But no, they decided to release a tons of content most of which turned out to be mediocre to bad.
I've mostly tried to remain optimistic and blame this almost entirely on Covid. Phase 4 would have only lasted 1.5 to 2 years instead of 3 to 4 if not for the shutdowns, and we'd probably already have an FF and X-Men movie if not for all of that. It was definitely VERY bad luck for Covid to start right as the Phase 4 films were supposed to release turning the phase from a brief interlude for the bench players to get some playing time into a 4-year slog that has made most critics assume that the MCU and superhero films in general are on the decline. I think those critics are wrong, but we'll see after the FF and X-Men finally hit.
Layering Disney Plus on top of that with Feige didn't help. Feige had almost no television production experience prior to Disney Plus, and almost every series feels like a 2-hour film stretched out into 6 or 8 hours. That's a formula that almost guarantees bad television.
But we can't blame Covid for ALL of the delays to the next A and B list hero films. They kept delaying films even up through the end of 2023 leaving us with the same C and D-listers. All will be forgiven if they nail the Fantastic Four, but that's one of the absolute hardest Marvel properties to do well. I'm skeptical, but I also hope Feige revives some of his magic and they kill it with that film.
Did y'all see that Nerdzoic had Warbird up for pre-order on his site?
Of course it sold out immediately (and it was only one per customer), but I wondered what the deal there was.
They should have just restarted the universe after the Endgame. That story is over, almost all of the famous and beloved actors are gone. Take a break for three\four years, think it over, find new young actors and start over.
I agree with most of this. Yes, a long break is what SHOULD have happened after Endgame, pandemic or no pandemic. Had that been the case, the last taste of MCU that would have been in the mouths of the fans would have been Endgame, that would have been five years ago now, and everyone, EVERYONE would have been eager for more superhero movies right now. Instead they see the trailer for whatever is coming out next and think, "Here we go again".
While recasting folks like Cap and Iron Man will be needed eventually, now is not the time. Nope, now is the time for the rest of Marvel's A-List (FF and X-Men) to shine. And with that long break, people would have been legitimately excited for more.
Unfortunately, even though a break is what should have happened, that was never going to be the case. Not when the corporate machine needs to crank out content continuously. The best thing that could have happened after Endgame was never even a consideration for Disney. If only Marvel were independently owned by one guy who had all the money he'll ever need and who was more concerned with getting the story right than going along for the sake of going along. I want to say like a George Lucas, but we know how that ended. Oh well.
Isn't recasting the main characters and/or rebooting the universe the very definition of the corporate machine cranking out content continuously? I'll be more impressed with the MCU if they stick with the timeline and allow characters to have stories that end, and don't use the multiverse to replace anyone who died or retired. The years since Endgame haven't been cohesive, but personally I don't think that's the primary problem - I don't need every character in the franchise to end up on a team together, and I think multiple independent storylines can work just fine. The main focus should be on letting creative people tell good stories - if that ends up with an Infinity Gauntlet-style throughline - great! But it shouldn't be the primary focus of the studio as a whole.
Marvel did not have a clear plan for the MCU post-Endgame, which is the real problem - we're five years after Endgame (yikes!) and that plan has still not really materialized beyond thinking it was going to be Kang. Basic questions like "does The Avengers continue to exist?" If so, who would be best to run it?
They lost their narrative throughline which when they killed their lead character they should have realized they'd need to replace. Who is the face of the MCU now?
Marvel did not have a clear plan for the MCU post-Endgame
Couldn't disagree more--it's just that most of us aren't a fan of the plan they did have which was to get the Marvel bench some playing time for unpredictable reasons when the plan was made because Covid stretched their 2-year plan for the bench into a 4-year drought that has led to everyone assuming Feige has no idea what he's doing and/or superhero movies are on the decline. Letting the bench cook for 2 years is more or less the hiatus people are asking for before moving back to the A and B-listers.
Also Marvel pretty much knew they were going to get Fox around 2017 and 2018, but they couldn't rely on it until it actually happened. I think Feige planned to leave some wiggle room to get the FF and X-Men intertwined into their plan, but again Covid ended up delaying them. We'd already have an FF movie if not for Covid, and I suspect we'd also have an X-Men movie either already released or more likely on the near horizon.
I’d be all for a hard reboot. The MCU was always piecemeal and even reactionary against the parts of the IP they didn’t have, and I’d like a more cohesive whole that also wasn’t reliant on the “Ultimate” universe and resultant asshole-jock takes on most of the main characters, especially Iron Man. I want humble recovering-alcoholic Tony, not narcissistic fascist bully Tony. Aaaaand a complete “world” with active supervillain threats on every level including the streets, instead of the Avengers coming off as a militarized assassination squad that meets once or twice a year to massacre Hydra and/or deal with whatever genocidal abomination Stark built in his hubris.
And I also want my Warbird figure.
I'm the biggest Marvel homer ever, so of course I'd watch it.... but I don't think that I want to ever see any reboot. I've already been through 4+ Batmen, 3+ Supermen, 3 Spider-Men, even 2 Hellboys! in my lifetime ... nothing kills my interest faster than a reboot. There are over 10,000 marvel comics characters. There is no excuse to ever have to do a reboot, in my opinion. If the decision is made to reboot then I think you have to completely pause the franchise for a minimum of 5 years before starting over, and I'd lean more towards 10. A reboot means what you have is stale and it's probably to better just stop altogether.
The stop/start that has happened over and over with DC movies properties is exactly why I have zero faith in them ever being any good. They've completely lost the benefit of the doubt for me at Warner Bros. I have no doubts that if that Superman doesn't do at least $1 billion that they'll fire James Gunn and start all over again. They have no patience to let anything play out or build anything up over time.
The X-Men franchise could be better for Marvel Studios than the Avengers franchise was if they do it right. However I also think they have to be realistic and lower their budgets and expectations to some degree. Not every movie can do $1 billion.
I think there was a plan for Black Panther to be a major player in the post End Game Avengers. Unfortunately, Boseman's untimely death, tanked those plans. Imo not recasting Boseman was a huge mistake. Black Panther is too important a character to be permanently sidelined.
@puckace Yes. They are all too important to permanently sideline. It’s not a good idea to end the stories of Black Panther, Iron Man, Steve Rogers, and Black Widow. There are still decades of comic stories to adapt for all of them.
I’ve always thought not recasting him or any of the characters is a mistake. They recast Rhodey mid stream and it worked out fine. They recast Banner mid stream and it worked out fine. Batman went from Keaton to Kilmer to Clooney and (quality of movies notwithstanding) everyone rolled with it. They recast Bond routinely and nobody blinks.
It’s unfortunate.
Personally, I like that the MCU has allowed some characters' stories to actually end, unlike the comics - it's refreshing to see meaningful deaths or retirements, and in some cases the passing on of a mantle in a way that matters because the OG isn't going to keep popping up. I feel differently about recasting around deaths or firings - recast away, but when the story is done, let it be done.
I can *almost* be convinced of a reboot with the argument that they now have basically the full Marvel Universe to play with, and it would be great to see them start from scratch with the full whole shebang. I'm just wary of an endless cycle of reboots.
Personally, I like that the MCU has allowed some characters' stories to actually end, unlike the comics - it's refreshing to see meaningful deaths or retirements, and in some cases the passing on of a mantle in a way that matters because the OG isn't going to keep popping up. I feel differently about recasting around deaths or firings - recast away, but when the story is done, let it be done.
This is exactly my thoughts. Iron Man and Cap were purposely written out to serve the story that was being told and it was the correct move for those characters. Each one of their endings had an impact on the audience. Bringing them back within this continuity would cheapen that. Now I said "this continuity" because I understand that these characters won't be off the big screen forever. When it does come time for a complete reboot of the franchise (whether that time is now or later is debatable, but it WILL happen), then go ahead and recast.
Black Panther is a completely different story. There was still so much more for T'Challa to do even though Boseman is no longer with us. As good as he was in the roll, they could have found a capable actor to carry on the story, the audience would have rolled with it, would have been rooting for this new actor to do well and it would have worked out fine. Killing off T'Challa was a major misstep and he should have been recast.
I agree that no one actor owns any of these characters. When the story warrants it, recast away.
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