Second that!
I think bloat is a good word for it. In one of my rare guest appearances in an MCU thread on the old forum, I made a case for who I thought should stick around and who should go. One of the MCU's big problems is actors who should've hung it up years ago. Instead of moving into Era 2.0, we're stuck in Era 1.5. It's akin to our politicians rotting away in office.
Coincidentally, I never found most of those characters interesting to start with. MCU Ant-Man? Never tickled my fancy. The majority of those who decided to stick around are less charismatic actors, too. Sorry, Anthony Mackie.
I like Tom Holland fine, but he should do one more solo Spider-Man movie and move on. After the Spider-Verse movies and Miles Morales video game, the introduction of Miles Morales to the MCU would be a breath of fresh air.
Retire, bitch:
Peter Parker
Thor (this was the hardest person to let go of, honestly)
Doctor Strange
Wong
Bucky
Falcon
Ant-Man
Wasp
GotG
Shuri (I'll admit this one is personal)
Loki
Hulk
Vision
Wanda
Rhodey
Nick Fury
The Eternals (I loathe the movie, so this one is also personal)
Avengers 2.0:
Shang-Chi
Kate Bishop
Valkyrie
America Chavez
Yelena
She-Hulk
The Captain Marvel Squad
Clea
Daredevil
Miles Morales (??? -- see above)
Weirdo Supernatural Team/Marvel After Dark:
Blade
Werewolf by Night
Elsa Bloodstone
Man-Thing
Agatha
Moon Knight (ugh)
I'd give those two teams a few years before bringing in the X-Men and the Fantastic Four. As expertly as Feige guided the ship for the first 10 years, he's really blown it since then.
My only other observation is after a male-dominated start, the MCU almost has to steer into some female-led movies. I was honestly giddy at fac's suggestion of Steinfeld, Pugh, and Maslany on the same team. Throw in Valkyrie and I'd be in heaven.
Well, Peter Parker was the first non-Star Wars character I really got into, but I totally get he's had his day, or three. I'd be fine with him getting retired in Secret Wars and Miles taking the spotlight. I've also had Gwen, Miguel, and Ava Ayala on my wishlist for characters to appear in live action for at least ten years.
Thor... I'm okay if they don't do solo movies... and I'm okay if they continue, even after L&T. He still manages to feel like the Phase 1 hero that could carry on. But I'm also cool if he continues in other people's movies/team ups. Strange, I was really surprised at how much I liked the first movie. I always point out it's one of my favorite solo movie endings because he outsmarts the ultimate villain and doesn't even kill him. The second one underwhelmed me drastically, despite the cast, but I appreciated his interactions in Infinity War and No Way Home, so he's another I'm cool with continuing in other people's movies/team ups. Wong, the actor, has such comedic ability that is monumentally underutilized by Marvel, so... they may as well retire him as far as I'm concerned. Falcon... I'm open to where he's going. Falcon & Winter Soldier (like Book of Boba Fett) was a show that had some moments here and there but ultimately you can completely skip it and not miss anything because the characters are basically where you left off with them in the last appearance. Cap gives him the shield, Bucky is by him. In Cap 4 when he shows up wielding the shield with a spangly costume, no one who's never subscribed to Disney Plus is gonna bat an eye. But I do feel the Falcon and Bucky friendship can be mined further.
Ant-Man & Wasp are another couple to add to my 'cool with continuing in other people's movies/team ups' list. The GOTG is probably another. I'm perfectly fine with Quill never lifting a blaster again and living out the rest of his days off camera in the midwest. Gamora, Nebula, and Drax got solid send-offs that I'd prefer to not touch again. And the new team, eh, I'm sure we'll get more of them somewhere and that's fine... I just hope whoever takes that on can approximate the flavor of the first three movies. And I hate to say it because I love most of the cast but Wakanda would be okay fading out for me too. I do expect more from Loki (even as someone who hasn't watched any of season 2 still), and I feel like Hulk is sticking around, but Wanda I kinda want them to just leave alone now because I have a feeling any return with her is just gonna soil the character even further. Vision I could see being integral to the Young Avengers but don't feel he needs his own show (as has been rumored). Unless he really loves the make-up chair, I imagine Bettany feels the same. Oh, speaking of, when can we get Jennifer Connolly as Jocasta?
Rhodey... I really want them to give War Machine at least one movie. And I would love to retcon the $#!* out of Secret Invasion. He went for a colonoscopy just a month before the events of the show and got snatched. Erase erase, Feige. Fury... I guess we'll see how the Marvels treats him but I'm kinda okay with him retiring too, even though Jackson seems utterly game to continue with action roles.
Eternals... I'm okay with them not being addressed again but I did enjoy the movie and would definitely see a second one.
Now the list of 'Avengers 2.0' is really exciting. Shang-Chi and Valkyrie can both be really fun, especially judging the actors by roles other than their Marvel characters. Kate Bishop and Kamala Khan I feel could go a lot further with utilizing the abilities of their actresses, and Yelena just needs to keep on swiping the spotlight. She-Hulk I'm really excited to see more of, and I really hope they have great ideas of where to take Monica and America. Clea is one I don't have any feeling about because... I just really didn't like Strange Mom and really associate her with strictly that. And Daredevil, well... I feel the same way as I do with Boba Fett. I know he has incredible potential and can be amazing on screen, especially when teamed up/pitted against other characters, BUT... if they're just gonna use him for bathroom tissue, I would prefer not.
The supernatural stuff... I've never been all that into. I did read the Ketch Ghost Rider comics when I was a teen, but never watched the Cage movies at all and had stopped AOS long before GR showed up there. I enjoyed WBN for what it was, very much, but I also was hoping for a full on actual WEREWOLF. Werewolf movies are something I'm always eager to find another good one, even though that list, for me, is incredibly short while the disappointing ones are vast. But if they can pull off some horror, even with Marvel tongue in cheek style, I'm open to it being enjoyable.
I would absolutely be down with an all female team, whether it's A Force or what. Ironheart is another you could add to She Hulk, Valkyrie, Yelena, Kate Bishop, Kamala, Monica, and Carol. Hopefully with more nuance than the forced lady-gathering that resulted after Parker, for some reason, expressed doubt the woman who just flew through a massive star cruiser, TWICE, could get past a group of people.
And after the FF and X-Men come, my biggest hope is still Alpha Flight. Mutant-adjacent but also, I feel, not a definite. I'm really hoping they may show up in Deadpool 3 at the very least.
Heh heh, well of course I know some feel that way. I didn't hate that movie but also didn't notice the director's cut being all that different. And I appreciated that Colin Farrell kept his accent and enjoyed his campiness unironically.
Here's a new direction: things don't go well for Loki vs Kang in his series. He comes to the MCU timeline to form / lead the Avengers against him.
I think bloat is a good word for it.
It's akin to our politicians rotting away in office.
Retire, bitch:
Peter Parker
Thor (this was the hardest person to let go of, honestly)
Doctor Strange
Wong
Bucky
Falcon
Ant-Man
Wasp
GotG
Shuri (I'll admit this one is personal)
Loki
Hulk
Vision
Wanda
Rhodey
Nick Fury
The Eternals (I loathe the movie, so this one is also personal)
IAs expertly as Feige guided the ship for the first 10 years, he's really blown it since then.
I can't disagree with any of this.
We should be in the middle of a long MCU drought right now. They should have called it after Endgame, and focused on making X-Men and FF the best it can be. If this were the case I'd be begging for more MCU right now instead of actively avoiding it. I, and most audiences I would imagine, would be boiling over with anticipation instead of fatigue.
I don't know how much I blame Fegie. Is he out of ideas? It appears that may be the case. But remember the real boss is Disney. They're not going to sit on this IP for years with no content no matter what. There will never be a pause, it's going to keep going because $$$$$$ (see also Star Wars). Fegie can either be out of ideas and employed or out of ideas and unemployed. If I were him I'd probably take the former as well.
I wouldn't even say Feige is out of ideas. I think they're just trying to put him in charge of too much content at this point. It used to be we'd have maybe 10 hours of MCU content in a given year. Now it's more than tripled with Disney+ content and there's no way he can oversee all of these projects with the same care as before.
I think Disney+ shows have largely been a failed experiment and they're starting to see that. Hopefully they've learned that they can't broaden their scope too much without the quality suffering as a result.
I still say run it like a comic publisher. You have one person overseeing all of it but you have the people running the subsections too, with showrunners and film writers reporting to them. Maybe genre-heads. One person oversees all horror stuff, another all cosmic stuff, and so on. Annual summits for all these writers to make sure they're all coinciding well. But I've never seen 'too much' as being an absolute issue, otherwise Marvel comics wouldn't be able to put out so many comics a year. Too much for one person sure but he has other people and maybe needs to restructure the studio.
Perhaps the MCU should avoid all those different genres entirely because it is not a comic publisher and splitting the focus is not good for the brand, or storytelling momentum, which is probably more important and missing right now.
Horror, especially, feels like a strong step in the wrong direction for the MCU. It's hard to do right and those characters have never had the success of more mainstream characters and that's perhaps for a good reason - they aren't generally big audience friendly.
I still think Blade needs to be shelved. Werewolf was whatever.
They pulled off GOTG when that was a huge risk, so it's not impossible - I just think the priorities and resources need to be focused elsewhere at this time. It's also why I didn't mind the X-Men and Daredevil and Spidey being at other studios - it allowed those fully-fleshed out universes to co-exist without brand cannabilization.
I get your point but I feel like they need to diversify with genres if they're going to remain a viable studio, OR yes they limit their releases each year.
I wouldn't even say Feige is out of ideas. I think they're just trying to put him in charge of too much content at this point. It used to be we'd have maybe 10 hours of MCU content in a given year. Now it's more than tripled with Disney+ content and there's no way he can oversee all of these projects with the same care as before.
I think Disney+ shows have largely been a failed experiment and they're starting to see that. Hopefully they've learned that they can't broaden their scope too much without the quality suffering as a result.
That's a good point. I would agree that the quantity is causing the quality to take a hit.
Unfortunately I don't see the quantity going down. Disney needs these IPs, Marvel, Star Wars, etc, to help keep their streaming service afloat. They aren't going away. If they don't have them they'd have to come up with new ideas.....and, well....that's not Hollywood's strong suit.
I mean, the quantity is going down already, but not by their choice. And by virtue of being forced to negotiate new contracts with writers, actors, AND the recently unionized VFX artists the quality is likely to improve, at least somewhat.
In theory I really like that Marvel dabbles in different genres. In fact, I feel their movies are at their best when they go beyound just superheroes, like Winter Soldier also being a political thriller or Ant-Man also being a heist film.
I thought WandaVision was great in the way it played with the medium, and Werewolf by night was a really authentic William Castle experience. In theory, I don't even hate the idea of She-Hulk being a slice-of-life courtroom dramedy, I just think it needed someone who knew how to do courtroom dramedies. I really think adding show-runners to their series will make their shows so much better.
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