being forced to the ground broke my heart.
People much more articulate than I can do a better job of analyzing it, but it was a very significant and powerful performance to me.
I think there is really a lot to be said about Isaiah and his scenes. A man burned, again and again, by his country despite his contributions. His pleas to be careful of his suit, a symbol of respect, while he's being forced to the ground broke my heart.People much more articulate than I can do a better job of analyzing it, but it was a very significant and powerful performance to me.
The continued patriotism from Black Americans - and Natives - will never be anything but humbling, and baffling, to me. It's difficult to reconcile how they've been treated, the women especially, with the purity of hope and desire for simple respect against that treatment. It's not lost on me that the two strongest voices against the GOP are both women of color.
Ah the joys of discussion and the varying opinions. I have enjoyed every MCU film to varying degrees. I loved Brave New World. Loved it even more the second time I saw it. Thor Love and Thunder is probably my least favorite and most forgettable MCU movie. They took what worked so well in Ragnarok and turned it up to a silly level that just didn't work in what should have been one of the more emotionally brutal movies with what happens with Jane. I appreciated the more grounded take with BNW after all the multiverse stuff. I also just love Cap more than any other Marvel Hero whether it's Steve, Bucky or Sam. BNW-for me personally-ranks in the top half of MCU films and I will watch it many more times. Truth is my criteria for a successful movie is if for my money was I entertained and I definitely was with BNW and all the MCU movies. Some I just don't have a desire to rewatch over and over again. I appreciate reading other opinions and viewpoints. It makes life more interesting!
They took what worked so well in Ragnarok and turned it up to a silly level that just didn't work in what should have been one of the more emotionally brutal movies with what happens with Jane.
I agree with this, the tonal shifts to silliness hurt the film, and I dislike parts of that, but still felt the opening with Gorr, the story of Jane and Thor drifting apart and Mjolnir protecting Jane, and then Jane's sacrifice but Gorr's daughter "living" and Thor taking her on - all of that was strong enough that I appreciated it.
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