I was thinking about the Alien franchise which has produced 9 films, and the various additions and continuations to its mythology, plus there have been the comics which I have read at times, and it got me thinking about the "never-ending-ness" of modern franchises given the first Alien was released 45 years ago and at what point is it too much. Not to say they shouldn't keep making films and if many fans love it, fine by me. But I am curious what others think - are their franchises where you view the true story is done even if it continues past it - either because you don't like the direction it took, or the quality, or it retoactively changed things.
Here are a few of my personal examples:
1 - Star Wars: In - Original Trilogy, Prequel Trilogy, Rogue One, Andor, Obi-Wan, Mando S1 and S2.
Out - There are some fun films and shows not included - I generally like the Filoni-verse with the Clone Wars, Ahsoka, and Mandalore storylines, but I am fine with the idea that Star Wars to me is really the Skywalker family story at its core. The Sequel Trilogy just doesn't hold up in terms of its own story mattering, let alone how it undermines the OT and that Luke won.
I know many folks dislike Ob-Wan, but I think seeing Vader as a true menace and Alderaan and the Lars family in better days, I think bridges the two trilogies well and adds some to the emotional heft of ANH as their Dad's team leaves them orphans; Andor with Rogue One is also showing why the Empire needed to be stopped and I like that as well; and Mando S2 ending with Luke in full Jedi mode while showing us over two seasons the post-Empire galaxy was fun.
2 - Alien: In - Alien, Aliens
Out: Everything else. Aliens 3 is an OK film in some ways, and I get what they wanted to do, but I want Ripley to have her happy ending with Newt. Prometheus, Covenant and Romulus make the story bigger, but I like it smaller that the first crew was just unlucky, and Ripley is the ultimate hero. 4 and the AvP stuff is unneeded.
3 - Toy Story: In: 1,2,3
Out: TS 4 was OK, but TS 3 ended perfectly to me with Andy giving the toys away. They have announced TS 5 and I will see it and maybe it will change my mind, but TS 1, 2 and 3 are just about a perfect story arc.
4 - X-Men: In - X-Men 1,2,3 plus First Class, Days of Future Past, Logan and (surprisingly) New Mutants.
Out - Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix just didn't work for me in what was already a fractured continuity, only Logan of the standalone Wolverine films left much of an impression, and while I like the Deadpool stuff its like the Filoni-verse in Star Wars, good but mostly a tangent.
5 - Ghostbusters: In - Ghostbusters, Ghostbusters Afterlife
Out - Ghostbusters 2 was fun at the time but something of a rehash. Afterlife provides a pretty effective sequel to the first GB I thought. Frozen Empire and the reboot are superfluous.
I think I like franchises because I like when universes get built out, even if it's unrelated and just in the same universe like Tarantino's movies. It's like how I choose books to read based on whether or not it's part of a series.
But I think the risks get higher as you continue with the same characters. Having to do something new with, say, Indiana Jones competes with having to keep doing what made us like him in the first place.
I don't have the hubris to say a franchise has gone off the rails, but there are a few that left me behind. Like, the Alien movies went too far into body horror for my tastes and the X-Men movies didn't exactly nail their own continuity. (But, I also enjoyed New Mutants, so I'm glad I'm not alone in that.)
In some cases, I started laying my own tracks after they went in directions I didn't like. It starts with something like "that's not how I would've done it" and just kind of grows from there. Marvel Movies and the CW Arrowverse have gotten actual fanfic rewrites from me.
If I'm god of all franchises, this is what's happening with some of my favorites:
MCU---It ended after Endgame. We are still waiting for the next installment. Fans are salivating....they can't WAIT to see what happens next. They miss it, they want more. I have allowed No Way Home and GOTG vol 3 to go forward for the purposes of finishing those characters' stories and I've allowed Deadpool and Wolverine as a fun one-off. None of the above are officially part of any "phase". They were made to tell/finish a story, not to fill a slot.
DC---Snyder, controversial as he may be, was allowed to finish his movies. His movies and the first Wonder Woman are all we have so far. We are awaiting a new Superman movie with Cavil and a brand new creative team and supporting cast. He will do a great job.
Star Wars---George Lucas created a very successful prequel trilogy working closely with seasoned, capable writers and produces who were not afraid to reign him in and suggest maybe some things need a re-write or more than one take. Both the OT original cut AND the special editions are available on Blu-Ray because fans should get to choose for themselves. Most have opted to buy both anyway which has made George (who never sold to Disney) double the money. In fact, he is currently going back in and adding MORE changes to his creation (which artists are allowed to do) and it's perfectly fine because anyone who doesn't care for it can go back and watch the original that they prefer on the most up to date tech. In fact, most people are eager to see what tweaks George has made this time around and await it with anticipation. They collect/consume ALL of his various edits which, again, makes a lot of money.
Clone Wars animated show still exists as does the Mandalorian season 1. We are awaiting season 2 which will not tie in in any way to previous events or characters.....Boba Fett is dead. That is all the Star Wars content at this time.
I have other plans for other franchises with my franchise god hammer, but I have to go start my day now......
I don't have the hubris to say a franchise has gone off the rails, but there are a few that left me behind. Like, the Alien movies went too far into body horror for my tastes and the X-Men movies didn't exactly nail their own continuity. (But, I also enjoyed New Mutants, so I'm glad I'm not alone in that.)
In some cases, I started laying my own tracks after they went in directions I didn't like. It starts with something like "that's not how I would've done it" and just kind of grows from there.
That is basically what I was curious about - instances where a franchise has gone off in a direction that someone didn't want to follow. This is something of a new phenomenon with film series going on for decades - even extremely popular book series like the Oz books ran for 14 books in 20 years (The Hardy Boys 50 years, and even had the first few dozen revised in the 1960's to modernize them and remove stereotypes, which I am sure if it happened today would cause a fanboy panic). I suppose the original movie universe was the Universal Monsters, and the non-Abbot and Costello portion essentially had a 15-year core run.
I think New Mutants was pretty decent and given the actual continuity and universe for that is at the moment distinct, I would be happy if they brought some of that cast back as I thought Ana Taylor Joy and Maisie Willaims were good as Illyana and Rahne.
MCU---It ended after Endgame. We are still waiting for the next installment. Fans are salivating....they can't WAIT to see what happens next. They miss it, they want more. I have allowed No Way Home and GOTG vol 3 to go forward for the purposes of finishing those characters' stories and I've allowed Deadpool and Wolverine as a fun one-off. None of the above are officially part of any "phase". They were made to tell/finish a story, not to fill a slot.
I'd accept this, sort of - I think while Endgame successfully ended what a 22 movie story which is amazing, I have enjoyed the films/shows since then that have completed individual character stories - so I would include what you mention plus WandaVision, Loki, Hawkeye, MoM, Falcon and Winter Soldier, Love and Thunder and Wakanda Forever as the sort of end points for those characters in the aftermath of Thanos.
Star Wars---George Lucas created a very successful prequel trilogy working closely with seasoned, capable writers and produces who were not afraid to reign him in and suggest maybe some things need a re-write or more than one take. Both the OT original cut AND the special editions are available on Blu-Ray because fans should get to choose for themselves.
....Boba Fett is dead.
Agree about all versions available on blu-ray/4K/streaming.
Sadly, I agree about Boba Fett being dead as his return hasn't added much to his character lore. Having said that, why we haven't had a Tales of the Bounty Hunters type series set before ANH is beyond me - seems like low hanging fruit to fill in that time period and have them clash with the Rebels and the Empire and the Hutts and each other.
Agree about all versions available on blu-ray/4K/streaming.
I'm convinced that it's not "Han shooting first" that gets everyone riled up, but rather the idea of those original cuts fading away forever with the aging VHS tapes, the taking away of the option to own the original unaltered version on whatever the latest format is. At least give fans the choice. Hell, if they went back every ten years or so and made new alterations and resold the same three movies again and again, I MIGHT be interested enough to rebuy just to see what is different. But I (and every other SW fan) want that security blanket of owning the original cuts. In the end it's more money in their pockets. I'm particularly baffled that Disney at least has not done this.
I suspect that was part of the deal George made with Disney (maybe just a verbal agreement) to not release the originals since he seems to only recognize the revised editions. But I think the 50th anniversary in 3 years is a good possibility to get the original version released.
Really interesting topic, and one I didn't want to respond to until I had time to actually type on the computer for once, heh.
I think the first time I really thought about this sort of thing was with the Trek movies. I've always ignored 1 and 5, real easy.
1 - Star Wars
2 - Alien
4 - X-Men
5 - Ghostbusters
Star Wars... I think all I really ignore is Book of Boba Fett. I get why some of you guys prefer Fett stayed dead, but I cannot give up his episodes of Mandalorian season 2.
Alien, yeah, I'm very happy to ignore Alien 3 onward, and cling to the Dark Horse comics as the sequels to Aliens. I also heavily lament Neill Blomkamp's film that would have done the same.
X-men, I guess I ignore only Dark Phoenix as it's the only one I haven't seen, and won't see. New Mutants I haven't seen but still intend to see it. I enjoyed the First Class movies, even Apocalypse. Far from perfect, but I'm fine with it.
Ghostbusters, I never saw the reboot but that was more due to being up to my neck in baby raising at the time and being REALLY choosey with what I watched. If it came out now, I'd watch it. Frozen Empire wasn't nearly as good as Afterlife, but I'm fine with it being canon.
Otherwise, I'm trying to think of lengthy franchises I pick and choose with. I guess I kinda ignore half of The Thing movies (which is just one, heh).
I think I like franchises because I like when universes get built out, even if it's unrelated and just in the same universe like Tarantino's movies. It's like how I choose books to read based on whether or not it's part of a series.
But I think the risks get higher as you continue with the same characters. Having to do something new with, say, Indiana Jones competes with having to keep doing what made us like him in the first place.
I don't have the hubris to say a franchise has gone off the rails, but there are a few that left me behind. Like, the Alien movies went too far into body horror for my tastes and the X-Men movies didn't exactly nail their own continuity. (But, I also enjoyed New Mutants, so I'm glad I'm not alone in that.)
In some cases, I started laying my own tracks after they went in directions I didn't like. It starts with something like "that's not how I would've done it" and just kind of grows from there. Marvel Movies and the CW Arrowverse have gotten actual fanfic rewrites from me.
I try very hard to replace actual stories with my head canon, especially star wars, but just cannot. And your point with Indy is very sound. It also applies to John McClane. And I am completely on the same page with you about the body horror stuff of the Alien movies. I know the original had some gross stuff, and a lot of hints at stuff, but Aliens wasn't too gross. More action than body horror. But yeah, I really am not as into gross, body horror movies. Except I guess The Thing?
I finally broke down a few years ago and got the 4k bluray editions of the fan edit of the original trilogy. The guy who collected every old prints he could get his hands on, digitized then cleaned them up to not just get them to look like how they did back then, but how they SHOULD look now. And it actually looks far better than the officially release 4k blurays they put out? I'm not even a Special Edition hater, but I had to have those.
I think Star Wars is the only franchise I really care about going to far as to say "nope, don't care for it" and actively wish it either didn't exist or was better.
I don't even want to see Special Edition anything anymore. Sebastian Shaw is old Anakin. No Maclunkey. No extra rocks. Ewoks don't blink. Han shoots first. Threepio doesn't step in poop. The Sarlacc is just a hole with teeth. I have those rebuilt original edition Blu-rays and am happy with them.
I will always think that the prequels started with Anakin way too young, and George essentially reusing the plotline for his earliest drafts of Star Wars as the plot for Phantom Menace was the biggest sign that he was manufacturing enthusiasm for his own property instead of feeling it. There are interesting characters/designs in there that serve as great ingredients for something better, but we got expensive takeout instead. The Clone Wars cartoon did a lot of heavy lifting in making those ingredients better, and actually made Anakin a good character, but the movies themselves are just frustrating eye candy.
The sequels...I was a defender of 7 and 8 (I understand the ire against 8 but thought it was building to something worthwhile...silly me), but 9 pretty much retroactively made me want them all gone. Again, interesting characters utilized in a poorly thought out waste. And not putting the original gang back together in the same room was frankly an absolute bitch move, made all the more tragic by Carrie Fisher's death.
Also Jason Voorhees being a black goop that can possess people might have been too much.
@ibentmyman-thing I was the same way with 7 and 8. 8 was an adjustment, but I knew I'd see it as amazing if they stuck the landing with 9.
I flat-fucking-refuse to accept a single moment of the ST as canon for the simple fact that it's impossible to believe the redeemed Force Ghost of Anakin Skywalker would simply fuck off into the Force to let Palpatine DO IT ALL AGAIN.
It's all nonsense that simply fucking never would have happened because Luke Skywalker absolutely the fuck isn't stupid enough to try rebuilding the Jedi Academy without any input from the FOUR Force Ghosts he has available to mentor him, and it's laughably stupid to think none of them would have been ignorant of Palpatine's actions.
The ST is wholly irredeemable as any sort of respectable work of creativity simply because they failed to have a goddamned storyline in place before filming.
I think the first time I really thought about this sort of thing was with the Trek movies. I've always ignored 1 and 5, real easy.
Star Trek might be the epitome of this with different timelines and so on. I can't decide if I want to track down Picard for instance, and I eventually gave up on Voyager and Enterprise after a season or two. I think I would keep all the TOS films (I like 1, especially with the effects cleaned up) along with TOS, then add TNG (not sure about the films, I think All Good Things ended that series fine) and DS9. After that... not sure.
The sequels...I was a defender of 7 and 8 (I understand the ire against 8 but thought it was building to something worthwhile...silly me), but 9 pretty much retroactively made me want them all gone. Again, interesting characters utilized in a poorly thought out waste. And not putting the original gang back together in the same room was frankly an absolute bitch move, made all the more tragic by Carrie Fisher's death.
Yep, I thought 7 was OK at first - although from the get-go I thought not starting out with Han, Luke and Leia in a good place was a huge mistake, and then show us in the first 40 minutes how it all falls apart due to Ben and the First Order and so on. Because then as an audience member I would HATE them for pushing Luke into guilt ridden seclusion, causing a rift between Han and Leia, Leia seeing the New Republic fail, etc. Instead, my anger was directed to the writers for making me try to accept that these best friends who held together against the Empire would have their lives ruined and never see each other again...for event we heard about and in service of a mystery-box.
Much of 8 would have been good if it was random episodes of season 2 of an ongoing series, but not as the midpoint of a trilogy. But it like 7 had its moments. Although I still dislike the idea that Luke was even considering killing Ben.
I agree that 9 actually made me dislike the prior films. Almost nothing worked in that film.
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