100% what PC said. I'm confident a GR Retro wave was coming and got derailed by the EoV failing. I'd be very surprised if we never see any other figures on that card.

@h-bird I'll never hold out hope for Hasbro to do more than just basic assembly line bullshit. They don't really innovate. They don't put in the extra detail or extra effort (i.e. money) for most things. That's just how they operate. It's not a slight against them. It's just that even their most high quality collector line - Star Wars Black - can feel very minimum effort.
So I'm in no way ever going to hold out hope that anything approaching a regular/deluxe price ML figure will have a wired coat or cape. But it SHOULD.

What I think maybe is more likely, and that I will absolutely accept, is arms that pop out so you can swap the coat piece. Then just have the Blaze figure come with 'straight down' and 'flowing backward' coat options depending on if you want him standing or in riding/action poses. They should do this for Gambit as well.

@stephenwdavis  I'd argue that's a bad take. As a big Thor fan (i.e. I'm coming at this as someone that cares about getting Thor figures) Hasbro -has- managed plenty of Thor-related characters without doing Thor-specific waves, because Thor characters tend to fit in more generally than Ghost Rider characters. You can slot them into Avengers waves, Cosmic waves, movie waves, etc. And we've gotten Thor-related boxed sets and multi-packs. So that Hasbro 'has never given us a Thor comic wave' isn't really relevant because they've given us lots of Thor comic -figures-.
Ghost Rider and his particular allies and rogues gallery, is just harder to slot in. They don't really fit in with Avengers waves, cosmic waves, X-Men waves, Spider-Man waves, etc (not to mention it would send some collectors into a fury to get D-list GR villains instead of like.. Red Skull or whatever). In fact, the Strange Tales wave feels like the first time in a really long time we've gotten any themed wave where GR characters actually make sense.

It's doubly difficult if you take the position, as I do, that it's insulting to the actual fans of these characters to release them without their core defining accessories; bikes. I don't want a random new wave of GR figures that's just Vengeance, Blaze, Danny GR, Classic GR, blue GR -- all without their bikes. That's lame. BUT.. the characters that need bikes are THE Ghost Rider characters that would anchor a Ghost Rider wave.

So you either do this Strange Tales thing, where you can include GR characters but anchor with someone else - simultaneously releasing a bike set to bolster those characters, or you do multi-packs or something. So I'm still not sure we'll ever get a proper GR wave. Just.. not for the 'Thor didn't get one' kind of reason.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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@h-bird I'll never hold out hope for Hasbro to do more than just basic assembly line bullshit. They don't really innovate. They don't put in the extra detail or extra effort (i.e. money) for most things. That's just how they operate. It's not a slight against them. It's just that even their most high quality collector line - Star Wars Black - can feel very minimum effort.
So I'm in no way ever going to hold out hope that anything approaching a regular/deluxe price ML figure will have a wired coat or cape. But it SHOULD.

What I think maybe is more likely, and that I will absolutely accept, is arms that pop out so you can swap the coat piece. Then just have the Blaze figure come with 'straight down' and 'flowing backward' coat options depending on if you want him standing or in riding/action poses. They should do this for Gambit as well.

@stephenwdavis  I'd argue that's a bad take. As a big Thor fan (i.e. I'm coming at this as someone that cares about getting Thor figures) Hasbro -has- managed plenty of Thor-related characters without doing Thor-specific waves, because Thor characters tend to fit in more generally than Ghost Rider characters. You can slot them into Avengers waves, Cosmic waves, movie waves, etc. And we've gotten Thor-related boxed sets and multi-packs. So that Hasbro 'has never given us a Thor comic wave' isn't really relevant because they've given us lots of Thor comic -figures-.
Ghost Rider and his particular allies and rogues gallery, is just harder to slot in. They don't really fit in with Avengers waves, cosmic waves, X-Men waves, Spider-Man waves, etc (not to mention it would send some collectors into a fury to get D-list GR villains instead of like.. Red Skull or whatever). In fact, the Strange Tales wave feels like the first time in a really long time we've gotten any themed wave where GR characters actually make sense.

It's doubly difficult if you take the position, as I do, that it's insulting to the actual fans of these characters to release them without their core defining accessories; bikes. I don't want a random new wave of GR figures that's just Vengeance, Blaze, Danny GR, Classic GR, blue GR -- all without their bikes. That's lame. BUT.. the characters that need bikes are THE Ghost Rider characters that would anchor a Ghost Rider wave.

So you either do this Strange Tales thing, where you can include GR characters but anchor with someone else - simultaneously releasing a bike set to bolster those characters, or you do multi-packs or something. So I'm still not sure we'll ever get a proper GR wave. Just.. not for the 'Thor didn't get one' kind of reason.

My hope here is more to do with straightforward competitive pressure - now that McF appears to have introduced some wired cloth goods (I don't with what level of success), IF they stick around, I'd expect Hasbro to get in the game eventually. Of course it's not a 1-1 competition since McF isn't making 1/12 scale Marvel figures, but I think it definitely has an effect.

I'd be totally fine with the swappable coat option myself, but a wired coat would really sell it. If it's a reused motorcycle and Blaze is on a body that's also mostly reuse, I could see the wired coat being included - especially as they might not be positive Blaze will move units like a standard Ghost Rider. In that sense, I do think the ML team is pretty innovative - they continue to get characters and features into the line that the bean counters who run the show almost certainly have no interest in. I know that's not exactly what you meant, but I don't think the line gets to 20 years by being solely paint-by-numbers.

@h-bird  It's definitely not impossible for Hasbro to see what the likes of McFarlane and Jada are doing and want to ape some of that, or more likely to be forcibly dragged along so as not to look like they're producing outdated product.
I think the line getting by for 20 years precisely by being paint-by-numbers is exactly why the various folks directly in charge of the line have been able to get in those fan favorites and minor characters. They rarely seem to devote many actual resources into those figures. It seems to most often be something very easy to pass by the bean counters with 'it uses existing tooling.' After all, none of that 'innovation' has led to not releasing 20 Wolverines on the same body before then immediately updating that body and starting over. That allows them to release -characters- we might not otherwise get, but I'd caution against viewing that as innovation of any kind. Like I said, it's actually the opposite of innovation because it depends on this 're-use this body until people want to blow our headquarters up with little explosives in the shape of the Bucky Cap body' approach to figure design.

I HOPE, desperately, that companies like Jada coming along and not only actually innovating, but making higher value product at a lower or comparable price to what Hasbro is doing, forces them to re-think the level of profit they demand per unit. But like.. also.. I doubt it.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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@h-bird  It's definitely not impossible for Hasbro to see what the likes of McFarlane and Jada are doing and want to ape some of that, or more likely to be forcibly dragged along so as not to look like they're producing outdated product.
I think the line getting by for 20 years precisely by being paint-by-numbers is exactly why the various folks directly in charge of the line have been able to get in those fan favorites and minor characters. They rarely seem to devote many actual resources into those figures. It seems to most often be something very easy to pass by the bean counters with 'it uses existing tooling.' After all, none of that 'innovation' has led to not releasing 20 Wolverines on the same body before then immediately updating that body and starting over. That allows them to release -characters- we might not otherwise get, but I'd caution against viewing that as innovation of any kind. Like I said, it's actually the opposite of innovation because it depends on this 're-use this body until people want to blow our headquarters up with little explosives in the shape of the Bucky Cap body' approach to figure design.

I HOPE, desperately, that companies like Jada coming along and not only actually innovating, but making higher value product at a lower or comparable price to what Hasbro is doing, forces them to re-think the level of profit they demand per unit. But like.. also.. I doubt it.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. I'm definitely ready for a new Wolverine body, but that buck *ruled* when it debuted - it certainly felt innovative at the time to get the (up to then) best ever Wolverine body. They definitely got their money's worth out of it, but I wasn't mad about buying them. Face printing is somewhere I think you can fairly argue they've been at the front of the pack on, as far as innovation goes.

Quality/value-wise, I do think they've turned a corner after some lean times, though I'm sure others disagree. I just know we weren't getting that SHIELD set two years ago, and Odin would have cost $80. Some of that might be down to flagging sales, or competitive pressure, or some combination - I'm just glad to see it, and I hope it keeps up.

We're using the word in different ways, but I think figuring out how to keep the line going long enough to go this deep into the roster can be called innovative. How many lines run this long, and make this many characters from the IP? I recognize that the whole Marvel Handbook on a shelf isn't everyone's priority, so whatever tradeoffs are being made aren't going to be worth it to everyone. No disagreement though that plenty of releases are middle of the pack, or bare minimum (I'm looking at you, classic Vision with no sculpted details). But I'm just glad that, year after year, I can consistently look forward to 20-30 brand new Marvel characters getting made - some of those are going to be on old bodies, but some (like Dracula, Crystar, Power Princess, etc) mostly new. 

I'm not trying to play centrist here, but I think you can argue that Hasbro is both evolutionary and risk-averse. The line doesn't reach 20 years without real quality, but it also doesn't reach 20 years without prudent budget choices and character selection.

In the last six years alone, my opinion of Hasbro has been all over the map. I maintain that the 80th-anniversary figures were some of their best work. Then they overdid the Bucky Cap re-use and fell behind other companies and lines (including their own G.I. Joe line) in articulation. It's come full circle with smart re-use and unique sculpts dedicated to the right characters. My opinion of the Legends line is probably as high as it's been since 2018.

I think their character selection is generally good even if it's left me wanting recently. There's just too much source material to work with.

@h-bird  Don't misunderstand me; I loved (and still love) that updated Wolverine body they did. But if you peak behind the curtain in terms of lead times and all that, something a bit annoying becomes clear: They were actively working on the new NEW new Wolverine body while still releasing figures on the current body that they knew wouldn't even come out until just a few months before the new body. Whatever you think of that ethically or as a consumer, it's definitely not innovation.

You're absolutely right that the face printing has worked out really well, but I'm also mixed about that. I think that it turns out cheaper in the long run, which is why they started doing it. And I also recall people didn't like it at first because it tended to look a bit ass. Now, to be fair, the innovation is in how they made it work to the point where it's kind of preferred now by most people and toys that don't have it feel somehow cheaper. Fair play to them on that one, for sure.

I agree that we're probably talking around each other just a little bit. I don't disagree that making the line last is impressive and takes certain skills and intelligence in their jobs. I'll NEVER claim the ML team isn't good at what they do, and it's important to remember that they are always working within the confines of what upper management allows. At the same time, I think there are a lot of factors that result in ML lasting the way it has, and I just personally wouldn't classify 'innovative thinking' as one of those factors. In fact, I think the ability to put off and stifle innovation is kind of critical to the approach of repainting a blank body over and over again.

Again, I really want to stress that I'm not shitting on the ML team. As individuals I'm sure they're better at this than we'll ever know because they can never show off just how innovative or customer-focused they COULD be if stock prices and shareholder profits weren't a thing.

@tsi  In such a rare occurrence for a centrist.. I think you nailed it. And I'm also kind of all over the place with how I view Legends. Sometimes they blow me away (usually, for fuck's sake, on figures I don't really care about) and sometimes they really disappoint me in how much they cheap out on something, or just by making bad decisions. But that's probably true of most or everything I collect so it's not a unique complaint for Hasbro's ML team.

I really wish they did 90s classic cartoon related packaging for shows that didn't exist. Just styled in the Spider-Man, X-Men, FF, etc aesthetic. Thor, Captain America, Avengers, etc.

@derrabbi Imagine an 90s animated style DD retro series?