I like how the Marvel show I enjoyed the most almost accidentally had a showrunner.
It's just nice Marvel finally figured out what TV writers established decades ago.
It's absolutely wild to me how bad these highly paid executives are at their jobs. Why is it taking Disney so long to learn that they have to actually hire people to come up with a cohesive vision for these properties? They struck gold with Kevin Feige and they thought they could just magically keep making hits for streaming without showrunners?
And don't even get me started on the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
I hope we're on the cusp of a true renaissance for television and film. That, or I hope these studios crash and burn.
@popoman I hope so too. I keep saying, one way or the other, the industry is going to massively change. Either we're going into a new golden-age, or an AI-driven wasteland. And that's kinda how it seems like they wanted to run these shows, and even the movies lately: human AI. A bunch of people doing a bunch of things that editing can make sense of, but not necessarily make good. Guardians 3 feels like a big exception, and guess what? I bet it was the most single-vision driven project they've had in a while.
I guess studios can't learn from the hundred-years of film history. They have to make the same mistakes themselves.
Also, for Loki... I haven't watched yet but intend to. Still haven't finished Secret Invasion and I can't imagine anything ever changing that for me. Loki I am hopeful for though.
I have low expectations for Disney/Marvel Studios. These major studios are extremely risk-averse and it takes years (and often decades) of financial disaster to change anything. Superhero films worked for the first decade because they were doing something new. Unfortunately, once Hollywood executives identify something that works, they run the trend into the ground.
Well... that's totally fair, yeah. I do hope for more stuff like Guardians 3 to slip through. I love popcorn, but don't want it burnt or flavorless.
The idea of Daredevil focusing on the legal procedural side actually didn't sound bad to me, at least as a starting point. The whole he wasn't in costume until episode 3 or 4 sounds like they were trying to do something different? So who knows if better?
The slowdown of the MCU in theaters has really hurt the D+ shows, as I think the links to the films have been spread out over too much time (like Ms Marvel should have ended a month before the Marvels debuted and WandaVision a month before Dr Strange, Iron Heart should have been out right after Wakanda Forever, etc.) - the whole synergy has fallen apart and I think it has put too emphasis on the shows that were meant to be somewhat supplemental.
RU wants showrunners - I'm not sure that will help if they are locked into a story arc and number of episodes before anyone gets going. What I want is get the story and then decide how many episodes it needs and use the fact you could have anything from a 30 minute to 75 minute episode to your advantage based on when to end an episode. Do one-shots like there used to be on the DVDs here and there. They have near total freedom with these shows but don't really take advantage of that. Do three episodes, tell a story, have the next one be 7 episodes if needed, whatever.
I do want showrunners and I want writers to drive these shows, but that's not to say I need 24 episodes at 42 minutes each. If they break a plot and it needs five 30 minute episodes, great. Three 90 minute episodes? Whatever it takes. But too many of these shows are just movies cut up and inflated.
To me, yeah, that's the most exciting part of streaming series. You don't need to be beholden to the traditional format anymore, but I do still believe in the way stories are broken and run at least.
The slowdown of the MCU in theaters has really hurt the D+ shows, as I think the links to the films have been spread out over too much time (like Ms Marvel should have ended a month before the Marvels debuted and WandaVision a month before Dr Strange, Iron Heart should have been out right after Wakanda Forever, etc.) - the whole synergy has fallen apart and I think it has put too emphasis on the shows that were meant to be somewhat supplemental.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm not really interested in supplemental or essential stories told on D+. I'm not interested in supplemental because I won't watch them, and I'm not interested in essential because they've done such a poor job making television.
My experience with Disney shows has almost entirely been a waste of my time to this point. The shows I've liked, She-Hulk, Loki, Andor, and to a much lesser extent, WandaVision, seem like happy accidents. Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Ms. Marvel, and Moon Knight are among the worst TV shows I've seen in the last few years. There's too much good stuff out there for me to watch crap.
I could be an outlier though, because as I've discussed here, my interest in franchise movies/TV has waned in recent years. The fact that Marvel Studios has basically gone straight downhill since Endgame hasn't helped.
A couple years ago, I was still a staunch marvel fan and wouldn't hesitate to defend them, but yeah.... a lot of goodwill has been worn away for me too. I'm still hopeful for what they do, still wanna see mutants and the FF on screen with Spiderman and what have you, but not nearly as excited for every project they announced anymore. And to be clear, it isn't at all 'oh, they're doing movies and shows for the D list/legacy inheritors' etc. I am still excited for Echo, despite everything. It's really just about how the quality has been the last couple years. I still like Eternals and Shang Chi, No Way Home, and Guardians 3, She Hulk, Loki, and like you said to a lesser extent WandaVision. Ms Marvel I really love the character and the performances but the show itself didn't deserve them.
But a lot of the other stuff is at least lackluster, usually forgettable, and in a couple of cases unfinishable. Like you said, there is so much great TV out there and most of marvels output cannot possibly compete. I have maybe a dozen shows I love rewatching almost annually and none of the MCU ones have made it on that list. I think the only d+ marvel project I have watched more than once is the Guardians holiday special.
It really sucks to me because I'm not even excited for Kang Dynasty. A trailer would likely change that, even two years from now or whenever it actually gets released. And that isn't because of Majors or anything like that, nor is it because "there's too many threads/too much to keep track of", as I love continuity and the MCU has been the motherlode of continuity. Maybe I'm getting burnt out a bit as well but the drop in quality hasn't helped at all. But to whine about it a bit more, marvel has been such a great source of entertainment for so many years, and it's not like it's truly over or the studio is folding but I definitely don't expect to get as many hits anymore. I definitely won't see too many in the theater, if any, but I'm also no longer ensuring I see every single release.
I mean... how can you mess up Daredevil?
By not making a choice. Marvel likes to keep all its options in play and that's killing the creativity on projects.
I think what's really missing right now is a central figure in the MCU to rally around. They tried Kang but that was a massive execution misfire (rightfully so - and then existentially so). They seem to be grasping for story without Tony to build around.
The rest gets long but I obviously find it interesting. 🙂
Scott could have been a gathering figure for the next iteration of Avengers (his idea of looking out for the little guy was a good direction), but they accidentally destroyed Ant-Man and Wasp's appeal (hence the reshoots to rescue them so they wouldn't have to revisit those characters). Spider-Man is stuck in studio limbo but shouldn't have two franchises dependent around him anyway. Thor could be the central figure but they chose to go in a completely opposite direction while also killing off Jane who could have taken the mantle (for at least one extra movie, at least - she gathers new heroes to protect Earth because she knows her time to do it is limited).
So who does that leave? Famous team player Doc Strange? Hulk? Panther maybe, but not the way they chose to move forward. Star-Lord is on Earth. Shang-Chi who? Retired Hawkeye? Is probably the best bet and possibly the least broken of the remaining legacy characters. Because:
Nick went off on his own and sucked. Falcon is not Cap and took a whole show to prove it. Carol doesn't spend enough time on Earth. They killed Maria for absolutely no reason and seriously hurt Rhodey's viability. Sharon is WTF, Vision is MIA, Wanda is insane and/or dead, Wong's biggest contribution is Madissyn. So all the legacy movie characters are in a weird limbo of stop-start or currently dead.
I think Thunderbolts and Blade both need to be iced for a few years in favor of the actual Avengers films. They are diversions from the main MCU narrative which could have been fun, GOTG1-level romps when there WAS a defined MCU direction (the biggest problem), but at this point they feel like unnecessary distractions that will divide audiences. Marvel needs to re-focus their resources on A-level characters and Thunderbolts and Blade are very much not that. Yelena is really the only A character of the bunch I'm actively interested in watching more of at this point (speaking for myself, obviously) and she should be involved in the next iteration of the Avengers.
(Deadpool I'm counting as a separate thing until it's not [though I have high hopes that it's gonna be great] but the less said about Cap 4 the better [have very low expectations that that movie is going to help right the MCU-ship].)
I'll stop for now, but this was fun to try to take the existing pieces and make them work. 🙂 Marvel really has made a mess for itself, and that makes me so sad because it means so much to me.
That's a solid point. If I learned anything from Wonder Boys, it's that writers need to make choices. A lot of times when I'm not happy with something writing, it's because I'm not commiting fully to a decision.
And that's a solid breakdown of where all the characters stand now and how it went down the tubes. I think Rhodey stung the most. I didn't finish that show so the ostrich part of my brain doesn't know how that played out, heh. But how about She Hulk? I know some people didn't connect with that show but she has the charisma, she's a reluctant hero, and could duel with Deadpool on fourth wall breaking.
They also really can't bring the FF and mutants out fast enough and I may not ever stop scratching my head at the foot dragging on those. I know there are a few great theories on why but we don't really know for sure why.
It really sucks to me because I'm not even excited for Kang Dynasty.
I wouldn't be surprised if they reformulated their game plan. All this stuff with Jonathan Majors would make it really easy to drop that whole plot line.
I think focusing on the X-Men and Fantastic 4 is the best path forward for them.
I mean... how can you mess up Daredevil?
Fair play.
I'm not nearly as down on the D+ or MCU as many of you, I guess. I think at worst the shows or films have been either bland or predictable, neither of which makes something terrible to me, just not something I got invested in. I don't think anything has been terrible/unwatchable - everything has had some fun moments so worth the time to me.
But I'll stand by the assessment that Marvel has twisted itself into a knot trying to do too much and replicate Phase 1 to 3 - having the big build to Phase 6 or 7.
Which leads me to the fact they have laid too much groundwork for what seems like four or five directions - the nearly decade-long march to Endgame is not repeatable, and they haven't picked a replacement storyline but started a half-dozen which all seems half-done and directionless, while also tying up the loose ends from Endgame. It's like we are reading three or four different novels in installments at the same time, and none are more than halfway completed.
I feel like the idea behind the last few years was threefold:
1 - Wrap up loose ends, character-arc-wise, after Endgame with Thor, Guardians, Ant-Man, Wanda, Hawkeye, Black Panther, Loki, Falcon et al and reset Spidey. I think they did pretty well here to leave us with the baseline of a new Avengers team to call on with Steve Cap, IM, BP and maybe Thor out of the picture. The problem I think is that while I like Cumberbatch, his Dr Strange is kind of bland, same with Ruffalo's Banner and Larson's Capt Marvel and Mackie's Cap. Holland as Spidey is the last A-list Marvel character with the charisma that Downey, Evans, Bozeman and Hemsworth brought to the table to really be a lead. Rudd has it to some extent, but Ant Man isn't an A-list character.
2 - Introduce the next generation - the Young Female Avengers - with Kate, Ms Marvel, Monica, Shuri BP, Iron Heart, She Hulk, America Chavez, Yelena, etc. Steinfeld, Pugh, Maslany and Vellani have the charisma that is missing from some of the older guard - you could build around them, which is why the most interesting direction for me would be leading to the Young Female Avengers and how those four in particular would work together with their different personalities (earnest/honorable, practical/cold, cynical/snarky, effervescent/naive).
3 - Have an overarching threat of the Multiverse/Kang as the defacto big antagonist while also dealing with the fallout from the blip - how it messed up the world and left power vacuums and fights. This has been too all over the place so far, but could be pulled together still, especially if we learn that is it various Kangs causing some of this strife on Earth.
If they had stuck to that, and hadn't gone down the roads of the Eternals, Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, etc., with Blade and Black Knight and US Agent and DD and so on being added in, I think they'd have been in a better spot now - but as it is those all just seem like detours in what was already a bloated storyline.
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