Technically the title of the thread is referencing shooting a metal ball from one's skull.
Ill-advised despite what 90's GI Joe would have you believe.
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There are great things in ROTJ, but Leia being his sister is not one of them.
I always felt that solved three narrative issues for Lucas.
1 - Concludes the setup from TESB when Yoda says "There is another" - which Lucas only dropped in there as he was protecting his franchise against being locked into any one actor, given he almost lost his lead in Mark Hamill from the car accident he had between ANH and TESB.
2 - It solves the "love triangle" among Leia, Luke, Han without Luke "losing" the girl to his best friend.
3 - It provides the reason for Luke to go off on Vader - Luke needed something personal to fight for given he entered the situation trying to turn his father back, and the need to protect Leia from becoming Vader's target meant he couldn't fail in his fight with Vader without endangering her even more. More evidence how Luke would never turn his back on his friends and run away and hide and think about killing his nephew...
I'm sure Lucas saw it the same way.
BUT... I mean... first off, Leia gives him too serious, icky kisses in ESB. On Hoth then again on the Falcon. And that's after she told Han she loved him, and he said what he said... so I feel like the door was clearly still open for Luke after Han's cute little reaction.
But secondly, Luke's lost sister was what Yoda was hinting at, who was also going to be what Vader used to finally get Luke to teeter toward the dark side when he threatened to turn her instead. When Lucas was facing a divorce, he decided he was done in the galaxy far far away and took what was to be four movies and compressed them into one. Which meant not having time to meet and learn about this sister character, and as we know there's only one female in the OT galaxy, so... there we go. I imagine doing only one movie instead of four more also made it easier for Harrison Ford to not push for Han's death too.
But that's what I feel was lost... Jabba's Palace essentially being an entire film, then a trilogy meeting another main character and having six more hours with our beloved heroes, their bipedal dog who won't wear pants, and the robits.
but also, agree on Luke's characterization in the ST.
As a kid I never questioned much about anything from the OT. As an adult, I know I SHOULD question some of it because there are plot holes, especially looking at it in relation to the prequels and Disney stuff, but I don't, because it was good enough for me as a kid, and I honestly don't give too much thought to the prequels or Disney stuff. Those three movies are on a unique, sort of untouchable plane for me as well as many many other nerds. I'm at peace with Star Wars, I don't need any more.
I get that, and most of the time when I watch them anymore, it's with my kids and I don't think about it like that. Learning what almost was screwed me up.
Everybody (probably) has some head canon about a property, even if it's a simple as "there's nothing that says Bladerunner *isn't* set in the Alien universe."
But some people like to be more active participants in a property they like and will create fanfic of those characters or settings. Now, fanfic gets a bad rap, but it's still a creative outlet and I don't see anything wrong with adopting a franchise and creating ongoing stories even when it deviates from the official storyline.
As long as you're not Misery-level obsessed with somebody else's characters, I say go for it. Life's too short to be embarrassed by your creative outlet.
I mean, of course I'd say that given the MCU screed I posted, but you get my point.
And just in case, this isn't directed at anybody; it's just part of the discussion.
There is an episode of How I Met Your Mother in which the guy shows his girlfriend Star Wars for the first time (pre-Disney, so just the OT and PT). He loves the OT and wants her to love it as much as he does, but seeing the PT spoils Star Wars for her.
Then he shows her the first three Indian Jones movies and she loves them. She asks him if there are any more and (even though Crystal Skull WAS released at the time) he looks her straight in the eyes and says, "No, no it's just those three".
Head cannon.
This thread reminds me of that. Quit while while you're ahead, franchises.
It's clearly reeeeeeeally difficult for any franchise to make a solid return after many years, especially when using the same performer(s). Aliens was only 7 years or so, and kept the same star and threat, but had something of a sub genre shift and as much as I may not want to admit it these days, a masterful creative mind behind the camera. No Way Home, The Flash, and Deadpool & Wolverine seem to have found a way around it with the nostalgia characters more or less supporting the more current main character(s), and Phantom Menace was, for all intents and purposes, a whole new story with new cast/characters, designs, etc. I'm sure there's more examples of both, and likely examples that disprove everything I said, but I'm not dwelling on it too hard right now.
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But that's what I feel was lost... Jabba's Palace essentially being an entire film, then a trilogy meeting another main character and having six more hours with our beloved heroes, their bipedal dog who won't wear pants, and the robits.
but also, agree on Luke's characterization in the ST.
While acknowledging that the Leia sister reveal was abrupt, having seen the prequels, do we believe that giving Lucas 4 movies to tell the story he told in one would have been better than ROTJ? I'm doubtful.
@bat At the time? I feel yes. Lucas was determined to not work. He was working hard to not work anymore, and letting others (like Kasdan) write for him, and others direct as well. It wasn't until the late 90s that he came back around to wanting to do it all himself. Hopefully also he would have still had Gary Kurtz at his side as well.
As a kid I never questioned much about anything from the OT. As an adult, I know I SHOULD question some of it because there are plot holes, especially looking at it in relation to the prequels and Disney stuff, but I don't, because it was good enough for me as a kid, and I honestly don't give too much thought to the prequels or Disney stuff. Those three movies are on a unique, sort of untouchable plane for me as well as many many other nerds. I'm at peace with Star Wars, I don't need any more.
This is the most important aspect of SO much Star Wars fandom (many fandoms really). The things we fall in love with as children will always have a special glow of untouchability that is impossible for any property to capture when we experience it for the first time as adults. Our brains work differently - it's noone's fault. But nothing will impact us the way those things we fell in love with as children did. And those things we sanctified in our youth will always be more special and better - even if objectively they sometimes aren't.
It's not just Star Wars movies - heck it was a huge problem in politics and culture with 50's nostalgia and longing for a 'simpler time' - that was mostly just old people romanticizing their youth and conveniently forgetting all the shitty stuff that was also happening then (well, those of them that weren't directly kicked in the face by the shittiness at any rate).
It's why there was a bit of a renaissance of popularity for the Prequel Trilogy not too long ago with the generation for whom those were their first Star Wars movies - they see them differently than those of us who grew up with the OT. Of course they were saddled with growing up with the older folks barraging them with opinions about how much better the OT was - so it's not exactly the same for them, but even so - they see those films nostalgically now. And of course there's a more recent - crappier - set of movies for them to look down on which helps.
I also think fans often unfairly expect franchises to age with them - become more sophisticated, more adult, etc. So even though I was in my 30's when the PT came out, I understood that these were still movies designed for kids and teenagers ultimately, so didn't have the negative reaction many fans seemed to have. I admit I sometime fail on that with the Disney+ stuff as I can't quite tell if the audience is still meant to be for everyone (age wise) or not.
(I sort of envy those with the possibility of watching the PT and then OT in timeline order without knowing what is coming. Some things, like Vader being Luke's father, would lose impact of course, but if you really didn't know that Anakin was going to turn evil in RotS and the extent of Palpatine's plan, and the main hero of the PT is going to die in ANH, and you might agree with Yoda and Ben that facing Vader and the Emperor is a mistake in RotJ - I feel like the whole things must play out so differently.)
I will be curious if there will be nostalgia for the ST. I assume to some extent, but I think the PT was genuinely popular with kids at the time, not as sure about the ST engaging them.
Then he shows her the first three Indian Jones movies and she loves them. She asks him if there are any more and (even though Crystal Skull WAS released at the time) he looks her straight in the eyes and says, "No, no it's just those three".
I feel like one of the few folks who liked Crystal Skull as a concept. The idea of moving into a Cold War era goofy sci-fi/aliens thing was perfect for a film series that had always been set about 45-50 years prior the present day.
I also think fans often unfairly expect franchises to age with them - become more sophisticated, more adult, etc. So even though I was in my 30's when the PT came out, I understood that these were still movies designed for kids and teenagers ultimately, so didn't have the negative reaction many fans seemed to have.
Agreed. I was fortunate the first time I saw TPM was a showing with a ton of kids near me, so their glee and enjoyment really helped me have a great experience, even though I probably wouldn't have liked the movie as much had I watched it alone at home. It put a very fine point on 'this movie is for them, not me', but also probably made it a little easier for my inner 6 year old to get excited for all the lightsabering, podracing, and new ships.
So much to unpack here. "Canon" is one of those tricky things, and I get PantherCult's point about growing up reading comics (especially Marvel) where it seemed like a concerted effort was made to include all the history...even the crappy stuff. Back in the day, if there was a storyline that was reviled by most, then a retcon would be made without discarding the original story...we'd just discover some new bit of information that reframed the context of that story. There was also the brilliant "No Prize" that allowed fans to explain away mistakes made in a story (I really miss this aspect of Marvel, honestly). Nowadays, it seems there is a lazy attitude of "we'll just pretend like entire story arcs didn't happen", all under the guise of a "reboot". We have film franchises like Halloween that have gotten to the point that they seem more like "Choose Your Own Adventure" than a cohesive series.
As for "head canon", I think pretty much everyone who is a fan of any series applies this in some form or fashion. The earlier mention of the Alien franchise is a perfect example of this, as I think almost every fan has aspects of it that they embrace and reject. For a series I truly love, I have SO many issues with the "official" canon of the franchise. Many love Alien3 and Alien: Resurrection, but far more revile those entries and wish some film would come along to retcon them (my favorite suggestion is "canonically" saying those movies were both nightmares Ripley experienced in cryosleep. This would at least keep them as part of the story, even if they weren't events that actually "happened"). The Ridley Scott prequels REALLY divide fans with the various weird elements he added in, and debates rage as to whether David "created" the xenomorphs or reverse engineered them from the notes left by the Engineers (I fall into the latter interpretation. David creating the xenos is a dumb concept, and it makes no sense when considering that the Space Jockey in the first film was freaking fossilized).
At the end of the day though, that's part of the fun AND frustration with being a fan of any ongoing series. I think the attitude of taking what you want from a series and discarding the rest is probably the most healthy approach you can take if you are going to continue following a franchise.
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