@renfield75 I will propose the same reason why team sets won't happen this way as when people ask about it for a HasLab - if they think the figures in a team will sell, they have plenty of retail options like a series of 2-packs (see Squadron Supreme) or an Amazon 5-pack, etc.
I think they will save this concept for things too big/pricey for retail, possibly items they actually tried to get a retailer to take on as an exclusive without success.
I definitely think Ketch 85th yes - and maybe parts of the Blackheart wave... maybe. I mean, Hellstrom was supposed to be part of the EoV package so he wouldn't have been in a wave. And the wave felt pretty cobbled together - so I think maybe Blackheart would have been a deluxe release or in a two pack with Lilith or maybe with Blaze. I feel like a lot of the recent comic book waves have been pieced together from other plans because the MCU support wave schedule has gotten dragged around the schedule and delayed so significantly that they've had to fill release windows with waves that I'm not sure they intended to. Like the wave with Cable and Ka-Zar ... Wolfsbane and Red Widow ... Dark pretend Thor and Ikaris... no theme to that one at all.
I'm not sure the comic BAF waves are the flagship of the line anymore, I think the retro card waves and the anniversary waves are the focus for comics and the BAF waves are more for MCU with some comics to fill in.
So you may be right that they had some MCU figures they expected to be adding in to the BAF waves, or a more GR focused lineup when they thought it would coincide with the HasLab.
So, something I was posting about in a different thread got me thinking... is there any chance that Hasbro could use this model to offer a stripped down and different version of the Engine of Vengeance vehicle at a much more reasonable direct to consumer price.
Hear me out. They could release a vehicle that looks similar to what they had designed for the HasLab, but without the moving gear shift, the lights and sounds all of the electronic bells and whistles - let it have rotating plastic wheels and snap on fire effects (but please keep the wall mountable feature, I love that) but make it cheaper. Sell it similar to how you are selling the G.I. Joe Jeep - $100 for the car... $125 if you toss in Robbie, maybe. Sell it direct to consumer in this format to gauge interest and not overproduce. They recoup some of the design investment they put in on EoV - but sell us a thing that's more practical for a wider group.
They can get around the - "you'll never get this if you don't pledge for the HasLab" threat/promise by admitting it is a different offering entirely and not the same thing - and they've already softened that threat by releasing a version of Goblin Queen and a version of Daimon Hellstrom anyway. I think it's doable, and is something they should think about.
😜
https://thefwoosh.com/community/marvel_board/2024-general-discussion/paged/160/#post-64234
What does the market for a stripped-down Engine of Vengeance even look like? I feel like Ramen Toys beat Hasbro to the punch on that one.
@tsi Except the Ramen Racer costs as much as the Haslab without any of the figures. There was no way I was going to risk buying in at the early bird price when they could have easily been shut down or failed to come to market and I hope all the people moaning about the EoV price get rocks in their shoes every day. I would happily get a made to order Hellcharger with an official Robbie.
I did go in on the Ramen Racer, and actually finally got a chance to open it last week despite getting it months ago (buying a house that needs a lot of work really delays what's important in life - I'll take Hellcharger pics and post them soon). It is fantastic, and impressive, and easily worth the price - especially coming from such a small operation. But Thwiptster is right - it basically comes out to the same price as the EoV. If the official one had funded - and especially if it hit all the tiers - it would have been a much better value. It'd be an interesting question for Ace (the Ramen guy) how much less he thinks he could make them if he stripped out all the bells and whistles.
I'm not sure Hasbro makes a stripped down Hellcharger at this point, but I'd be happy if they did for those who want it. I'm sure we'll get Robbie either way - hopefully sooner than later.
So, something I was posting about in a different thread got me thinking... is there any chance that Hasbro could use this model to offer a stripped down and different version of the Engine of Vengeance vehicle at a much more reasonable direct to consumer price.
😜
https://thefwoosh.com/community/marvel_board/2024-general-discussion/paged/160/#post-64234
I know... human thought is weird in that you can have an idea - and then when you continue to think about it, other factors occur to you that impact your thought process and change your outlook. I posted my pollyanna-blue sky thoughts here and then as I thought it through had more sobering (read: depressing) thoughts about the realities of that that I posted in the other thread. :shrug:
Tsi says:
What does the market for a stripped-down Engine of Vengeance even look like? I feel like Ramen Toys beat Hasbro to the punch on that one.
As for the market for a stripped down Engine of Vengeance - if you could sell the car without all of the moving gears and lights and sounds and just sell the plastic car with moving plastic wheels and flame effects for $100ish I think there could be a robust market for it.
There certainly seems to be a very healthy market for vehicles in that price range for G.I. Joe. The Ramen Toys offering was still $300. Get out something more affordable, you can get retail partners more onboard and more customers interested. There are reasons it could be more successful done that way.
But as I alluded to in the other thread G.I. Joe has advantages with it's vehicles that Marvel doesn't have - one is no licensing agreement siphoning off part of the profit making the margin tighter and another is built in re-use. Every vehicle the Joe brand has released at retail has already been released with a repaint version and sold again. That is not something that is viable with a Marvel Legends vehicle in the same way. So, it remains unlikely the EoV - even a simplified, cheaper version, will ever see a retail release, unfortunately.
@h-bird Yeah, the folks complaining about the EOV just did not grasp the economies of scale at work with Hasbro stuff. It was absolutely a better deal than basically any equivalent option on the market (i.e. one with the electronics and similar car options). I'm also skeptical they'd re-do the EOV in any capacity. I do agree that Robbie is almost a lock for some release within the forseeable future and I still think Mephisto and maybe even GQ are still on the table.
I really wonder if/how the EOV affects the upcoming Ghostbusters Haslab since that's almost certainly a 1/12 Ecto-1. I wonder if it will have electronics or not. Even if it was initially intended to, I could see them redesigning it in the meantime to strip them out to get he price lower and make it more likely to fund (because they probably didn't work up a physical model until after the EOV). We'll see later this month, but I'm very curious. If there was ever one that warranted lights and sounds, it'd be the Ecto. GB fans, though they aren't overwhelming figure collectors, do tend to go for high end Ecto replicas and cosplay items it seems.
I'm glad to hear the Ramen car came out so well, makes me more comfortable having dropped the money on the rerelease. I think that's my last really big purchase of the year and I was hoping I wouldn't regret it.
@tsi Except the Ramen Racer costs as much as the Haslab without any of the figures. There was no way I was going to risk buying in at the early bird price when they could have easily been shut down or failed to come to market and I hope all the people moaning about the EoV price get rocks in their shoes every day. I would happily get a made to order Hellcharger with an official Robbie.
Ah, my mistake. For some reason I thought the Ramen version was $100.
In that case, I can't understand why people championed the Ramen version right after the Hasbro one failed. Especially because Ramen's business model gives me the ick. They're not so much a third-party company as a stolen ideas factory.
@h-bird Ramen *is* doing a stripped-down version, and it’s still over $300 shipped. Now it can’t even double as a de-powered car for Blade or Punisher, either, unless you buy the plain car at a slightly cheaper price than the hellfire version. It’s infuriating and makes me even less interested in dropping that kind of money. I could probably talk myself into it if I could use the car in a variety of contexts for photography and displays, but stuck in one mode for that price is frustrating.
@tsi Except the Ramen Racer costs as much as the Haslab without any of the figures. There was no way I was going to risk buying in at the early bird price when they could have easily been shut down or failed to come to market and I hope all the people moaning about the EoV price get rocks in their shoes every day. I would happily get a made to order Hellcharger with an official Robbie.
Ah, my mistake. For some reason I thought the Ramen version was $100.
In that case, I can't understand why people championed the Ramen version right after the Hasbro one failed. Especially because Ramen's business model gives me the ick. They're not so much a third-party company as a stolen ideas factory.
Oh, at that price I would probably get two cars, despite the size. I would have bet Disney in their litigious nature would have sent a hefty cease and desist once Ramen started advertising a Robbie head that clearly stole someone else’s IP. I’m happy for the folks who bit the bullet and got the payoff, but it’s all leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
They're not so much a third-party company as a stolen ideas factory.
I have mixed feelings on it. Definitely their figures are barely skirting copyright all the time and I haven't gotten any of those. The vehicles at least there's some wiggle since a 60's charger or blacked out van with armor are popular choices for a few different franchises (specific paint schemes and accessory sets notwithstanding). And at least for myself I'm only getting the one that's *not* a hellcharger because I want the generic muscle car.
The tanks are inspired by Joe stuff, but do sport some more original design (I think the Amphisbaena is pretty different from old Joe stuff yeah?). My hope is they trend more in that direction where they fill a niche, but do it in their own style. I think Gridiron's add-ons to the WASP are sort of an example there. They've practically retrofitted that thing into a whole new vehicle. Not cheaply, of course, but impressive none the less.
I think the GB Haslab will be full of electronics - their Haslab base has proen they love that stuff.
Also, as great and appropriate as all the bells & whistles were on EoV, they are really there to justify the price - it's a way to make a product pop.
Hasbro is notorious for doing these types of "value adds" back to the days of Phantom Menace and the "talking chip" - in that case only done to rationalize the licensing cost.
@h-bird Ramen *is* doing a stripped-down version, and it’s still over $300 shipped. Now it can’t even double as a de-powered car for Blade or Punisher, either, unless you buy the plain car at a slightly cheaper price than the hellfire version. It’s infuriating and makes me even less interested in dropping that kind of money. I could probably talk myself into it if I could use the car in a variety of contexts for photography and displays, but stuck in one mode for that price is frustrating.
I'm surprised they aren't offering the flame effects as an add-on to the car like they did originally - that seems like a a mistake not to give people both options. Ace is pretty responsive to feedback, I wouldn't be surprised to see that change. The reissue with the chrome black pieces looks fantastic too, if I could buy those as an accessory pack only I would.
I think calling Ramen a stolen ideas factory is unfair. I guess I'm biased because I'm just glad someone came through with another option after the EoV failed, but the execution on their version of the Hellcharger is easily as good as Hasbro's would have been - and possibly better in some ways (though not as good of a value without figures, etc). It's definitely infringing on the IP, but not any more than so many other 3rd-party accessory makers. And in a world where you have things like CT Toys that just straight up steal/copy molds, Ramen doing ground-up design and manufacturing seems quite a bit different.
I also had a bad taste in my mouth after the EoV campaign was all said and done, but it certainly wasn't from the party who came through with a backup option. Hasbro was not without fault (I maintain the Early Bird gambit killed the whole thing) but the whole affair was just so, so gross - in some ways I feel a lot of that toxicity never left. There's a reason I'll cling to the Fwoosh until my dying day - even in disagreement here it rarely even comes close to the level of ick on reddit/social media/etc.
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